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Malik's Reaction on Being Scratched 2nite

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Old
01-07-2008, 09:04 AM
  #76
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On the Sather years--It took a long time for Glen to get a clue here. Pre-lockout there was too little attention paid to the draft and player development. We were very lucky that Lundqvist panned out the way he did. Post-lockout we've stocked up on a number of very good prospects--an acceptable number has made its way to the NHL--though not all are still here. It seems however that there are a number of top prospects in Hartford all competing for the same premium ice time and while the team plays well together and wins more often than not--most of them as individuals have not taken the next step to separate themselves from each other. Jessiman is just showing that he's a legit AHL player. Bourret and Korpikoski are not wowing anybody. Montoya may be regressing. Apart from Dawes a smallish type goalscorer--maybe not the most rounded and Moore a much larger all around forward none of the Wolfpack's forwards seem ready to push for a spot--that is unless we see the likes of a Byers pushing either an Orr or a Hollweg off the 4th line. There is Anisimov and Cherepanov. Sauer has had a so-so season and Baranka is injured again. What I'm saying is I'm not sure what we're going to get out of all of this. With so many of our players going UFA in the summer--to make any big moves like we did last year probably means a few of these prospects are going to be Rangers next year.

Now as for Malik, Mara and Strudwick I don't see how any of them--the way they've played this year fit in. At this point Malik--easily the fans most abused player is 32.
He does not deserve a pay raise and it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't want out of here. At his age I would say his days in the NHL are numbered--maybe a couple more seasons somewhere else. If anyone of the three were to stay I'd rather it be Mara--who is 28, has size and skill--though he's not using either enough--and at $3 mil he definitely does not deserve more. Strudwick at 32 is old, slow and a borderline NHL/AHL player. We can do better than him and honestly I'd rather that Baranka replaced him now.

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01-07-2008, 09:09 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
Right off the top of my head how about the Devils, the Ducks and the Canes. None of those teams had a Crosby, Lemeuix (not including Claude), or Gretzky. All 3 teams had solid to great goaltending. The Ducks and the Devils had a corp of d-men that was excellent. All 3 teams had a good group of forwards (not much better then what we have right now).




Yeah just like he got unlucky that the previous franchise goaltender (Blackburn) suffered a freak injury that killed his career. If Blackburn doesn't get injured we don't waste the Montoya pick and probably could have ended up drafting a great forward. You could also say that he got lucky that Staal fell to him. I will counter by saying we got unlucky with all the concussion problems our d-men have been having over the last couple of years. Bottom line -- luck runs both ways. If Blackburn had recoverd and the Rangers hadn't been forced to draft Montoya where would this team be?

Finally as to your question -- why would I advocate firing a gm whose taken an organization that he inherited with no prospects whatsoever and built a fairly solid prospect base. When Sather took over how many players under the age of 25 did we have on the team? How about in the system? Look at our AHL teams going back to 1999 and 2000. We had a bunch of career AHL'ers with very few legit prospects. Although this organization certainly lacks top end offensive talent we are strong in net, have a very solid group of young d-men, and have a good group of forwards. You don't need to look any further than the Pack and the # of players that we had at the WJC to confirm that.

If you are equating success with winning the Cup then most every GM in the NHL should be fired. There are a bunch of teams that haven't won squat in the last 10 years -- does this mean all of their GM's failed? I am looking for constant improvement in the standings at the NHL and AHL level. Over the last 3 years we've certainly seen an improvement at every level. Why fire Sather?

I don't have time right now to answer point by point but I will tonight.

One thing concerning luck. The Rangers have been incredibly lucky on the injury front in recent memory despite some fans moaning about it. When you look around the league at which team has lost important players for any length of time, very few have fared as luckily as the Rangers.

I also know that it is not fashionable to say it but Blackburn didn't impress me in the least.

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01-07-2008, 09:33 AM
  #78
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Unlike past years this team doesn't have too much problems. It is well balanced and I am sure will come back to normal pretty soon after unsuccessful road trip. The only problem we have is uneducated and sometimes outright moronic fans that know very little about game of hockey. The latest story with Malik is a good example. Being unable in principle to know the difference between good and bad defenseman they jump on the guy out frustration the way they did with Tom Poti who has already proved them wrong with his career of above average NHL blueliner. Or Sandis Ozolinch who is now with Sharks and his current play is something any of NYR Ds should learn from.
If Sather has anything left in his head he and his coaches should apologize to the guy and get him back in the lineup. As for fans, I would treat them as a mushrooms: keep'em in the dark and feed'em crap. They deserve no better. This thread is good indication of it.


Last edited by 94now: 01-07-2008 at 09:39 AM.
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01-07-2008, 09:49 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Unlike past years this team doesn't have too much problems. It is well balanced and I am sure will come back to normal pretty soon after unsuccessful road trip. The only problem we have is uneducated and sometimes outright moronic fans that know very little about game of hockey. The latest story with Malik is a good example. Being unable in principle to know the difference between good and bad defenseman they jump on the guy out frustration the way they did with Tom Poti who has already proved them wrong with his career of above average NHL blueliner. Or Sandis Ozolinch who is now with Sharks and his current play is something any of NYR Ds should learn from.
If Sather has anything left in his head he and his coaches should apologize to the guy and get him back in the lineup. As for fans, I would treat them as a mushrooms: keep'em in the dark and feed'em crap. They deserve no better. This thread is good indication of it.
Wow...there are fans who aren't students of the game? There's a friggin' surprise.


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01-07-2008, 10:00 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Or Sandis Ozolinch who is now with Sharks and his current play is something any of NYR Ds should learn from.
So you were happy with Ozo's play as an NYR?

Fan's aren't responding to a player's resume, and they can't predict how a player might play in the future with a different team. If you don't think the level of Malik's play is a problem, then we disagree. Yah, some people take it too far. I fail to see how you giving those fans the same treatment they give Malik is constructive an in way.

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01-07-2008, 10:43 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I don't have time right now to answer point by point but I will tonight.

One thing concerning luck. The Rangers have been incredibly lucky on the injury front in recent memory despite some fans moaning about it. When you look around the league at which team has lost important players for any length of time, very few have fared as luckily as the Rangers.

I also know that it is not fashionable to say it but Blackburn didn't impress me in the least.
Fine, we can continue this tonite. As to the injuries I disagree. Name any other team that has lost two high 1st round draft choices in the last ten years to career ending injuires like we have. Blackburn had his flaws but to play in the NHL at his age and play as well as he did showed alot of promise for a very productive NHL career! Was he the second coming of Patrick Roy? We will never know that answer!

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01-07-2008, 10:58 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
So you were happy with Ozo's play as an NYR?
In '06 playoffs, no. In Nov. 2006, yes.
You're not going to build anything if you question your materials every time. I, for instance, do not like the way Staal and Girardi play now. Staal poor ability to block shots often gets him out of play. Girardi lacks patience with premium NHL forwards. Do I want them out? Hell, no. They are the future of our defense. Does that make them better then Malik? No. Malik is an experienced veteran that had those deficiencies past him years ago. He can be an example for both Mark and Dan.

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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Fan's aren't responding to a player's resume, and they can't predict how a player might play in the future with a different team.
I know. That is what pisses me off. I happen to believe that true fan of sport, should not use that as an excuse. I am sorry for being rude and condescending.

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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
If you don't think the level of Malik's play is a problem, then we disagree.
Malik does not play the way he use to. Neither does Shanahan, for example. That doesn't mean that any stinker could go after Marek or Brendan. Even our rivals do not dare that.


Last edited by 94now: 01-07-2008 at 11:04 AM.
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01-07-2008, 11:11 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Two points:

If Sather is not running the drafts, why is he here? If Clark has been doing the damage, why is he still here? Responsibility for failure should always be placed at the top.

I never argued potentially who may or may not make it. Sanguinetti and Anisimov might turn out to be great but they may turn out to be busts. Every NHL team has players in the system that they hope will make it big.

The fact is, that the ones who have shown up have been very disappointing. Prucha, Callahan, Dawes, Jessiman not to mention the ones that haven't shown up like Falardeau.

I admit that if some of the others do make it then Sather will have done a good job. To date he has been an abject bust.

If Sather's name was something else he would have been gone a long time ago. He is living off a phony GM legend.

How many years would you give Sather to prove himself?
I am sure Sather has some say in the drafts, but Gordie Clark running the table is OK in my book. The guy has drafted some tremendous hockey players over the years. As far as doing the damage....What damage?

I wouldn't exactly call Prucha a bust. He has put together a couple of pretty good seasons, and even though he is having a hard time this season finding the back of the net, for a 7th or 8th round pick(whenever it was it was late), the guy to me is a gem.

Sather also moved up in the draft to pick up Staal, a move which so far looks like it has been the right one. Staal is definately showing at a very young age that he certainly belongs here. One of the better young defenseman in the game.


In Henrik, they have arguably a top three netminder in the game today. What was he drafted 7th round or something? Granted Christer Rockstrom probably had something to do with that, but still...Team would kill to have this guy. He is an excellent pick that was taken during Sather's tenure.


Onto Montoya, who IMO is another very solid prospect, and ranked as the highest goaltender available at the time. Plus the team certainly needed that position filled after the Blackburn injury. IMO a very solid pick.

How about Dubinsky in the 2nd round or whater he was? He may only have put up 13 point this season so far, but this kid clearly belongs in the NHL. He outworks most of his opponents on a nightly basis. He is a bull down low, goes into high traffic areas, he isn't afraid to defend himself or his teammates, he is a good skater who has good size. He makes plays everygame. And just becuase the points aren't racking up for him so far, IMO he is one of the most exciting prospects in the system.

Still in Hartford Brodie Dupont, who was drafted I believe in the 2nd or 3rd round. At the time the knock on the guy was his inability to find the back of the net. After he was drafted he blossomed into an excellent leader for the Hitment, and also found his scoring touch. Still developing in Hartford, but will eventually crack the lineup.

Anisimov, maybe the Rangers got lucky he fell to the 2nd round. The guy was ranked as high as 15th overall I believe by some of the scouting services in 06.

When looking at the players drafted during his tenure, IMO the Rangers have made leaps and bounds since he has come here. Not just through the drafts, but in the moves he has made also. The Avery trade was one of the best moves I have seen a GM make for this team. The Jagr trade for who Anson Carter? A total steal, and while he was at it how about getting Wash to pay half of the guys salary since he has been here. That was Sathers doing, and...the results were one of the most successful players the team has had in the last 20 years. A guy that broke Graves scoring recored, and the guy most responsible for getting thris club back into the playoffs for the past 2 seasons.

The list of good moves he has made goes on and on here.

Roszival- FA signing a guy that was mediocre in Pitt, and became the Rangers top defenceman.
Girardi- FA signing, undrafted gem.
Jagr- Via trade and arguably the most talented player to ever wear a Ranger uniform. Plus he was able to succeed here where countless talented other players failed
Nylander- I believe via free agency...paired with Jagr was arguable the biggest impact center the team has had since Gretz retired 11 seasons ago.
Straka- Excellent signing, works great with Jagr, hustles his arse off, and Slats got his for what $3,000,000?
Shanny- UFA signing...His actions speak for themselves.

The list goes on and on...and just becuase the team has had a hard time scoring goals this season, they are still very much in the race, and IMO far better off than their record suggests.

But to me, i just don't understand the Sather hate here. He has build a solid team in NY, with a salary cap that makes it extremely hard to keep players happy enough to want to play under this type of pressure. IMO Glen Sather has been one of the best things to happen to this club in the past ten seasons.

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01-07-2008, 11:59 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunklee View Post
trade malik + something for adam foote, thanks
Mannnn....Trade him for some Nachos.









...With Cheese.

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01-07-2008, 12:02 PM
  #85
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Mannnn....Trade him for some Nachos.









...With Cheese.
The cheese will cost a 7th rounder.

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01-07-2008, 12:24 PM
  #86
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Good, can we trade him and get Ward back?

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01-07-2008, 01:23 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
If i were him, i would DEMAND a trade. I would have my agent kick Sather's door down and DEMAND a trade.
He doesn't have to, I'm sure he's being shopped. Problem is, NO ONE WANTS HIM!

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Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
If Renney had any real guts he would bench Jagr already!
Amen Brother!

Too many times I've seen him loose the puck, then hook the guy and take a bad penalty rather than skate after him. That and his unwillingness to skate hard to get back and play defense, except occasionally, is enough. It's not fair to hold everyone on the team to a certain standard, except the Captain, who is supposed to be leading by example.

He's not benched because Jagr wouldn't react positively and would make a horrible situation.

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01-07-2008, 01:28 PM
  #88
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Bench Jagr?

I don't think any coach in the history of sports would do that (OK, there may be a couple, but 95%+ would not). Should Jagr sit a couple shifts and get a 15 minute game? Perhaps. Sit out a couple PPs? Perhaps. That's about it though.

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01-07-2008, 01:33 PM
  #89
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I love how you guys allow Chosen to completely derail you from your points and topics to only agrue the stupid tangents he wants to argue.

I assume your point about Sather is that he isn't being held accountable for his poor 1st 4 years. Wrong. And Emphatic "No".

Do you remember the "Fire Sather" chants? Do you remember the fans and media trying to run him out of town as an angry mob? Did you read countless threads here or anywhere completely tearing Sather apart?

Sounds like accountability to me and it sounds like just about the same treatment Malik is getting. Same chants, same articles, same discussions. The only difference is Sather turned his game around. He is getting his job done now. We don't for get the pre-lockout years and we really don't forgive him for it. Like Malik, Sather tried to do too much (win the cup with a horrible team). To continue the analogy, Sather "turned over" tons of prospects and decent players for garbage... teams constantly converted on Sather's bad decisions. Then Sather got back to basics, stopped trying to please the fanbase and forgot about the cup for a few years. Suddenly the boos stopped.

You make a valid point about no franchise forwards in the system but you underestimate the value Sather has found in the draft, exaggerate the situation toward the negative. You skip over Sanguinette, Anisimov and a handful of others to make your point sound better. What was it you said before? When you have to exaggerate to make a point you don't really have a point at all? hmmm.

Look, I know you hate the way the fans treat Malik, but it's nothing new and its nothing different. His attitude doesn't help the situation. Maybe he's acting appropiately but the fact is it aggitates the fans even more. You don't understand why Girardi is getting a pass for his slipping play. It's simple, Girardi still plays as hard as he can every night, every shift. He makes enough smart plays to convince you that his bad ones are the exception, not the other way around. He tries every second on the ice. New York appreciates that. Malik committs 3 or 4 mortal sins every game and that is why the fans turn on him. Don't hustle, turn the puck over and complain about the fans... that's the recipe for a hostle fan base.

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01-08-2008, 08:29 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
I am sure Sather has some say in the drafts, but Gordie Clark running the table is OK in my book. The guy has drafted some tremendous hockey players over the years. As far as doing the damage....What damage?

I wouldn't exactly call Prucha a bust. He has put together a couple of pretty good seasons, and even though he is having a hard time this season finding the back of the net, for a 7th or 8th round pick(whenever it was it was late), the guy to me is a gem.

Sather also moved up in the draft to pick up Staal, a move which so far looks like it has been the right one. Staal is definately showing at a very young age that he certainly belongs here. One of the better young defenseman in the game.


In Henrik, they have arguably a top three netminder in the game today. What was he drafted 7th round or something? Granted Christer Rockstrom probably had something to do with that, but still...Team would kill to have this guy. He is an excellent pick that was taken during Sather's tenure.


Onto Montoya, who IMO is another very solid prospect, and ranked as the highest goaltender available at the time. Plus the team certainly needed that position filled after the Blackburn injury. IMO a very solid pick.

How about Dubinsky in the 2nd round or whater he was? He may only have put up 13 point this season so far, but this kid clearly belongs in the NHL. He outworks most of his opponents on a nightly basis. He is a bull down low, goes into high traffic areas, he isn't afraid to defend himself or his teammates, he is a good skater who has good size. He makes plays everygame. And just becuase the points aren't racking up for him so far, IMO he is one of the most exciting prospects in the system.

Still in Hartford Brodie Dupont, who was drafted I believe in the 2nd or 3rd round. At the time the knock on the guy was his inability to find the back of the net. After he was drafted he blossomed into an excellent leader for the Hitment, and also found his scoring touch. Still developing in Hartford, but will eventually crack the lineup.

Anisimov, maybe the Rangers got lucky he fell to the 2nd round. The guy was ranked as high as 15th overall I believe by some of the scouting services in 06.

When looking at the players drafted during his tenure, IMO the Rangers have made leaps and bounds since he has come here. Not just through the drafts, but in the moves he has made also. The Avery trade was one of the best moves I have seen a GM make for this team. The Jagr trade for who Anson Carter? A total steal, and while he was at it how about getting Wash to pay half of the guys salary since he has been here. That was Sathers doing, and...the results were one of the most successful players the team has had in the last 20 years. A guy that broke Graves scoring recored, and the guy most responsible for getting thris club back into the playoffs for the past 2 seasons.

The list of good moves he has made goes on and on here.

Roszival- FA signing a guy that was mediocre in Pitt, and became the Rangers top defenceman.
Girardi- FA signing, undrafted gem.
Jagr- Via trade and arguably the most talented player to ever wear a Ranger uniform. Plus he was able to succeed here where countless talented other players failed
Nylander- I believe via free agency...paired with Jagr was arguable the biggest impact center the team has had since Gretz retired 11 seasons ago.
Straka- Excellent signing, works great with Jagr, hustles his arse off, and Slats got his for what $3,000,000?
Shanny- UFA signing...His actions speak for themselves.

The list goes on and on...and just becuase the team has had a hard time scoring goals this season, they are still very much in the race, and IMO far better off than their record suggests.

But to me, i just don't understand the Sather hate here. He has build a solid team in NY, with a salary cap that makes it extremely hard to keep players happy enough to want to play under this type of pressure. IMO Glen Sather has been one of the best things to happen to this club in the past ten seasons.
I have no problems with his work with free agents, only drafting. The bulk of what you point to as drafting skills is at best unproven so far.

This notion that the team is so good is also different than what I am seeing on the ice. They look like a slightly better than average team and considering that the major part of their offensive players are near the end of the line, my view of their future is dimmer than yours.

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01-08-2008, 08:47 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
Give it a rest, Chosen! Sather is far from the worst GM in the league. If any apology is necessary it should come from Malik for stealing $3,000,000 this season and whining about his deserved demotion.

Sather's draft philosphy has been building this team from the goalie out. If you look at this team we are set in goal and have a good young corp of defensman. I agree that there have been no franchise forwards drafted other than the 2002 draft who would you have drafted?
If building this team from the goalie out was his goal, why is his current starter a 6th round pick?

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01-08-2008, 08:51 AM
  #92
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If building this team from the goalie out was his goal, why is his current starter a 6th round pick?
Because his 10th overall starter is retired and his 6th overall starter is currently developing in the AHL.

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01-08-2008, 08:55 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
I love how you guys allow Chosen to completely derail you from your points and topics to only agrue the stupid tangents he wants to argue.
Yeah, let's stay on topic. Malik sucks. Let's have 5 more threads this week saying Malik sucks. Let's stay on topic people.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
I assume your point about Sather is that he isn't being held accountable for his poor 1st 4 years. Wrong. And Emphatic "No".

Do you remember the "Fire Sather" chants? Do you remember the fans and media trying to run him out of town as an angry mob? Did you read countless threads here or anywhere completely tearing Sather apart?

Sounds like accountability to me and it sounds like just about the same treatment Malik is getting. Same chants, same articles, same discussions. The only difference is Sather turned his game around. He is getting his job done now. We don't for get the pre-lockout years and we really don't forgive him for it. Like Malik, Sather tried to do too much (win the cup with a horrible team). To continue the analogy, Sather "turned over" tons of prospects and decent players for garbage... teams constantly converted on Sather's bad decisions. Then Sather got back to basics, stopped trying to please the fanbase and forgot about the cup for a few years. Suddenly the boos stopped.

You make a valid point about no franchise forwards in the system but you underestimate the value Sather has found in the draft, exaggerate the situation toward the negative. You skip over Sanguinette, Anisimov and a handful of others to make your point sound better. What was it you said before? When you have to exaggerate to make a point you don't really have a point at all? hmmm.
Maybe you missed the point where I clearly wrote that if these guys turn out to be good then he will have done a good job. hmmmmmm.

Sather was saved from his own stupidity by the lockout. You make it seem like he had some sort of revelation about how to manage. He had no choice. He was no longer able to be downright stupid because of the confines of the cap.

When he couldn't be the same kind of stupid in Edmonton he was a horrendous GM for a decade. Sather is one of the best myths in the game. He stepped in **** when Gretzky and Messier dropped in his lap. The two greatest players ever together on a team and he won as a coach with them. Before coming to NY he had exactly one good draft in his entire NHL career as a GM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
Look, I know you hate the way the fans treat Malik, but it's nothing new and its nothing different. His attitude doesn't help the situation. Maybe he's acting appropiately but the fact is it aggitates the fans even more. You don't understand why Girardi is getting a pass for his slipping play. It's simple, Girardi still plays as hard as he can every night, every shift. He makes enough smart plays to convince you that his bad ones are the exception, not the other way around. He tries every second on the ice. New York appreciates that. Malik committs 3 or 4 mortal sins every game and that is why the fans turn on him. Don't hustle, turn the puck over and complain about the fans... that's the recipe for a hostle fan base.
This last section is utter nonsense. To say that Malik doesn't try is just plain stupid unless you are saying that Sather, Renney and all of the Rangers are blathering idiots who can't see what you think you see.

Little guys always look like they are trying because their legs have to churn to gain as much ice as larger players do with less strides. This is just plain physics.

If Giradi is playing much better than Malik this year why is his +/- so much worse? The excuse for these stats used to be that Malik is saved by playing with Jagr. What is the reasoning now?

This notion that Malik commits multiple mortal sins, if true, would be evident in statistics. Numbers just don't lie. People's perceptions can be off but numbers are facts. Why isn't he a huge minus if he is playing the way you say?

Girardi is given a pass for two reasons. He is young and he has added an offensive side to his game. He will be a better defenseman than Malik. Right now he just isn't playing well no matter how much you prefer his style over Malik's.

Would I rather have Girardi than Malik? Of course. Do I think that Malik is as bad as you? No. It is for this reasoning that you and a few others have a problem with what I post on this topic. I'm sorry that I can't always follow groupthink. I have a different opinion than you. Can you imagine that? I don't feel the need to pile on when I think it is undeserved. Blasphemy.

I accept that there will be endless threads bashing Malik. You're going to have to accept that not everyone has to join these threads with hearty endorsements of the mob idea. I am allowed to have a contrary opinion.

Numbers are facts. Observations are opinions. I will continue to voice my opinions until the Mods decide otherwise. Whether you feel my points are tangential is meaningless to me.

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01-08-2008, 10:58 AM
  #94
JerseyRangers
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If building this team from the goalie out was his goal, why is his current starter a 6th round pick?
Do the names Dan Blackburn and Al Montoya mean anything? The Rangers have spent two first round draft choices in the last decade on goalies. Whats that tell you?

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01-08-2008, 11:17 AM
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Do the names Dan Blackburn and Al Montoya mean anything? The Rangers have spent two first round draft choices in the last decade on goalies. Whats that tell you?
It tells me that he has made mistakes. I don't think goalies should ever be taken that high. If you look around the league the vast majority of the starting goalies were not high draft picks.

It is much easier to see a blue chip forward make it in the NHL, as projected, as opposed to a blue chip goalie striking gold. I loved when the announcers at the NHL draft ridiculed Sather for taking Montoya when he did. You never hear announcers goof on a GM in any sport like they openly laughed at Sather that day.

Sorry for not responding to your other post, as promised. Some personal things came up.

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01-08-2008, 11:50 AM
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Chosen...

without arguing +/- much, I will point this out. In past years Malik spent a majority of his ice time with Jagr. He also spent a lot of that ice time against top lines (while with Jagr). The plusses, well, we know where they come from.

This season, the strategy has been somewhat different. Girardi has faced a lot of the top competition. Some of that has been with Betts out there (few goals and therefore few plusses), and I think somewhere in the middle Drury was facing some competition (again, few goals), and Jagr has not been putting up the plusses.

I'm not trying to get into a debate on the +/- again, but I thought I'd throw out something that is close to fact and not wage much of an opinion out there.

I will say, though, that the minuses are racking up because there would have to be a heck of a lot of goals at even strength to get Girardi to around a +10/+15, which is where Malik likely was at the midpoint the last couple season. I'd gather that overall the team has slipped in terms of +/- this season compared to the last two, and I don't know if I'd put a lot of that blame on the defensemen.

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01-08-2008, 12:14 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
It tells me that he has made mistakes. I don't think goalies should ever be taken that high. If you look around the league the vast majority of the starting goalies were not high draft picks.

It is much easier to see a blue chip forward make it in the NHL, as projected, as opposed to a blue chip goalie striking gold. I loved when the announcers at the NHL draft ridiculed Sather for taking Montoya when he did. You never hear announcers goof on a GM in any sport like they openly laughed at Sather that day.

Sorry for not responding to your other post, as promised. Some personal things came up.
Here is a list of 1st round goalies in the league who start:

MAF
Lehtonen
Cam Ward
Toivenen
Leclaire
DiPietro
Biron
Luongo
JS Giguere
Brodeur
Kolzig

Up and comers:
Carey Price (real soon)
Justin Pogge (soon)
Bernier(soon)
Tuuka Rask
Coery Schneider
Al Montoya
Riku Helenius
Leland Irving


There are also a # who have been considered good/great for some season's ncluding:
Dan Cloutier
Jocelyn Thibault
Brian Boucher

So almost half the leagues starters are 1st round picks. In a year or two that # will probably be over half.

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01-08-2008, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
It tells me that he has made mistakes. I don't think goalies should ever be taken that high. If you look around the league the vast majority of the starting goalies were not high draft picks.

It is much easier to see a blue chip forward make it in the NHL, as projected, as opposed to a blue chip goalie striking gold. I loved when the announcers at the NHL draft ridiculed Sather for taking Montoya when he did. You never hear announcers goof on a GM in any sport like they openly laughed at Sather that day.

Sorry for not responding to your other post, as promised. Some personal things came up.
How about Pascal LeClaire, MA Fluery, Roberto Luongo, Carey Price and Dippy -- to name a few. Seems to be two schools of thought on goalies. You either go for a pretty sure thing by drafting them early or you hope to get a late round steal (Lundqvist or Hasek). As to Montoya don't forget that at the time most people still expected Blackburn to come back -- that was the head scratcher. Obviously Sather and company had their doubts to this and felt they had to take a goalie. Can't blame him for that one!

Doesn't really matter. Your opinion is that Sather has f---ed the pooch in his time as a GM. I actually think he's done a pretty good job. You think most of the fans are too harsh on Malik. I think he's earned the treatment. I have no problem with people who have different opinions as long as they are respectful of other people that may disagree with them. I actually enjoy our conversations -- you make good points (even if I think they are far fetched)!

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01-08-2008, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Here is a list of 1st round goalies in the league who start:

MAF
Lehtonen
Cam Ward
Toivenen
Leclaire
DiPietro
Biron
Luongo
JS Giguere
Brodeur
Kolzig

Up and comers:
Carey Price (real soon)
Justin Pogge (soon)
Bernier(soon)
Tuuka Rask
Coery Schneider
Al Montoya
Riku Helenius
Leland Irving


There are also a # who have been considered good/great for some season's ncluding:
Dan Cloutier
Jocelyn Thibault
Brian Boucher

So almost half the leagues starters are 1st round picks. In a year or two that # will probably be over half.
Wow! You spent alot more time on this they I can afford right now. Good job -- that's a pretty good list and some really good names on it!

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01-08-2008, 12:17 PM
  #100
DontStepanMe
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Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
Wow! You spent alot more time on this they I can afford right now. Good job -- that's a pretty good list and some really good names on it!
yeah completely bored at work

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