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04-02-2004, 11:54 AM
  #1
Karl Pilkington
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Nhl $$$ Info

Hey everyone, I'm in a Data Management course right now and our culminating project requires the we prove something by collecting data to back up our point.

The question I'm trying to prove: Should the NHl have a salary cap; if so how big should it be?

I'm basing my answer on the following info:
- Team salaries including the highest paid player on the team, the average salary per player on each team, and the average salary in the NHL.
- Ticket sales, advertising, etc... where they make money.
- A lot more stuff you guys prolly don't care too much about...

What I need is a little help... do any of you know where, or even if, I can find individual team revenue statistics? Or are those undisclosed (which would suck...)?

Thanks.

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04-02-2004, 12:07 PM
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Zhackpot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoseTheo
Hey everyone, I'm in a Data Management course right now and our culminating project requires the we prove something by collecting data to back up our point.

The question I'm trying to prove: Should the NHl have a salary cap; if so how big should it be?

I'm basing my answer on the following info:
- Team salaries including the highest paid player on the team, the average salary per player on each team, and the average salary in the NHL.
- Ticket sales, advertising, etc... where they make money.
- A lot more stuff you guys prolly don't care too much about...

What I need is a little help... do any of you know where, or even if, I can find individual team revenue statistics? Or are those undisclosed (which would suck...)?

Thanks.
player salaries are available at NHLPA. It would take a little leg work but you could call each team, tell them you represent an advertising firm and you have a client interested in advertising with the club and ask for a rate sheet and availability for the next NHL season. Don't forget to inquire about possible promotions and the costs for those.

Same thing with luxury suites.

This would give you an approximate idea of what their advertising revenues of each team is. Ticket prices can be found on the team websites.

Here's a link to attendance. http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2004

Hope this helps you get started.

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04-02-2004, 12:20 PM
  #3
Other Dave
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NHL revenues are Top Sekrit. Good luck!

Having said that, Dubi Silverstein has done a lot of the legwork you're talking about in his blog, Ordinary Least Square.

Other Dave

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04-02-2004, 04:12 PM
  #4
craig1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoseTheo
I'm basing my answer on the following info:

A few notes for your project....First off, I'm not being harsh, I'm just looking at it from a validity standpoint:

Quote:
- Team salaries including the highest paid player on the team, the average salary per player on each team, and the average salary in the NHL.
Keep in mid that Operating Costs are more than just salaries:
-You have Personnel costs involved with Management, Marketing Dept, Concession Workers, Ushers, etc.
-You also have Transportation costs, Insurance Costs, Utilities, and other overhead involved.
-Also, you will have to figure in Ownerships Required Minimal Rate of Return based on the Riskiness of investment (Or Beta, based on Standard Deviation). This will help determine each teams required revenue, based on expenses. This will differ for each team based on: Amount of intial Investment, and Current overhead/Operational Costs. I'm not sure how that could be done, given that Risk is unknown, but greater than your baseline or Market Risk

Quote:
- Ticket sales, advertising, etc... where they make money.
They also take in Revenue from Liscensing and Merchandise sales, Concessions, etc.....Those figures are held very close to the vest by the NHL, albeit, it is less than the other 3 Major North American sports.


Quote:
- A lot more stuff you guys prolly don't care too much about...
I can play Devils Advocate more for you if you like!

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04-02-2004, 04:46 PM
  #5
Karl Pilkington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig1
Keep in mid that Operating Costs are more than just salaries:
-You have Personnel costs involved with Management, Marketing Dept, Concession Workers, Ushers, etc.
-You also have Transportation costs, Insurance Costs, Utilities, and other overhead involved.
-Also, you will have to figure in Ownerships Required Minimal Rate of Return based on the Riskiness of investment (Or Beta, based on Standard Deviation). This will help determine each teams required revenue, based on expenses. This will differ for each team based on: Amount of intial Investment, and Current overhead/Operational Costs. I'm not sure how that could be done, given that Risk is unknown, but greater than your baseline or Market Risk



They also take in Revenue from Liscensing and Merchandise sales, Concessions, etc.....Those figures are held very close to the vest by the NHL, albeit, it is less than the other 3 Major North American sports.
Yeah I have all that stuff in my data... I just didnt want to bore everyone with all the details...

Yeah I figured team revenues were top secret... the best stat I found were at the new nhlcba website... thanks for the help anyway guys.

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04-02-2004, 04:52 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoseTheo
Yeah I figured team revenues were top secret... the best stat I found were at the new nhlcba website... thanks for the help anyway guys.

Be wary of numbers from the nhlcba website.

Its a public relations site for one of the two parties that will be entering a labor dispute.

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04-02-2004, 09:50 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoseTheo
Yeah I have all that stuff in my data... I just didnt want to bore everyone with all the details...

Yeah I figured team revenues were top secret... the best stat I found were at the new nhlcba website... thanks for the help anyway guys.

How did you figure out insurance costs?....especially since they vary by team I'm sure. Same with Required rate of return? Who knows what each Management team requires each year on their overall investment.....It varies completely depending on the ownership group and their reason for investment. Are they primarily looking to net a gain each year? Some are...Not all. Are they primarily looking to grow their equity position by hoping the overall value of the franchise rises? Some are....But some are still concerned with the yearly return first and foremast Also too, Management costs are going to vary from team to team....and when I say vary, I mean in the millions...Travel expenses vary...More expenses for West Coast Teams, etc.......

..............Basically, I'm just wondering where you got your numbers, because they are not known to anyone outside of each individual teams top management, and maybe the league offices.......Some of that is closely guarded by ownership and ownership only!

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04-02-2004, 09:52 PM
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I'm just giving you the perspective of what I would look for in a project of such ilk. There were a lot of projects I would have loved to do for both my BSBA and my MBA that I couldn't due to complications as such. Usually, Public Corporations are a better way to go, since the information is thorough, and easily available to most.

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04-02-2004, 09:53 PM
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hahaha data managment

Once my teacher told us about this project you're doing, I dropped that class faster than you can say 'numbers suck'

(also helped I didn't need the course )

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Old
04-09-2004, 12:01 AM
  #10
Karl Pilkington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig1
How did you figure out insurance costs?....especially since they vary by team I'm sure. Same with Required rate of return? Who knows what each Management team requires each year on their overall investment.....It varies completely depending on the ownership group and their reason for investment. Are they primarily looking to net a gain each year? Some are...Not all. Are they primarily looking to grow their equity position by hoping the overall value of the franchise rises? Some are....But some are still concerned with the yearly return first and foremast Also too, Management costs are going to vary from team to team....and when I say vary, I mean in the millions...Travel expenses vary...More expenses for West Coast Teams, etc.......

..............Basically, I'm just wondering where you got your numbers, because they are not known to anyone outside of each individual teams top management, and maybe the league offices.......Some of that is closely guarded by ownership and ownership only!
It all goes into "operating costs"... it doesnt go into specifics, since that stuff is all top secret, and its only the total league costs... I have enough data though to keep me occupied.. I should be fine.. I'll be sure to mention all that stuff in my presentation though, thanks for bringing the thing about the insurance to my attention.

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Old
04-10-2004, 03:55 AM
  #11
craig1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoseTheo
It all goes into "operating costs"... it doesnt go into specifics, since that stuff is all top secret, and its only the total league costs... I have enough data though to keep me occupied.. I should be fine.. I'll be sure to mention all that stuff in my presentation though, thanks for bringing the thing about the insurance to my attention.

I know it's part of OC......I'm just wondering how accurate they are. I was just stating that data from privately held organizations is highly inaccurate and difficult to come across.

Good luck! Let me know how it turn out! I'm interested to see the results and methodology......If you need a proof-read or advice, PM me....Financial Analysis.....as you can see from my public profile, is a passion of mine!

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Old
04-10-2004, 09:16 AM
  #12
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As a recent BS in Finance, I can suggest you check out Hoovers.com (if your school has a subscription), they collect info on private companies, don't know whats on there specifically but it might have some numbers. Also check out the Bloomber terminal, might have limited info...

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04-10-2004, 01:01 PM
  #13
craig1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vbox81
As a recent BS in Finance, I can suggest you check out Hoovers.com (if your school has a subscription), they collect info on private companies, don't know whats on there specifically but it might have some numbers. Also check out the Bloomber terminal, might have limited info...

While Hoovers is OK, the info is speculative. Bloomberg is too, if they are issuing report on private company. The only people who truly know the positions of a private company are the executives and the Tax Man!

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