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Old
01-05-2008, 10:26 AM
  #51
SingnBluesOnBroadway
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Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
Renney coaches to not lose, always has.
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Originally Posted by BWayBShirt View Post
[/B]


and this be my personal biggest gripe against renney.

the thing i hate in sports more than anything is a coach who coaches not to lose than going for the win. to me that screams of playing passive and no drive to be agressive.
What exactly does this mean?

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01-05-2008, 11:44 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
What exactly does this mean?
It means you play it safe. You hang back in OT, to get to the shoot out for example. It means you lack killer instinct. I don't blame Tom for that, I blame the individual skaters, and I will always disagree with those saying he's a bad coach.

As for the game, The only reasoning I can see for Renney having the HBO line out there, was as a rest before he could play the top line again. Does anyone remember what line was out before them? Either way, that move still doesn't bother me all that much. What did, was Malik not missing a shift, after yet again another bad penalty. He should've been sat for the rest of the game, and the Rangers bus should leave him in the middle of a snow drift somewhere.

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01-05-2008, 11:50 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by WheresBarnaby View Post
It means you play it safe. You hang back in OT, to get to the shoot out for example. It means you lack killer instinct. I don't blame Tom for that, I blame the individual skaters, and I will always disagree with those saying he's a bad coach.

As for the game, The only reasoning I can see for Renney having the HBO line out there, was as a rest before he could play the top line again. Does anyone remember what line was out before them? Either way, that move still doesn't bother me all that much. What did, was Malik not missing a shift, after yet again another bad penalty. He should've been sat for the rest of the game, and the Rangers bus should leave him in the middle of a snow drift somewhere.
If you have the best goalie in the league in shootouts, isn't that giving your team the best chance to win?

And if he coaches not to lose, he's not lost more than any coach in recent history.

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01-05-2008, 12:07 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WheresBarnaby View Post
It means you play it safe. You hang back in OT, to get to the shoot out for example. It means you lack killer instinct. I don't blame Tom for that, I blame the individual skaters, and I will always disagree with those saying he's a bad coach.

As for the game, The only reasoning I can see for Renney having the HBO line out there, was as a rest before he could play the top line again. Does anyone remember what line was out before them? Either way, that move still doesn't bother me all that much. What did, was Malik not missing a shift, after yet again another bad penalty. He should've been sat for the rest of the game, and the Rangers bus should leave him in the middle of a snow drift somewhere.
Disagree with him being a terrible coach? Why is the HBO line out there 5 minutes left. When your down a goal, you shorten your bench. This is crunch time for your top players to suck it up and earn what they are getting paid.

The Rangers had a chance in both games with 5 power plays in each. The power play, despite the Toronto game, has been terrible all season, yet he continues to leave Dubinsky on the top unit, despite Jagr Gomez and Straka tearing it up together. Renney is too stubborn. Those are two games in which we should have had at least 2-3 points, if not all 4.

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01-07-2008, 07:52 AM
  #55
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Part of it is playing safe. Part of it is his overreliance on defence. It's no surprise that he has these guys completely focused and well coached defensively. But the lack of cohesiveness in the offensive zone tells me they have no game plan or a terrible one for the offensive zone. The players are more concerned with their backchecking and marks to actually consider jumping up in the play or going a little deep. That is playing it safe. Yes, defense is supreme, it wins games. But this team is taking it to the extreme. If you take away the turnovers, this team is easily under 2 goals against per game. But his need to "not lose" is taking something away from the offensive aspects of the game.

He's safe by playing Betts late in a tie game or game where we are down by one. Betts won't let up an even strength goal, he'll keep the game where it is... won't hurt you. But its no longer a debate that his won't score. You gotta take a chance with these riskier players because they have the offense that you need at that moment.

Renney's not a gambling man, which is wonderful for the team 80 or 90% of the time. But sometimes you have to take some chances to score. Not every game can be won 2-1.

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01-07-2008, 08:38 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
Part of it is playing safe. Part of it is his overreliance on defence. It's no surprise that he has these guys completely focused and well coached defensively. But the lack of cohesiveness in the offensive zone tells me they have no game plan or a terrible one for the offensive zone. The players are more concerned with their backchecking and marks to actually consider jumping up in the play or going a little deep. That is playing it safe. Yes, defense is supreme, it wins games. But this team is taking it to the extreme. If you take away the turnovers, this team is easily under 2 goals against per game. But his need to "not lose" is taking something away from the offensive aspects of the game.

He's safe by playing Betts late in a tie game or game where we are down by one. Betts won't let up an even strength goal, he'll keep the game where it is... won't hurt you. But its no longer a debate that his won't score. You gotta take a chance with these riskier players because they have the offense that you need at that moment.

Renney's not a gambling man, which is wonderful for the team 80 or 90% of the time. But sometimes you have to take some chances to score. Not every game can be won 2-1.
The focus on defense comes from the fact that the offensive is unpredictable and unreliable.

Not every game can be won 2-1. But they can easily be lost 4-1.

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01-07-2008, 10:11 AM
  #57
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Singn'...

is the offense unreliable and unpredictable because they're focused on defense? As an example, or all Prucha's problems offensively, he plays about as much as Betts and Orr at even strength and seems to be on the ice for less goals (or at least is a much better +/- rating and isn't scoring, so it must be fewer minuses). He may face top lines less, but he also faces fourth lines less, and does face decent competition. In the end, is that what Renney's looking for? His bottom two lines to not lose the game and hope that Jagr's line will average 1.1 goals per game and Shanny's line average 1.1 goals per game and the third and fourth lines combining for .4 goals per game (note, figures include PP) and the Rangers give up 2.25 goals per game, thus winning 2.60-2.25 on avearge, which should be enough to win games? Perhaps that focus on defense is making the offense struggle a bit as Renney cannot find a system that take allows some guys to exploit their offensive creativity while not making them defensive liabilties.

Just a thought..it's interesting to note that the Rangers, after this road trip, have now given up more goals than they have scored.

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01-07-2008, 10:33 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
is the offense unreliable and unpredictable because they're focused on defense? As an example, or all Prucha's problems offensively, he plays about as much as Betts and Orr at even strength and seems to be on the ice for less goals (or at least is a much better +/- rating and isn't scoring, so it must be fewer minuses). He may face top lines less, but he also faces fourth lines less, and does face decent competition. In the end, is that what Renney's looking for? His bottom two lines to not lose the game and hope that Jagr's line will average 1.1 goals per game and Shanny's line average 1.1 goals per game and the third and fourth lines combining for .4 goals per game (note, figures include PP) and the Rangers give up 2.25 goals per game, thus winning 2.60-2.25 on avearge, which should be enough to win games? Perhaps that focus on defense is making the offense struggle a bit as Renney cannot find a system that take allows some guys to exploit their offensive creativity while not making them defensive liabilties.

Just a thought..it's interesting to note that the Rangers, after this road trip, have now given up more goals than they have scored.
But what else should he do Fletch? His third and fourth lines are filled with players who are either offensively challenged or who are young and have not learned how to score on a consistant basis?

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01-07-2008, 10:55 AM
  #59
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He's the coach...

and should figure it out.

For me, there can be a different mix of players. Avery with Dubi and Prucha; Hossa with Shanny and Drury; Cally instead of Hollweg on a fourth line, and perhaps Orr sitting out 1/3 of the games and Hollweg and Cally in his place. Maybe Moore's an answer on a fourth line. Perhaps it's Dawes with Drury and Shanny and Hossa in place of Hollweg and Cally sitting. The PP's gotten better, but there's still something wrong with that 'first' PP, and I think what had been wrong is Dubi as Jagr, who's the QB, doesn't get the space from a lack of moving around, which he did a lot of with Nylander (and Straka is not good at the point).

There are options. The players are here. Some are underachieving (Jagr, Straka and Prucha). Perhaps some were allowed to be in certain roles too long (Hossa and Dubi). The point is, he should be able to get more out of his players. Sutter lost a couple players and was starting in the NHL for the first time and he seems to be getting the best out of his players. Nolan lost a fair amount of players, doesn't really seem to have much offensive talent, but is right there with the Rangers. Philly sucked last year and is now one point behind the Rangers with less games played (same with the Isles). And the list goes on. Point is, Renney needs to get more out of his players; that's the bottom line. I can suggest ways to do it, say it needs to be done for more than a game, or several games, etc., but in the end, the criticism is he needs to get more out of these guys.

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01-07-2008, 11:29 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Hplaya94 View Post
Disagree with him being a terrible coach? Why is the HBO line out there 5 minutes left. When your down a goal, you shorten your bench. This is crunch time for your top players to suck it up and earn what they are getting paid.

The Rangers had a chance in both games with 5 power plays in each. The power play, despite the Toronto game, has been terrible all season, yet he continues to leave Dubinsky on the top unit, despite Jagr Gomez and Straka tearing it up together. Renney is too stubborn. Those are two games in which we should have had at least 2-3 points, if not all 4.
I think you guy's forget how tired Jagr tends to get at the end of shifts. He needs that time off. I'm not making excuses for the guy, (he's my least favorite player on the team after Malik) but you can double and triple shift Jagr and not expect the same result, which was an odd man rush the other way, and a bad penalty taken.

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01-07-2008, 11:31 AM
  #61
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I'd rather HBO playing with 5 minutes in the 3rd period and us losing/tying now then Jagr & Shanny being out there for all of that extra time and then being shot by the end of the season. Last year people crucified Renney because he played the top two lines too much. Now he's balancing it out more and people still can't give him a break.

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01-07-2008, 11:51 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by PruBlue25 View Post
I'd rather HBO playing with 5 minutes in the 3rd period and us losing/tying now then Jagr & Shanny being out there for all of that extra time and then being shot by the end of the season. Last year people crucified Renney because he played the top two lines too much. Now he's balancing it out more and people still can't give him a break.
There's a difference between utilizing the 4th line and using them at times during the game when they are obviously not the best choice to be out there. The key is to use the 4th line in a way that allows your top forwards to keep something in the tank for the final 5 minutes.

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01-07-2008, 11:53 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
There's a difference between utilizing the 4th line and using them at times during the game when they are obviously not the best choice to be out there. The key is to use the 4th line in a way that allows your top forwards to keep something in the tank for the final 5 minutes.
agree, having the 4th line on with 2 mins to go when trailing by a goal or more is not a smart move especially when that line is not that great with offense.

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01-07-2008, 12:02 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
and should figure it out.
The one thing I notice, and at this point i'm probably harping on it, is that this team seems to lack a system in the offensive zone. No one is on the same page. I wonder who's fault that is. Is Renney not devoting enough time and thought into play with the puck or are the players freelancing too much? Something is wrong with that aspect of the game

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Originally Posted by RCallahan43 View Post
agree, having the 4th line on with 2 mins to go when trailing by a goal or more is not a smart move especially when that line is not that great with offense.
It's smart if you don't want to lose the game. Now if you want to win...

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01-08-2008, 08:40 PM
  #65
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fyi, with 7 mins to go in this game and the rangers down by 1. the 4th line saw 2 shifts.


Just saying.

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01-08-2008, 08:41 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
fyi, with 7 mins to go in this game and the rangers down by 1. the 4th line saw 2 shifts.


Just saying.
Remember though, firing Renney is not the answer, it's only the players.

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01-08-2008, 08:43 PM
  #67
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As I was saying in the GDT, if Perry Pearn is in charge of the PP, how is he keeping his job?

Just as an example, the 5 on 3 PP has had the two pointmen too close together for seasons now and it shows no signs of correction. If a guy has this as a job, shouldn't he be doing it properly?

And oh, our apparent lack of communication on the ice, together with our utter failure to collapse around our own net, has been a problem for a loong time now. We're also continuing to give away oddman rushes and breakaways like a candyman in Fantasia Land.

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01-08-2008, 08:45 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
fyi, with 7 mins to go in this game and the rangers down by 1. the 4th line saw 2 shifts.


Just saying.
Totally was on that too, and when they came back from the break i was about to throw myself out of the window if Betts was taking the draw with 5:21 left

I swear.

**** this ****ing **** what the **** is Renney thinking!!!!!!????\


Time for a new AV

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01-08-2008, 08:46 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
As I was saying in the GDT, if Perry Pearn is in charge of the PP, how is he keeping his job?

Just as an example, the 5 on 3 PP has had the two pointmen too close together for seasons now and it shows no signs of correction. If a guy has this as a job, shouldn't he be doing it properly?

And oh, our apparent lack of communication on the ice, together with our utter failure to collapse around our own net, has been a problem for a loong time now.
I'm not sure if it's him or Mike Pelino, I think it's Perry Pearn though.

Regardless, the 5 on 3 sucks, but Renney is the answer to our coaching problems, not the other 2.

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01-09-2008, 03:51 AM
  #70
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People, be real. Look at these statistics.

3rd Period TOI/Total TOI:

Shanahan 07:14/12:50
Gomez 09:45/23:27
Drury 10:29/23:37
Jagr 09:37/22:35

Hollweg 02:39/13:51
Betts 03:03/16:05
Orr 02:34/13:16 *Drew a PP that led to a goal, by the way

Nearly half a period (or more), with the exception of Shanahan who is playing hurt.

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreport...8/TH020629.HTM

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01-09-2008, 07:50 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
As I was saying in the GDT, if Perry Pearn is in charge of the PP, how is he keeping his job?

Just as an example, the 5 on 3 PP has had the two pointmen too close together for seasons now and it shows no signs of correction. If a guy has this as a job, shouldn't he be doing it properly?

And oh, our apparent lack of communication on the ice, together with our utter failure to collapse around our own net, has been a problem for a loong time now. We're also continuing to give away oddman rushes and breakaways like a candyman in Fantasia Land.
It's not perry Pearns fault that Shanny could hit the ocean on a boat on that 5 on 3. What was it like 5 missed shots on goal. or that Rosival refused to shooot when he was wiiiiiiideeeeeeeee open.

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