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Betweeen the 4 sports where does hockey rank as importance ofa championship?

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Old
08-20-2007, 12:44 AM
  #1
Big Phil
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Betweeen the 4 sports where does hockey rank as importance ofa championship?

Okay we'll take Basketball, Football, Baseball an Hockey. What is the order in which its important to win a championship?

I'm going to do my own list from #1-4 in which #1 being the most vital to win a championship for their sports in order to obtain a bigger legend.

#1 Basketball - This is the most important IMO. Think about it. Do you think greatness when you think of Karl Malone? Charles Barkley? Yeah you do but what comes to mind right away with those two names. They are two of the best ever to never win an NBA championship. Basketball is more of an individual sport than the other three. Quite often two teams are judged by the way each of their star players will perform. Quite often they can only go as far as their top player can take them. Bill Russell always beat Wilt Chamberlain in the playoffs and Boston relied heavily on Russell. If he doesnt outperform Wilt then Boston 99% loses.

#2 Hockey - It isnt as big of an issue but it still hurts. When the Hockey News made their top 100 list the best player to have never won a Cup was Dionne at #38. Even today he is by far the best to have never won a Cup. Why is Lafleur rated so much higher on an all-time list over Dionne? Stats wise they are pretty much the same but Lafleur won Cups and was the reason why the Habs did so well too (one of them at least). You can get into the Hall of Fame if you havent won a Cup but it may have pushed guys over the limit that wouldnt have been in there in the first place. McDonald, Mullen, Gillies, Barber, Shutt, Cheevers and others are among players who wouldnt be in the Hall if they didnt win. They did and theres not a debate of their Hall status but winning pushed them over the top. You can get away with it in Hockey more than the NBA but it still can be an albatross without that ring.

#3 Football - The NFL is funny that way. It is important to win and one player can sometimes make a difference but a lot can happen as to why a team doesnt win. I mean Tom Brady has won a Super Bowl and Dan Marino hasnt. Plus a player can still be an elite all time player if he's never won. Terrell Owens in my book will never win one but he's the best receiver in the NFL. Dick Butkus never won a Super Bowl but he could easily be a top 10 player of all time. Marino too. No one would ever put Dionne in the NHL's top 10. Footbal tends to rely less on individuals than the first two sports. But it is an issue to an extent.

#4 Baseball - If winning a Cup in Hockey is important and being thought of as a legend in being a winner than the opposite applies in Baseball. Yeah winning is great but almost half of the top 10 players of all time never won a World Series. The top 10 list is arguable but for sure in it would be Ted Williams, Ty Cobb, Barry Bonds. Alex Rodriguez probably isnt there yet but he's close. Then take some other guys. Willie Mays won once, Hank Aaron once. Only Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio, Lou Gehrig are guys who have won the World Series an eye popping amount of times that would crack the list.

Williams everyone knows about. Cobb was a competitive as anyone but still didnt win. In fact in Baseall some people have floated around names like Bonds or Cobb ( zero WS rings) as the best of all time. In a sport that has what many consider the best ever as a guy who never won it makes you realize that there is more to the game than that. First off in Baseball its a 162 game season. That's what people look at. Plus you could have a rotten bullpen and a terrible supporting cast and while hitting over 50 home runs you still dont get your team in the playoffs. A-Rod was hitting 50 home runs and couldnt even get Texas out of the basement of their division let alone a World Series. Now does that question A-Rod's heart or does it go to show you that one player can only do so much unlike in the NBA. To me this is why Baseball is #4 on this list.

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08-20-2007, 04:00 AM
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it's impossible to judge

the fact that Stanely Cup is a trophy that is celebrated, worshiped, and lusted after by a majority of population in Canada, and growing in the states. is totally different.

If you want to judge the importance of winning a cup towards a HHOF vote, then nah, it's not really important.

But if you want to judge the importance of winning a cup for a player, i can tell you right now, hell ya, it's the most important thing in the world.

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08-20-2007, 07:11 PM
  #3
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Stanley Cup easily.

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08-20-2007, 10:36 PM
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In Basketball the measure of greatness is winning multiple Championships. Magic, Michael, Bird, Shaq, Isiah, Duncan they did it recently. But Basketball is an individual sport more than any other. In Hockey the Cup is important to EVERYONE on the team. The 4th line is still important. The 18th, 19th, 20th players on a team.

To win a Cup you need more than your best 2 or 3 or 4 players to dominate. You need lights out goaltending, 3 or likely 4 strong 2-way lines 5 or 6 defenceman playing awesome.

You could put Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson on a number of tems and they still win becuse their performance is the most important. Gretzky or Mario could be on a crappy team and that team is not going to win.

The Stanley Cup is the hardest trophy to win. And it is because it is so hard to win it. You can be the 16th seed and you can win it - it takes the ENTIRE team coming together but it can be down over a 2 month season. In the NBA the team with the best 2 or 3 players almost always wins. You only need 8 players that are even decent. So to show you are a great individual player the NBA Chamoionship is the biggest thing. But as a TEAM as a group of 20 players that win through tenacity and pure strength of will the Stanley Cup is the greatest trophy.

I would say that NHL players value the Cup more that any other sport does their championship. It isn't about money or anything else it is the 82 game grind and 4 series that is everything in the NHL. There is many a star player - or semi star player that is jealous of the 4th line grinder that won a cup if he can't do it before he retires. The actual trophy of the Stanley Cup is more respected and honoured than in any other sport. Players that have not won the Cup will almost invairably not even touch it.

The NHL is 4th in TV ratings and 4th in revenue and 4th in popularity in the USA but the trophy itself, the value of it to fans and players is 1st. The NHL has a winner with the Stanley Cup. What are the names of the other trophies? They are meaningless.

What other trophy would have players like Cam Neely and Marcel Dionne likely envious of the careers of Joe Dipenta and Sean O'Donnell?

The Cup is easily number 1!!!!!!!!!!!!

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08-21-2007, 12:41 AM
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Big Phil
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What I'm meaning here guys is how important is a championship to your HOF chances. In other words in Baseball Bonds will never win one, and maybe not A-Rod but both will be remembered as greats. In Hockey Dionne isnt in the same breathe as Yzerman, Sakic, Lafleur, Messier and others that have won. Dionne doesnt get the same love as Ted Williams will get in Baseball. So in other words in the eyes of the world how important is it to win for your own reputation as greatness. I'm just saying Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing just may not get the same recognition as Ty Cobb.

That's why my order is this:
Basketball
Hockey
Football
Baseball

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01-13-2008, 02:53 AM
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hockeys kind of funny that way...top 10 all time nhlers...on all...if not most peoples lists....probably doesnt include henri richard...who has the most cups of any player in history with 11

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01-13-2008, 02:58 AM
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the reason so few greats lack in world series numbers is because it is the hardest trophy to win. Even now only 8 out of 30 teams get to compete with for it, but before 1969 I believe it was 2/20 teams had a chance to compete for it. As opposed to 16/21 teams in the nhl for a long time.

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01-13-2008, 03:22 AM
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Nalyd Psycho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
#1 Basketball - Bill Russell always beat Wilt Chamberlain in the playoffs and Boston relied heavily on Russell. If he doesnt outperform Wilt then Boston 99% loses.
Not to nit-pick, but, if Chamberlain has Cousy instead of Russell having him, then Chamberlain's got the rings. The #2 guy in basketball is almost more important than the #1 guy.

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01-13-2008, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup 2008 Sens Rule View Post
The Stanley Cup is the hardest trophy to win. And it is because it is so hard to win it.


I do agree that the Cup is the hardest to win. I just couldn't not point out the brilliance of that argument.

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01-13-2008, 04:10 AM
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vadim sharifijanov
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you're oversimplifying things a lot. basketball has seen a lot of dynasties and mini-dynasties since 1980, while a lot more different hockey teams have won the cup. also, hockey rosters are far longer than basketball rosters, so hockey players can play more active roles after their primes, and hockey players tend to stick around longer because of it. for these two reasons, it is much more reasonable to expect an all-star hockey player to win a cup at some point in his career than an all-star basketball player, at least for those who have played in the last 25-odd years, because they would have had more chances.

many of the greatest basketball players of the last 25-odd years never won a championship. barkley, stockton, malone, ewing, miller, wilkens, kevin johnson, kidd, iverson, nowitski, nash... look at the nhl's first team all-stars from 1990-2000 -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_All...m#From_1980-90 -- only seven times in the entire decade did a player who never won a cup in his career make the first all-star team. now look at the first team all nba from the same period -- http://www.nba.com/history/awards_allnba -- notice the difference?

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01-13-2008, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Not to nit-pick, but, if Chamberlain has Cousy instead of Russell having him, then Chamberlain's got the rings. The #2 guy in basketball is almost more important than the #1 guy.
Chamberlain never suffered from a lack of a supporting cast.

At various times, he played with hall of famers Paul Arizin, Tom Gola, Nate Thurmond, Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, and Gail Goodrich.

It doesn't matter if you have the top dog in hockey or basketball if you don't possess the team chemistry needed to win.

Wilt's ultimate true greatness was his ability to alter his own game, to stop taking 30 shots a night and incorporate some very talented teammates into the mix.

It's no coincidence that Wilt's two titles (1967,1972) came after he started concentrating more on defense and passing (even leading the league in assists once).

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01-13-2008, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Cup 2008 Sens Rule View Post
The Stanley Cup is the hardest trophy to win. And it is because it is so hard to win it.
huh??

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01-13-2008, 04:49 PM
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Basketball is clearly #1. A dominant player in basketball means more than any other sport.

Football it depends on the position. For a QB, it's vital. For the rest of the positions, not so much.

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01-13-2008, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Basketball is clearly #1. A dominant player in basketball means more than any other sport.

Football it depends on the position. For a QB, it's vital. For the rest of the positions, not so much.
Well, I think the Running Back and Receivers are almost as important as the QB. Unlike hockey where a guy like Thornton can make a guy like Cheechoo lead the league in scoring, a QB without good receivers won't get as much done. Even Tom Brady said after the last game that the reason he looked so good was because his team mates got themselves open and made it easy to pass. He was probably being modest but you get the idea.

The championships in the 4 sports are all very important. I think baseball is the lowest because, while it's one of the hardest to win, a lot of great players can go with out winning one and still make the HOF (also insane standards to enter) and the like. Baseball is the most diverse of the team sports because everyone has one and only one position defensively so a star has far less impact.

Basketball has the most repetition of roles, everyone can shoot, pass, block, dunk etc if they have the talent and this goes for offense and defense. Great players can carry a team but there is a lot of talent in the game these days so there are few mega stars that can win any game, there's always good competition down the stretch to a championship. This is why some great players might not get a championship because they might be a HOFer but so might the star on the opposing team and it just so happens he has better support. Look at Jason Kidd, no one is arguing that he isn't a Hall of Famer but he hasn't won a title and that doesn't matter too much to the public, I'm sure he wants one more than anything.

Hockey might have the most value, especially these days since you might only get one crack before your team is gone. The game is the fastest on earth and it used to be the most physical and probably still is. You have stars that excel in many facets, offense, defense and goalie. 3 unique positions that are all involved whenever they are on the ice. How many players in the HHOF have never won a cup? I don't know the exact number but it's a pretty small chunk. Why is it that people use the # of cups as a stat, like in Steve Yzerman's tribute last night? To be the best you've got to have a ring to your name which is why it's the most important.

I rank it

Hockey
Football (for QBs) and Basketball
Baseball
Football for everyone else

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01-13-2008, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Basketball is clearly #1. A dominant player in basketball means more than any other sport.
On the other hand, this makes it the easiest sport to have a dynasty in. Which leaves a lot of other players around the league out in the cold during their best years.

What chance did guys like Ewing, Miller, or Malone really have at a title during the Jordan years? If Jordan never left for baseball, I bet Olajuwon doesn't have a title either.

There's eras in every sport where a team is just untouchable, and it happens more in basketball than in the other 3 sports.


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01-13-2008, 11:43 PM
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Hockey bias here but that aside I have read many times and I agree that the Stanley Cup is the hardest Championship to win in all professional sports.

Hardest to win=Important to win

That aside the Super Bowl is huge and I would think more people would say that over the Cup.

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Old
01-14-2008, 03:04 AM
  #17
VanIslander
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IN America:

1. Winning the World Series (baseball guys have the longest memory, and the winner of the series so esteemed, end of such a looooong season)

2. Winning the Stanley Cup (longest tradition, still meets the u.s. prez, travels the world, most meaningful trophy)

3. Winning the NBA championship (is largely about star players getting their due, least meaningful, silly-looking trophy)

4. Winning the Superbowl (getting to the bowl is HUGE, a lot of hype before the game, the build up, but the game itself is often a letdown and almost beside the point)

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