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3 goaltenders in Peoria

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Old
11-21-2007, 10:54 PM
  #76
Prussian_Blue
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Originally Posted by TrustInJarmo View Post
I will be honest TK, I haven't seen a game in person on or any tape of him this year.

He wasn't flat out terrible last year...but I did think he was very shaky in the games I saw. I talked to locals last year who would say "Marek was solid last game...hopefully he can do it tonight." Though every game I saw he was making stupid mistakes.

Out of position letting in some bad goals. Giving the puck up in his own zone. WAY TO MANY REBOUNDS (some that lead to big goals) was just some of the things I saw out of Marek.

Although maybe it was just a concidence and I saw "all" his bad games last year. Because like I said they were very high on his previous games.

Though I don't know if that is the same problem right now he is experiencing...wonder if anyone else has seen Schwarz in person this year??
I have, several times.

You're spot-on with the rebound control observation. Schwarz makes some athletic, acrobatic saves, but in doing so, sometimes leaves himself out of position for the rebound.

Schwarz hasn't played poorly any time I've seen him this year, but as I've mentioned elsewhere, what hurts him stats-wise is the fact that Peoria gives the opposition so few shots.

It's unrealistic to expect shutouts every night; for a goaltender to allow less than 2.5 goals against per 60 minutes played should be good enough to win most nights. The problem is that when you face only 23 shots against per game (on the average), allowing two goals puts your save percentage at well over 91%, while allowing three puts your save percentage around 87%. Split the difference -- allow 2.5 goals against per game -- and you get a save percentage around 89.5%, which is where Schwarz's save percentage is at now.

Schwarz does need to develop more consistency, and work on controlling the rebounds, but keep in mind he's only 21, and that he basically lost an entire year of development while sitting on Sparta Praha's bench in 2005-06.

P_B


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11-23-2007, 06:01 PM
  #77
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Didn't CBT sign a ONE-year 2-way AHL/ECHL contract with Peoria/Alaska?
Yes, Becks did sign a two way deal this season. I have to admit, Becks has been an Elite goalie at the ECHL level and still is, but he has not been as dominating this season here as he was the last two seasons.

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01-05-2008, 12:04 PM
  #78
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Schwarz seems to be now the backup in Peoria the last 5 or so games. Is he injured or is it time to worry about his development?

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01-05-2008, 07:06 PM
  #79
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Schwarz seems to be now the backup in Peoria the last 5 or so games. Is he injured or is it time to worry about his development?
I don't know, and that's a darn good question. I was wondering the same thing myself.

If I were the Blues, I'd be:

1. Scouting goaltenders for the draft, with an eye towards taking the best one available with one of the two second-round picks they have.

2. Working like mad to get Reto Berra signed and over here for next year, as he's outplayed Schwarz (in my mind, anyway) in each of the last two Development Camps.

3. Discretely asking around to see what kind of trade value Schwarz (and the rights to Konstantin Barulin) might have, and what kind of prospect goaltenders might be available.

If Schwarz snaps out of it, and reaches his potential by the end of the season, great. But if he doesn't, and if he doesn't at least show JD and Rick Wamsley (who ought to be able to recognize such things) that he's worth hanging on to, then this year is the time to maximize the return for him.

P_B


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01-05-2008, 07:28 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
I don't know, and that's a darn good question. I was wondering the same thing myself.

If I were the Blues, I'd be:

1. Scouting goaltenders for the draft, with an eye towards taking the best one available with one of the two second-round picks they have.

2. Working like mad to get Reto Berra signed and over here for next year, as he's outplayed Schwarz (in my mind, anyway) in each of the last two Development Camps.

3. Discretely asking around to see what kind of trade value Schwarz (and the rights to Konstantin Barulin) might have, and what kind of prospect goaltenders might be available.

If Schwarz snaps out of it, and reaches his potential by the end of the season, great. But if he doesn't, and if he doesn't at least show JD and Rick Wamsley (who ought to be able to recognize such things) that he's worth hanging on to, then this year is the time to maximize the return for him.

P_B

I agree with all of this, but what about Bishop? If we do see Schwartz moved, any chance that Bishop gets signed and plays in Peoria at the end of next year/start of next year?

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01-05-2008, 11:20 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
I don't know, and that's a darn good question. I was wondering the same thing myself.

If I were the Blues, I'd be:

1. Scouting goaltenders for the draft, with an eye towards taking the best one available with one of the two second-round picks they have.

2. Working like mad to get Reto Berra signed and over here for next year, as he's outplayed Schwarz (in my mind, anyway) in each of the last two Development Camps.

3. Discretely asking around to see what kind of trade value Schwarz (and the rights to Konstantin Barulin) might have, and what kind of prospect goaltenders might be available.

If Schwarz snaps out of it, and reaches his potential by the end of the season, great. But if he doesn't, and if he doesn't at least show JD and Rick Wamsley (who ought to be able to recognize such things) that he's worth hanging on to, then this year is the time to maximize the return for him.

P_B


Hey Guys,

He gave up one goal tonight. And played last on the 29 and 30th. He was pulled on the 30th, but went in to cover for CBT on the 29 who gave up like 3 goals in 2 minutes. He still has a decent goals against and save %.

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01-06-2008, 08:34 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
I don't know, and that's a darn good question. I was wondering the same thing myself.

If I were the Blues, I'd be:

1. Scouting goaltenders for the draft, with an eye towards taking the best one available with one of the two second-round picks they have.

2. Working like mad to get Reto Berra signed and over here for next year, as he's outplayed Schwarz (in my mind, anyway) in each of the last two Development Camps.

3. Discretely asking around to see what kind of trade value Schwarz (and the rights to Konstantin Barulin) might have, and what kind of prospect goaltenders might be available.

If Schwarz snaps out of it, and reaches his potential by the end of the season, great. But if he doesn't, and if he doesn't at least show JD and Rick Wamsley (who ought to be able to recognize such things) that he's worth hanging on to, then this year is the time to maximize the return for him.

P_B

Patience, grasshopper. Goalies take a long time to drevelop. Schwarz will be fine.

But I'm all for drafting another young goalie. The system is so deep now that I would even take a first rounder if he is the BPA.

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01-06-2008, 09:37 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by execwrite View Post
Patience, grasshopper. Goalies take a long time to drevelop. Schwarz will be fine.

But I'm all for drafting another young goalie. The system is so deep now that I would even take a first rounder if he is the BPA.
I know Prussian has seen Marek play this year...and if he is worried about Schwarz now...as well as if you saw him play last year, like I did, you will know there is and must be great concern for our former 1st round pick to be our future netminder.

Marek is about to turn 22....he was drafted 4 years ago. There can not be a lot more patience with this man.

Just to give you an idea on where other good prospect goalies we're at at 22 years old, what they did in the NHL at Marek's age...I know this isn't all of them...but just to give you an idea if you think Marek could be our guy down the road...

Brodeur: 22 years old...playing in the Eastern Confernce Finals in 94...a year later at 23 he wins the Cup.

Parent: 22 years old...regular goaltender for the Flyers at that point.

Roy: 21 years old...won the Stanley Cup.

Cam Ward: 22 years old....Won the Stanley Cup as the back bone for the Hurricanes.

While Marek is about to turn 22 and is still way to up and down in the AHL. Let alone playing in the NHL.

Could it all pan out for Schwarz...sure. But if your a betting man...you bet against him. Just like if your a GM or President...you bet against him and don't count on him down the road. Because if he continues this the rest of the year...and is about to go into his 5th year since being drafted with this little improvement...it is very VERY unlikely he will ever be our future guy.


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01-06-2008, 11:35 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by TrustInJarmo View Post
I know Prussian has seen Marek play this year...and if he is worried about Schwarz now...as well as if you saw him play last year, like I did, you will know there is and must be great concern for our former 1st round pick to be our future netminder.

Marek is about to turn 22....he was drafted 4 years ago. There can not be a lot more patience with this man.

Just to give you an idea on where other good prospect goalies we're at at 22 years old, what they did in the NHL at Marek's age...I know this isn't all of them...but just to give you an idea if you think Marek could be our guy down the road...

Brodeur: 22 years old...playing in the Eastern Confernce Finals in 94...a year later at 23 he wins the Cup.

Parent: 22 years old...regular goaltender for the Flyers at that point.

Roy: 21 years old...won the Stanley Cup.

Cam Ward: 22 years old....Won the Stanley Cup as the back bone for the Hurricanes.

While Marek is about to turn 22 and is still way to up and down in the AHL. Let alone playing in the NHL.

Could it all pan out for Schwarz...sure. But if your a betting man...you bet against him. Just like if your a GM or President...you bet against him and don't count on him down the road. Because if he continues this the rest of the year...and is about to go into his 5th year since being drafted with this little improvement...it is very VERY unlikely he will ever be our future guy.
Manny Legace spent six years in the minors. Patience with goaltenders.

Does not mean you don't keep expanding the pool of goalie prospects.

Apparently Schwarz played very well last nite. He's got the skills to succeed.

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01-06-2008, 02:17 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by execwrite View Post
Manny Legace spent six years in the minors. Patience with goaltenders.

Does not mean you don't keep expanding the pool of goalie prospects.

Apparently Schwarz played very well last nite. He's got the skills to succeed.
No doubt he has the skills to make it. Will he live up to his skills is another question.

Hopefully, he is another Legace...hopefully it takes him longer to make it...we will see.

I will say one thing though, we should NOT trade him just to trade him (like a Cash). Keep him as at least a backup in Peoria because he has the potential. We should only trade him if it's a deal we can't pass up...but 100% we need to bring up another guy in net next year. Bishop, Reto, etc.

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01-06-2008, 05:55 PM
  #86
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Don't forget about his "lost" year of development when he decided to stay home instead of playing in the AHL. While he is 22, his development is a year behind.

I say keep him for at least another year to see if he shows improvement. If he still battles inconsistancy, then I wouldn't be objected to seeing him leave.

That said though, if he can be packaged along with one of Backman/Jackman to bring in a top-notch scorer, I wouldn't think much of it. It would give a chance for either Bishop or Berra to make the club.

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01-06-2008, 06:21 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Frenzy1 View Post
Hey Guys,

He gave up one goal tonight. And played last on the 29 and 30th. He was pulled on the 30th, but went in to cover for CBT on the 29 who gave up like 3 goals in 2 minutes. He still has a decent goals against and save %.
All of that is noted, Frenzy...

I'm just saying that it seems like his development has stalled somewhat, and he's basically the same goalie this year as he was last year; excellent at times, decidedly mediocre at others.

You'd like to see a little more development, a little more improvement, a little more consistency after the player's first pro season, that's all.

I'm not ready to just give up on Schwarz by any means; I wasn't ready to give up on Bacashihua, either, for that matter. I'm just saying that maybe -- and this is all subjective, depending on JD and Wamsley's evaluations as the organization's goaltending experts -- the time might have come to start looking in another direction for the "Goalie Of The Future."

As for Bishop, I honestly think he's better served to stay in college for his entire four-year commitment. I think Berra's got every bit as much potential, and Berra's pretty good-sized himself at 6'3, 187 or something like that. Berra has been the best goalie in the last two Development Camps, from my point of view.

P_B


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01-06-2008, 10:00 PM
  #88
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Berra has been the best goalie in the last two Development Camps, from my point of view.
^Agree with this^

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01-06-2008, 10:23 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustInJarmo View Post
I know Prussian has seen Marek play this year...and if he is worried about Schwarz now...as well as if you saw him play last year, like I did, you will know there is and must be great concern for our former 1st round pick to be our future netminder.

Marek is about to turn 22....he was drafted 4 years ago. There can not be a lot more patience with this man.

Just to give you an idea on where other good prospect goalies we're at at 22 years old, what they did in the NHL at Marek's age...I know this isn't all of them...but just to give you an idea if you think Marek could be our guy down the road...

Brodeur: 22 years old...playing in the Eastern Confernce Finals in 94...a year later at 23 he wins the Cup.

Parent: 22 years old...regular goaltender for the Flyers at that point.

Roy: 21 years old...won the Stanley Cup.

Cam Ward: 22 years old....Won the Stanley Cup as the back bone for the Hurricanes.

While Marek is about to turn 22 and is still way to up and down in the AHL. Let alone playing in the NHL.

Could it all pan out for Schwarz...sure. But if your a betting man...you bet against him. Just like if your a GM or President...you bet against him and don't count on him down the road. Because if he continues this the rest of the year...and is about to go into his 5th year since being drafted with this little improvement...it is very VERY unlikely he will ever be our future guy.
all of those goaltenders could be considered the exception rather than the norm and all of them are north american born. find some european goaltenders to compare Schwarz too and you might not hit the panic button so quick.

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01-06-2008, 10:45 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
All of that is noted, Frenzy...

I'm just saying that it seems like his development has stalled somewhat, and he's basically the same goalie this year as he was last year; excellent at times, decidedly mediocre at others.

You'd like to see a little more development, a little more improvement, a little more consistency after the player's first pro season, that's all.

I'm not ready to just give up on Schwarz by any means; I wasn't ready to give up on Bacashihua, either, for that matter. I'm just saying that maybe -- and this is all subjective, depending on JD and Wamsley's evaluations as the organization's goaltending experts -- the time might have come to start looking in another direction for the "Goalie Of The Future."

As for Bishop, I honestly think he's better served to stay in college for his entire four-year commitment. I think Berra's got every bit as much potential, and Berra's pretty good-sized himself at 6'3, 187 or something like that. Berra has been the best goalie in the last two Development Camps, from my point of view.

P_B

Hey PB,

Few goalies break into the league at 22 or younger. And if they do it is a very limited role. I strongly feel that it would help Marek to play atleast 1 more year in the AHL, regardless.

Basically, you agree he is inconsistent - which is true of any young player. Some games Perron is great others.... same w/ Johnson. It takes goalies a lot longer due to the position being about mental toughness and focus vs. play and react. It isn't unusual for a solid goalie to break into the bigs at 24. Take a look at MA Fluery. He was slated to be great, but he is still working on consistency.

Also, Marek did lose 1 full year of development when he returned home at 19 to play a back up role. Further, he was playing great last season --- then he got injured. At this point, he hasn't had to play through the grind. This is the part of the season where you must stay focused. Beginning of the season everyone is ready and the focus is there, end of the season you have the playoff push, but the middle is where the true grind begins.

He has yet to do this due to the points listed above. This will, hopefully be his 1st injury free season as a starter. This is where he learns focus.... He is still a year away regardless, so he has time.

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01-06-2008, 11:15 PM
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Surprised to see Prussian concerned about a 22 yr. old goaltender, but if he's not playing...

I think he'll be fine, we're pretty well coaceh down there and he seems to be suffering from the inconsistency that dogged Cash. Let's hope he gets past it, I think he will.

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01-07-2008, 12:31 AM
  #92
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Makes me glad we've got Toivy/Bishop/Berra.

I'm not going to write Schwarz off completely, but he's going to be behind Toivonen on the charts for a long time at this rate.

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01-07-2008, 02:05 AM
  #93
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Current NHL goalies who have taken a long route to landing their spot between the pipes: J-S Giguere, Tim Thomas, Miikka Kiprusoff, Dwayne Roloson, Jason LaBarbera, Niklas Bäckström, Cristobal Huet, Chris Mason, Martin Gerber, Manny Legace, Vesa Toskala. I'm not comparing any of them talentwise to Schwarz, merely pointing out the need for patience in goalie development.

If the Blues lose it with Marek, send him over to Finland where he'd enjoy excellent goalie coaching.

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01-07-2008, 03:13 PM
  #94
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Some of the greatest goalies didn't really make it until they were 27, 28 or even 30. Johnny Bower comes to mind. Few goalies are really good before 25 years of age. We can't really write Schwarz off so early in his career. He doesn't have the work ethic and attitude problem that Bacashiua seems to have. He just needs some more seasoning.

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01-07-2008, 03:59 PM
  #95
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My opinion on this is we should keep Schwarz. He may be 22 and drafted 4 years ago, but as noted before he has had two years that interrupted his development. I also feel you have to practice patients with goalies. All of them seem to develop differently and at their own pace. Currently I am not disappointed with his development, nor happy with it. This guy needs time. But while we are waiting to see what happens, we need to continue to keep adding goalie projects, cause one will eventually pan out.

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01-07-2008, 04:57 PM
  #96
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Surprised to see Prussian concerned about a 22 yr. old goaltender, but if he's not playing...
And that's what I'm primarily concerned about.

Beckford-Tseu isn't even Blues' property any more, and yet he's getting the bulk of the starts here in the last few weeks, while Schwarz sits.

I'd just like to know what the reasoning is behind the decision to play CBT over Schwarz. If it's simply that Dave Baseggio thinks that CBT gives the Rivermen a better chance to win, then I won't question that decision, because I trust Baseggio's judgement. But if there's something else that's leading them to that conclusion, some flaw in Schwarz's character or deficiency in his game that they've tried to work out of him and can't, then that's cause for concern in a goaltender that much of the future is being staked upon.

You guys who know me here, know that I like goalies, and Europeans especially. As I said, I'm not ready to give up on Schwarz yet, not by a long shot... but I would like to see him start progressing a little more, and not marking time at the same level of development he was at last year.

I don't know if Peoria has their own goaltending coach or not, nor do I know if Wamsley sepnds much time up there working with Schwarz and CBT, but next time I'm up there for a game, I'll make sure to ask Coach both of those questions.

P_B


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01-13-2008, 11:15 AM
  #97
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FYI - Schwarz's numbers are getting better. Now at 2.37 and .900

Maybe the kid does have a future.

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01-14-2008, 10:58 PM
  #98
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....a guy you are forgeting - Hasek

made the NHL at 24-25 but did not come into his won until his second year with the Sabres, at 28.

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01-15-2008, 02:27 AM
  #99
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I really wouldn't worry about it. Both goalies drafted before him in his draft year (Montoya and Dubnyk) have not played in the NHL. Goalies take a while. It is most likely better that he apprentice in the AHL and gain his confidence to dominate that league before he is rushed to the NHL where he can fall into a situation like Toivonen where now his confidence will always be called into question.

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