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01-16-2008, 09:09 AM
  #51
DontStepanMe
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Originally Posted by segmentation fault View Post
Maybe we can trade him for forwards or defenseman that actually help. Its not the craziest idea as some people have been saying, but if were going to rely on Lundy like we relied on Jagr, things could go downhill real fast.

Im not saying he SHOULD be traded by any means, Im just saying some of the reactions here are completely irrational.
I agree on all accounts. I in no way want to trade of Lundy but if there is a good deal out there that will make the team better (and it could happen) than you would be foolish NOT to at least think about it.

Put it this way say Florida would make a trade of Horton, Bouwmeester, and Vokoun for Lundy, Dubi and a 1st. You would have to at least think about it. I'm not saying this is realistic by any means. But it could better your team. Vokoun isn't a better goalie but he is good. Horton would better your offense, and Bouwmeester would improve our D. Hence the team as a whole would get better.

Again let me reiterate, I DO NOT WANT TO TRADE LUNDY, but if a deal comes by that would guarantee the Rangers as whole would get better I would do it, as long as we have another goalie who is capable of being a good starter.

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01-16-2008, 10:07 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Yep, a two time Vezina finalist and two time 30 goal winner is no longer better or more valuable than Tim Thomas. Boston doesn't need Lundqvist because of the prospect of a healthy Manny Fernandez. NOW I've heard it all.
I've said, THIS year Timmah plays better than Lundquist, he was huge for us and saved a lot of games. Next year, being pared with Fernandez and Boston finally adding a legit #2 defender i can see them both going for the Jennings trophy, you probably heard about it, this is the trophy Fernandez won last year, huh.

Lundquist is a top5 goalie in the league, no question and i do like him a lot, but please explain, why in hell should Boston, having the goalie with best saving percentage in the league behind the pipes, the backup with .922 sv% behind him, with a legit #1 goalie coming after the surgery next year AND with the worlds best goalie prospect in Rask in the backhand trade their 2 best offensive prospects, both top 8 picks, the best defensive prospect, who already proved himself as a top4 defender AND the worlds best goalie prospect AND their 1st in the deepest draft since years. Why, why should do Boston something insane like that?

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01-16-2008, 10:10 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by TheMetalChick View Post
Wow. I just... WOW.
Well, good for Boston, then!
And to think of the fans in NY thinking their teams have good goalies. FOOLS!
U're right, Timmah should be taken over DiPietro for the US-Team, hands down. He looks ugly on the ice, but he makes the hasek-like saves and this is just what he should do.

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01-16-2008, 10:27 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by NYR425 View Post
Before you all go nuts, this is a question. Would it be in our best interest to move Hank and some others at the deadline and free up big bucks. We are not a Cup contender now as constructed, and have no cap room. Say we can move Hank to Boston for Kessel, Stuart, Hamil, Rask and a #1. Stuart gives us a physical dman, and Kessel and Hamil some O, Rask another Goaltending prospect. Then we look to move Jagr, Shanny, Straka, Rosie, Leak and Mara. We could maybe send Rosie to Chicago for Skille, then Shanny to San Jose for Couture. Jagr to St.Louis for Burglund and Hjalmarsson. Just a thought but I think it has to be considered. Don't know who would want these players even, but would like to know what you think. The goal is to
build a team that will be a cup contender for a decade or more. Just think Hank will cost so much against the cap, and I believe Montoya is the real deal also. Since he is cheaper for a few years we should give it a shot.
I don’t think there’s a shot in hell the Rangers move Lundqvist, but I am a bit intrigued by what they could possibly get back in return. Your example on what Boston might offer seems like a massive overpayment from the B’s though.

I just don’t think there would by much of a trade market out there for Lundqvist. Yes, he’s one of the top 5 goalies in the league (despite recent struggles), but I don’t think they’d find many trade partners.

For starters, they’d have to give up a lot. Secondly, they know he has a big payday coming and is a pending RFA that can’t be taken to arbitration – meaning if he isn’t signed prior to the trade, there’s a chance another team could make a Vanek-like offer on him. Plus, his recent struggles may be some cause for concern for some GM’s. Not to mention a decent goaltender like Bryzgalof couldn’t fetch anything (yes, he’s nowhere near the class of Lundqvist, but still it shows how bad the market is that nobody even offered up a 3rd or 4th rounder for him).

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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Come on. Lundqvist is a far superior goalie to Tim Thomas. And much younger. Yeah, I think Boston takes that "downgrade".
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Yep, a two time Vezina finalist and two time 30 goal winner is no longer better or more valuable than Tim Thomas. Boston doesn't need Lundqvist because of the prospect of a healthy Manny Fernandez. NOW I've heard it all.
Just because Lundqvist is the superior goalie doesn’t mean the B’s would have any interest in trading for him. They’d have to give up way to much in prospects & picks to make the deal & they’d still have a lot of money tied up in Fernandez & Thomas (though I guess one could go the other way). Given the way Lundqvist has struggled the past month or two & how Thomas is playing much better than expected, it doesn’t look like it would be that much of an upgrade THIS SEASON the way things have been going. Plus, I’m sure the B’s aren’t too worried about the future of their goaltending with Rask in the pipeline – they’re probably hoping Thomas can keep his play up or Fernandez is healthy & effective next season to bridge the gap until Rask is ready. Thus, I really doubt the B’s have any interest in making a deal for Lundqvist.

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01-16-2008, 10:34 AM
  #55
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What was the situation when we traded Beezer, and let Richter take over?

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01-16-2008, 10:38 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers View Post
What was the situation when we traded Beezer, and let Richter take over?
I'm pretty sure Richter had played a few NHL games before they shipped off the B'z.

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01-16-2008, 10:44 AM
  #57
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Never.

We are spoiled. Often we compare him to guys like Brodeur, Luongo, etc... who've had a ton more experience in the NHL than him. Then we complain about why he isn't as consistent as them when we all know he's still just a kid who's got a whopping 2 seasons behind him in the NHL. He's growing and learning everyday

I'm embarrassed this thread even came up

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01-16-2008, 10:47 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers View Post
What was the situation when we traded Beezer, and let Richter take over?
I was a bit young, but I thought that both were pretty well established goaltenders at the time.

I also think they had to make a trade rather than risk losing one of them in an upcoming expansion draft (since you could only protect one goaltender).

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01-16-2008, 10:50 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by KingHenrik35 View Post
I'm pretty sure Richter had played a few NHL games before they shipped off the B'z.
I believe it was a rotating tandem. Beezer would play then Richter, as Richter wasn't quite The Man yet.

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01-16-2008, 11:02 AM
  #60
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I believe it was a rotating tandem. Beezer would play then Richter, as Richter wasn't quite The Man yet.
Yeah they did that for FOUR seasons !

Richter played very well, expcept for that last season he shared the nets with Vanbies, when he was sent to the minors for a few games. So basically, Neil Smith held onto the guy he thought was the future even though Richter was the one who struggled badly that year.

Then Vanbies was left off our protected list for the expansion draft.

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01-16-2008, 11:07 AM
  #61
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Yeah they did that for FOUR seasons !

Richter played very well, expcept for that last season he shared the nets with Vanbies, when he was sent to the minors for a few games. So basically, Neil Smith held onto the guy he thought was the future even though Richter was the one who struggled badly that year.

Then Vanbies was left off our protected list for the expansion draft.
Actually VBK was traded to the Canucks for Doug Lidster so the Rangers did not have to expose him to the expansion draft.

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01-16-2008, 11:11 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Actually VBK was traded to the Canucks for Doug Lidster so the Rangers did not have to expose him to the expansion draft.
Right, I knew somehow Vancouver was involved in all that.

Then they didn't protect Vanbies and he went to Florida. Imagine what '94 wouldve been like if they get Vanbies & let McLean go to Florida

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01-16-2008, 11:11 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by PsychoDad View Post
U're right, Timmah should be taken over DiPietro for the US-Team, hands down. He looks ugly on the ice, but he makes the hasek-like saves and this is just what he should do.
The "US team"? Are you referring to the Olympics? Or are are you still crying about the All Star game and how your whooptey-friggin-do 8th place team "should" have three players going to the all star game, even though the best they can do is sit right by a team that doesnt even have a single first line player?

Bruins fans... wow.


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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Yeah they did that for FOUR seasons !

Richter played very well, expcept for that last season he shared the nets with Vanbies, when he was sent to the minors for a few games. So basically, Neil Smith held onto the guy he thought was the future even though Richter was the one who struggled badly that year.
^And that is the right way to do it.

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01-16-2008, 11:20 AM
  #64
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Right, I knew somehow Vancouver was involved in all that.

Then they didn't protect Vanbies and he went to Florida. Imagine what '94 wouldve been like if they get Vanbies & let McLean go to Florida
That would have been something. But who knows — McLean was great in the Cup final.

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01-16-2008, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers View Post
What was the situation when we traded Beezer, and let Richter take over?
Lundqvist is better then Richter at this time. Keenan traded Luongo and that forever stained his HOF career. I wouldn't trade Lundqvist for Crosby now. Later, who knows, but as a rule of thumb forwards are easier to produce and get then goalies. Team can win without premium scorer, but never without premium G.

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01-16-2008, 11:29 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by TheMetalChick View Post
The "US team"? Are you referring to the Olympics? Or are are you still crying about the All Star game and how your whooptey-friggin-do 8th place team "should" have three players going to the all star game, even though the best they can do is sit right by a team that doesnt even have a single first line player?

Bruins fans... wow.




^And that is the right way to do it.
Im speaking bout Olympics if they'd be tommorow. The All-Star game doesnt bother me at all. DiPietro is there cause they had to take somebody from the Islanders. Timmah is the better choise but i dont care if he plays there or not.

And, speaking bout first liners. U've got Guerin, who was All-Star last year, dude. We have Savard, voted in after Heatleys injury. Whats your problem?

Tampa is dead last and still has 2 players in the all-star game. The standings have nothing to say bout the number of star players in the team, 3 guys cant carry 17 other players.

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01-16-2008, 11:35 AM
  #67
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Team can win without premium scorer, but never without premium G.
Depends. If you have a premium defense, letting some pressure off the G, you can do without a superstar G.

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01-16-2008, 11:36 AM
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Depends. If you have a premium defense, letting some pressure off the G, you can do without a superstar G.
ala Cam Ward.

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01-16-2008, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by PsychoDad View Post
Im speaking bout Olympics if they'd be tommorow.
What is he, 33? 34? 35? Something like that. Regardless, he is a bit OLD to start sewing his name on the US jersey and banking on him putting the entire olympic team on his back, dont you think? How old will he be?

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And, speaking bout first liners. U've got Guerin, who was All-Star last year, dude. We have Savard, voted in after Heatleys injury. Whats your problem?
No problem. Guerins a good guy, I happen to like him a lot and Im happy he is on the team. But he also happened to have had a career year last season. He is on pace for maybe 28 goals this season and not even 50 points. If thats your only 1st liner and he is playing with guys like Richard ParK, what does that say about the team? And about a team with lots of supposedly all-star calliber players who are doing just as good as they are?

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Tampa is dead last and still has 2 players in the all-star game. The standings have nothing to say bout the number of star players in the team, 3 guys cant carry 17 other players.
Regardless, the Bruins dont deserve to have three players there. If they had 3 actual all stars they would not be sitting down with the Islanders!

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The All-Star game doesnt bother me at all. DiPietro is there cause they had to take somebody from the Islanders. Timmah is the better choise but i dont care if he plays there or not.
Nope- Thomas is not there because Brodeur, Rick, and Vokoun were chosen instead. Lundqvist is more deserving than Thomas, IMHO... and if he was a bit more consistent this season he would be there over Vokoun. Tim is a good goalie but would be lucky IMO if he was the 5th goalie in consideration.

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01-16-2008, 12:25 PM
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Haven't gone through this whole thread...

but given where the state of the Rangers' goaltending is, and the ages of those goaltenders, Lundqvist is not a guy you trade, not matter what the return is (in my opinion, there would not be the right players in return to cause me to say this is a good dead). Decent goalies aren't hard to come by. Great goalies are. For most of 2 1/2 seasons, Lundqvist has been a great goaltender. He's had a month-long stetch in which he's been ordinary on a team which the wheels seem to be coming off. I can understand calls to trade a 36, 37 or 38 year old, but not really a [25?] year old who is coming off two great seasons and a great first couple months. Too tough to convince me that guy needs to be traded, especially if you believe teams are built from the net out.

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01-16-2008, 12:49 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by TheMetalChick View Post
What is he, 33? 34? 35? Something like that. Regardless, he is a bit OLD to start sewing his name on the US jersey and banking on him putting the entire olympic team on his back, dont you think? How old will he be?


No problem. Guerins a good guy, I happen to like him a lot and Im happy he is on the team. But he also happened to have had a career year last season. He is on pace for maybe 28 goals this season and not even 50 points. If thats your only 1st liner and he is playing with guys like Richard ParK, what does that say about the team? And about a team with lots of supposedly all-star calliber players who are doing just as good as they are?


Regardless, the Bruins dont deserve to have three players there. If they had 3 actual all stars they would not be sitting down with the Islanders!


Nope- Thomas is not there because Brodeur, Rick, and Vokoun were chosen instead. Lundqvist is more deserving than Thomas, IMHO... and if he was a bit more consistent this season he would be there over Vokoun. Tim is a good goalie but would be lucky IMO if he was the 5th goalie in consideration.
I really dont want to hijack this threas as it is about trading Lundquist to Bruins and not about how good Thomas is. Still, i got some things to say.

First of all, age doesnt matter, its the perfomance which should count. Roloson played for Canada last year and won the WC, aged 37. He was an allstar and Stanley-Cup finalist, though he started playing in the NHL with 27 and became regular starter with 32. So whats the point? What does age to do with carrying a team? And i wrote, if the Olympics were tomorrow, not 2010. Right now Timmah is the best US-goalie, a bit better than DiPietro and a lot better than Miller.

Guerin would still be a 1st-liner on the Boston team. Boston hat one legit 1st liner in Savard, Bergeron is out for the season and played 2nd line. We dont have any 1st line wingers, come on, PJ Axelson plays there. Murray is an old man is injured every second game over last seasons. Boston doesnt have a 2nd or a 3rd defenseman, we have a stud in Chara and a bunch of #4-#5s out there. So its not like Islanders are a miracle and Boston is there it should be. In the HF poll Boston was chosen as the biggest surprise of the season so im not alone out there.

I never said, that Boston deserved 3 players. But, just looking at the stats: Timmah deserves to be there but is not because of DiPietro and Vokoun were chosen by the rule that every team should have one player at the all-star game. This is what it is. Lundquist should be the starter if he played like last two seasons or the beginning of the season but he does not play like that. Timmah was consistent this season, u cant say anything opposite. A couple of weak goals but a lot of huge saves, just like always. 0.930 sv% after 30 games is not a fluke.

And speaking about having 3 all stars in the team... i already said that , Tampa has 4! Lecavalier (reigning Richard winner), Richards (Conn Smyth trophy) and St.Louis(Art Ross, Hart)...dont forget Prospal, scoring on the PPG this season.. and Boyle, a second all-star last year. Still dead last in the division. Ottawa has the same amount of stars in the team, but are the best in the conferense. Its the supporting cast and the coaching, what matters, not the amount of all-star-caliber players.

Once again: big sorry for the rangers fans for flooding this thread, i just wanted to mention my thoughts bout Thomas as he would be the one to be substituted by Lundquist in this trade.

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01-16-2008, 01:05 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by TheMetalChick View Post
What is he, 33? 34? 35? Something like that. Regardless, he is a bit OLD to start sewing his name on the US jersey and banking on him putting the entire olympic team on his back, dont you think? How old will he be?


No problem. Guerins a good guy, I happen to like him a lot and Im happy he is on the team. But he also happened to have had a career year last season. He is on pace for maybe 28 goals this season and not even 50 points. If thats your only 1st liner and he is playing with guys like Richard ParK, what does that say about the team? And about a team with lots of supposedly all-star calliber players who are doing just as good as they are?


Regardless, the Bruins dont deserve to have three players there. If they had 3 actual all stars they would not be sitting down with the Islanders!


Nope- Thomas is not there because Brodeur, Rick, and Vokoun were chosen instead. Lundqvist is more deserving than Thomas, IMHO... and if he was a bit more consistent this season he would be there over Vokoun. Tim is a good goalie but would be lucky IMO if he was the 5th goalie in consideration.
Agreed with most of what you said but the bolded.

If Lundqvist was more consistent he'd be a lock and so would Brodeur, and it'd be a fighting spot for Vokoun and DP, not vice-versa. While I myself would pick DP, and it probably would be, because all the tri-state goalies in the all star game would be good for the NHL.

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01-16-2008, 01:12 PM
  #73
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Agreed with most of what you said but the bolded.

If Lundqvist was more consistent he'd be a lock and so would Brodeur, and it'd be a fighting spot for Vokoun and DP, not vice-versa. While I myself would pick DP, and it probably would be, because all the tri-state goalies in the all star game would be good for the NHL.
Its just wording... we dont really disagree. I think Rick AND Lundqvist would get it over Vokoun, so the end would be the same. That is, as long as they werent all freaked out over putting in the METRO ICE GOALIE TRIO!
I guess we will find out next year lol.

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01-16-2008, 01:51 PM
  #74
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Its just wording... we dont really disagree. I think Rick AND Lundqvist would get it over Vokoun, so the end would be the same. That is, as long as they werent all freaked out over putting in the METRO ICE GOALIE TRIO!
I guess we will find out next year lol.
Let's hope Brodeur doesn't get gray hair, and DP and Lundy are good at this point next year.

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01-16-2008, 01:57 PM
  #75
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Before you all go nuts, this is a question. Would it be in our best interest to move Hank and some others at the deadline and free up big bucks. We are not a Cup contender now as constructed, and have no cap room. Say we can move Hank to Boston for Kessel, Stuart, Hamil, Rask and a #1. Stuart gives us a physical dman, and Kessel and Hamil some O, Rask another Goaltending prospect. Then we look to move Jagr, Shanny, Straka, Rosie, Leak and Mara. We could maybe send Rosie to Chicago for Skille, then Shanny to San Jose for Couture. Jagr to St.Louis for Burglund and Hjalmarsson. Just a thought but I think it has to be considered. Don't know who would want these players even, but would like to know what you think. The goal is to
build a team that will be a cup contender for a decade or more. Just think Hank will cost so much against the cap, and I believe Montoya is the real deal also. Since he is cheaper for a few years we should give it a shot.

Vermette, Eaves, Meszaros, Emery (if you want him), a pick of 1 of our prospects and a 1st rounder.

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