HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Prospects
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

How freakin dissapointed should I be?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-11-2004, 01:41 PM
  #151
HabsYounGuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 25
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly>
I didn't know they had a team in Kansas.

http://www.pittks.org/

Did some research, and they don't have a Pro team.



Fleury didn't want to play in the WJC.

Fleury didn't want to go back to Jrs.

He made the best of an uncomfortable situation.

People are just looking for reasons to bash him because of the WJC, eventhough he had asked not to be sent there.

Calling a 19 year old goalie, who just the year before was the star of the WJC, a bust, is as comical as it is ridiculous.
I never called Fleury a bust, he is the most skilled goalie I saw... All what I said is that he is very immature and tend to choke at crucial moments! IMO Lehtonen will be a better one because I think he is much stronger mentally... But its just me, I can be wrong but to me Fleury looks as much immature as Pascal Leclair was at the same age! More Skilled though..

HabsYounGuns is offline  
Old
04-11-2004, 03:32 PM
  #152
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14,449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsYounGuns
I never called Fleury a bust, he is the most skilled goalie I saw... All what I said is that he is very immature and tend to choke at crucial moments! IMO Lehtonen will be a better one because I think he is much stronger mentally... But its just me, I can be wrong but to me Fleury looks as much immature as Pascal Leclair was at the same age! More Skilled though..
You base his mental toughness on what exactly?

Again, he did not want to be at the WJC and in Juniors.

He went from the NHL all the way back to Juniors. Even the most elite athlete would have trouble playing with heart and desire under those circumstances.

Yet, he didn't pout, but played very well going 8-1 at CB until his team played poorly in the playoffs.

I think he did well considering he wasn't where he wanted to be.

Lehtonen has played only a handful of games in the NHL, as has Fleury. How you can make a judgement now, is beyond me.

To each his own I suppose.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline  
Old
04-11-2004, 09:12 PM
  #153
ATG
Registered User
 
ATG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Toronto
Country:
Posts: 9,552
vCash: 500
Well if Pittsburgh fans want Ovechkin so much would you trade the #2 plus a premier prospect?


Last edited by ATG: 04-11-2004 at 09:18 PM.
ATG is offline  
Old
04-11-2004, 11:21 PM
  #154
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14,449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander the Great
Well if Pittsburgh fans want Ovechkin so much would you trade the #2 plus a premier prospect?
Depends on the prospect.

I wouldn't trade Fleury straight up for Ovechkin, let alone throw in the #2.

I think a franchise goalie is much more important in today's NHL than a franchise forward.

One of Whitney/Orpik/Malone plus the #2 for the rights to get Ovechkin?

I could live with Malone plus the #2, but anything else I may not feel comfortable with.

Mcphee would ask for at least two of the named players above and the #2, I feel.

I just don't think Ovechkin will be that much more dominant than Malkin when they both reach their prime.

How good would Mario be if he came into the NHL as a rookie today?

Mario came into the league when it was 'run and gun' and still it took the Pens close to 6 years to put the right supporting cast around him to win.

I feel both will become very good players, and it will most likely depend on the supporting cast around them, that ultimately determines how successful they will become.

So I wouldn't be very happy to see the Pens give away any of their young talent, when that player may be an important piece of the rebuilding process.

It doesn't matter what I think anyway, it matters what CP and Mcphee want to do.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline  
Old
04-11-2004, 11:23 PM
  #155
stardog
Registered User
 
stardog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,985
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsYounGuns
The sadest thing for you Pittsburg fans is how Fleury choke when it count! He failed at the WJC and just failed again with Cap Breton against an Average Chicoutimi team! Cap Breton was favorite with Gatineau to win the title in the Q even before Fleury came back from the NHL!

This kid looks extremmely immature and althought he is highly skilled, I personnally doubt he is mentally strong enough to become a top goalie in the NHL!
That is swell! I applaud you for bringing it up in this thread.
And considering that the whole team played below par, I would like to take the time to thank you for blaming the entire loss on Fluery, who couldn't for the life of him, score any goals.
I would also like to thank you for providing an expert analysis into his psychological make up. It is THIS kind of scouting report that makes HF what it is....simply the BEST!

stardog is offline  
Old
04-11-2004, 11:27 PM
  #156
stardog
Registered User
 
stardog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,985
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander the Great
Well if Pittsburgh fans want Ovechkin so much would you trade the #2 plus a premier prospect?
Of course it depends on the premier prospect, but I would be willing to do so quite easily.
Who exactly did you have in mind?
Caps fans, what do you think?

I am probably alone in this, but would Whitney and the #2 overall pick do?

stardog is offline  
Old
04-11-2004, 11:38 PM
  #157
Brad Tolliver
Terror Goes Into
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Overtime
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly>
Depends on the prospect.

I wouldn't trade Fleury straight up for Ovechkin, let alone throw in the #2.

I think a franchise goalie is much more important in today's NHL than a franchise forward.
That will never happen as the Caps are already stacked with goalie prospects. But what you said right there pretty much contradicted just about everything your fellow Pens fan schultjr had to say.

Brad Tolliver is offline  
Old
04-12-2004, 12:43 AM
  #158
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14,449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoeverine
That will never happen as the Caps are already stacked with goalie prospects. But what you said right there pretty much contradicted just about everything your fellow Pens fan schultjr had to say.
I'm not aware of his post, but not all Pens fans agree on things obviously.

Also, if Fleury's name was brought up in trade talks for the #1 pick, I think Mcphee would be more than willing to listen.

He would be foolish not to, but I don't see any scenario where this would happen.

Would you as a GM rather have Fleury and Malkin, or Ovechkin?

I doubt many GMs would choose Ovechkin over both Fleury and Malkin.

McPhee is going to hold at #1, I am almost certain. Ovechkin is about as sure a thing as you can get in the draft, so he will have to be blown away with an offer to move down.

The Pens, sitting at #2 with a chance to get Malkin, most likely won't be that team willing to blow McPhee away.

The Pens are very lucky to get Fleury and Malkin in back to back years (assuming they draft him).

So you won't hear me whine about losing the lottery, ever.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline  
Old
04-12-2004, 12:47 AM
  #159
Drake1588
UNATCO
 
Drake1588's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 27,847
vCash: 500
Fleury is likely the top goaltending prospect in the league at the moment, but the Caps are high on Maxime Ouellet, and have two to three others in the pipeline. So the question is whether or not the Caps want Ovechkin and a combination of Ouellet, Stana and Daigneault; or Malkin and Fleury. The Caps would choose Ovechkin and their current pool of goaltending. Fleury is probbaly better than the goalies in the Washington system, but the Caps are hardly hurting for goaltending just the same, and are satisfied with their development pool at that position.

Drake1588 is offline  
Old
04-12-2004, 01:43 AM
  #160
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14,449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588
Fleury is likely the top goaltending prospect in the league at the moment, but the Caps are high on Maxime Ouellet, and have two to three others in the pipeline. So the question is whether or not the Caps want Ovechkin and a combination of Ouellet, Stana and Daigneault; or Malkin and Fleury. The Caps would choose Ovechkin and their current pool of goaltending. Fleury is probbaly better than the goalies in the Washington system, but the Caps are hardly hurting for goaltending just the same, and are satisfied with their development pool at that position.
You can't really look at it that way. You have to understand how a GM uses great depth at one position as leverage in trades.

In a purely hypothetical situation that has Craig Patrick offering Fleury and his #2 to McPhee, I don't see him turning that offer down.

He can then use Fleury or Ouellet as leverage in another big trade.

- Perhaps they could send Fleury to Chicago/Phoenix for their pick, and add Malkin and Schremp/Barker to their prospect poll.

- Another deal could involve Ouellet and one of the Caps #1 picks to move up into the top 10.

McPhee would have almost unlimited options with Fleury, the Pens #2 and his other 2 #1 picks he still holds.

You play GM and tell me what you would do.

Personally, if I was McPhee and I was offered Fleury and the #2, I would jump all over it.

Again, there is almost no chance Patrick would trade Fleury, which makes this whole post pure fantasy.

It is fun to talk about these sort of trades, but on draft day, I can almost guarantee you McPhee will take Ovechkin.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline  
Old
04-12-2004, 03:22 AM
  #161
Brad Tolliver
Terror Goes Into
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Overtime
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
But then you have to think that other GMs aren't going to be willing to give up as much knowing that McPhee will have trade either Ouellet or Fleury, especially if there is a salary cap. They will know McPhee wouldn't want to have a lot cap room tied up in goaltending alone. Frankly if I was Patrick I would just hold on to Fleury, bring him along slowly, because as you said franchise goalies are far harder to come by, especially when it's playoff time.

Brad Tolliver is offline  
Old
04-12-2004, 04:28 AM
  #162
Vlad The Impaler
Registered User
 
Vlad The Impaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 11,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly>
You can't really look at it that way. You have to understand how a GM uses great depth at one position as leverage in trades.

In a purely hypothetical situation that has Craig Patrick offering Fleury and his #2 to McPhee, I don't see him turning that offer down.

He can then use Fleury or Ouellet as leverage in another big trade.
You're confusing your make-belief fantasy hockey strategies with the way it works in the real world.

Vlad The Impaler is offline  
Old
04-12-2004, 06:54 AM
  #163
Drake1588
UNATCO
 
Drake1588's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 27,847
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
You're confusing your make-belief fantasy hockey strategies with the way it works in the real world.
Indeed. Fact is that McPhee isn't trading for young goaltending at any point in the foreseeable future. On draft day, if offered Fleury for the 1st overall, McPhee declines. If offered most realistic packages, he's going to decline. The pick is worth a great deal, and teams are not going to be offering up sweetheart packages of several star prospects, which is what it would take to get his attention. McPhee will hold his pick. The organization is very high on Ouellet. While acknowledging there are others better out there, he is solid enough and the upgrade is not worth dealing a projected franchise offensive player.


Last edited by Drake1588: 04-12-2004 at 06:58 AM.
Drake1588 is offline  
Old
04-12-2004, 11:02 AM
  #164
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14,449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
You're confusing your make-belief fantasy hockey strategies with the way it works in the real world.
Make believe? lol

Learn to read.

Quote:
In a purely hypothetical situation that has Craig Patrick offering Fleury and his #2 to McPhee, I don't see him turning that offer down.
Quote:
Again, there is almost no chance Patrick would trade Fleury, which makes this whole post pure fantasy.
You are the last person to talk about a make believe world.

Living in your Mario-hate fetish world. You have issues, to be honest.

It is kind of sad to have so much hate for a man you never met and don't know personally.

Once you come into the real world let me know, then we can talk about what is and isn't real.

Keep up your little Mario hate party campaign, it's noble work you are doing Vlad. We all need to make a difference in the world, right?


Last edited by Mr Jiggyfly: 04-12-2004 at 11:28 AM.
Mr Jiggyfly is offline  
Old
04-12-2004, 11:23 AM
  #165
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14,449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588
Indeed. Fact is that McPhee isn't trading for young goaltending at any point in the foreseeable future. On draft day, if offered Fleury for the 1st overall, McPhee declines. If offered most realistic packages, he's going to decline. The pick is worth a great deal, and teams are not going to be offering up sweetheart packages of several star prospects, which is what it would take to get his attention. McPhee will hold his pick. The organization is very high on Ouellet. While acknowledging there are others better out there, he is solid enough and the upgrade is not worth dealing a projected franchise offensive player.
The deal was Fleury and the #2. Not just Fleury.

McPhee would decline this package? I highly doubt it.

I didn't make this package up, by the way. Mark Madden, a local talk show host for ESPN radio said he heard the Pens may consider it. Madden is usually reliable when it comes to Pens rumors.

He later said Patrick had no plans to trade Fleury, as I suspected.


Quote:
But then you have to think that other GMs aren't going to be willing to give up as much knowing that McPhee will have trade either Ouellet or Fleury, especially if there is a salary cap. They will know McPhee wouldn't want to have a lot cap room tied up in goaltending alone. Frankly if I was Patrick I would just hold on to Fleury, bring him along slowly, because as you said franchise goalies are far harder to come by, especially when it's playoff time.
The Caps will have more than enough room to play with the salary cap, even if it is set between 35-40 million as the NHL is pushing for.

McPhee trimmed $24 million off the payroll, and the Caps will have more than enough flexibility if a salary cap is adopted.

The current contracts for NHL players can also be grandfathered into the new cap. No one knows for sure how things will work.

I think in order to get the NHLPA to agree to a hard salary cap of any kind, the NHL owners will have to agree to grandfather in the current contracts of NHL players.

Either way, the Caps would have more than enough room to keep Fleury and Ouellet.


Last edited by Mr Jiggyfly: 04-12-2004 at 11:30 AM.
Mr Jiggyfly is offline  
Old
04-12-2004, 02:31 PM
  #166
Flames Draft Watcher
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Calgary
Posts: 4,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierX
To a certain extent, yes everyone is 1 hit away but that doesnt make everyone equal. Malkin has already had 1 concussion that I know of, which makes his next a career killer (potentially). And even if he does come back, will he still be at the level that he was pre concussion? Kolanos had this same problem, and Im sure there are others. If I were the penguins, I would go for Olesz or Barker. Either pure offense or pickup a bluechip defneseman, which IMO the penguins lack.
Olesz also suffered a concussion this year.

Flames Draft Watcher is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:37 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.