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Note to Renney: You don't get a bonus for keeping the timeouts in your pocket...

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01-17-2008, 03:52 AM
  #1
Inferno
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Note to Renney: You don't get a bonus for keeping the timeouts in your pocket...

Just kind of a general observation. Games can be won or lost at the beginning or middle of a game. When a team like Pittsburgh blitzes you for a couple of goals in a short span, and your team is playing like crap, calling a timeout can help win you the game right there.

It just kinda bugs me that Renney will only use his timeouts under 3 circumstances.

1)to prepare for a 5 on 3
2)to rest guys after an icing when leading or tied in a game late in the 3rd.
3)to rest guys for an offensive zone faceoff when tied or trailing in a game.

I dont think i have ever seen Renney take a time out after a team scores like 2 or 3 super quick goals, or after a team has like a dozen chances in a row and henrik stands on his head. Call me crazy but I really wish he would more effectively use his timeouts. maybe this little mini-rant didnt deserve its own thread, but im not sure it belongs in the fire renney page, since i think it does warrant some discussion....

i mean, am i the only one who thinks timeouts should be used early in the game if the situation warrants it? because it sure doesnt seem like renney does

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01-17-2008, 04:00 AM
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Fish on The Sand
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this is pretty lame. The 3 situations you listed are whe he should use them. Using a timeout after 2 or 3 quick goals would probably do nothing. What's he going to do, tell the team they need to suck less?

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01-17-2008, 04:45 AM
  #3
Carlos Ranger
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Timeouts are overrated. Coaches get more time to rally the troops during the several TV timeouts, so it's kind of pointless to bash Renney for not making sure he uses his every game.

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01-17-2008, 04:51 AM
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Hes damned if he does, damned if he doesnt....

Jesus, its beginning to make sense to me why some NY teams play better on the road.

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01-17-2008, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by WithChawwclateSawwce View Post
Hes damned if he does, damned if he doesnt....

Jesus, its beginning to make sense to me why some NY teams play better on the road.
Montreal and Toronto phenomenon, too.

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Old
01-17-2008, 08:37 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
Just kind of a general observation. Games can be won or lost at the beginning or middle of a game. When a team like Pittsburgh blitzes you for a couple of goals in a short span, and your team is playing like crap, calling a timeout can help win you the game right there.

It just kinda bugs me that Renney will only use his timeouts under 3 circumstances.

1)to prepare for a 5 on 3
2)to rest guys after an icing when leading or tied in a game late in the 3rd.
3)to rest guys for an offensive zone faceoff when tied or trailing in a game.

I dont think i have ever seen Renney take a time out after a team scores like 2 or 3 super quick goals, or after a team has like a dozen chances in a row and henrik stands on his head. Call me crazy but I really wish he would more effectively use his timeouts. maybe this little mini-rant didnt deserve its own thread, but im not sure it belongs in the fire renney page, since i think it does warrant some discussion....

i mean, am i the only one who thinks timeouts should be used early in the game if the situation warrants it? because it sure doesnt seem like renney does
This one of Renney's many flaws.

I'm surprised that some don't see the benefit of a time out when getting out played.

Settle the troops, reinforce the confidence in the game plan, and hopefully disrupt the flow for the other team.

I would also suggest that sending out Orr for some fireworks is another tactic not used enough by Renney.

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01-17-2008, 09:51 AM
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wereback
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Being a hockey coach at the high school level i understand how a time out can change momentum. But this is the NHL and thats what veteran leadership is supposed to do.

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01-17-2008, 11:11 AM
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a time out in the pitt game would have only given malkin crosby another rest and MORE ice time. You only get one timeout so i'd rather see it saved for late in the game or any time that the guys on the ice really need a rest. Calling it after a goal does nothing since theres going to be 10 new guys out on the ice within seconds. i'd rather see it not used then have a shift where we're dead and the other team is skating circles around us

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01-17-2008, 12:44 PM
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Time outs are overrated?

I'd imagine that if they were the NHL would do away with them.

I do agree that Renney doesn't know when to use his timeouts, but think I know why. He saves them for the end of the game just in case he needs to give Jags a rest while the Rangers are down a goal.

Fish - it's pretty common to call a timeout after a couple quick goals. What's it meant to do? For starters, it breaks of the flow and momentum. There are many other benefits, but perhaps you should here them from those who are on the bench when they're called to say how it affects them.

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01-17-2008, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
Just kind of a general observation. Games can be won or lost at the beginning or middle of a game. When a team like Pittsburgh blitzes you for a couple of goals in a short span, and your team is playing like crap, calling a timeout can help win you the game right there.:
Don't agree at all. Plus, the teams drive and intensity was there throughout the whole game except for a few breakdowns. It wasn't that the team stopped skating or lacked effort. 'calling a timeout can help win you a game' - i've maybe seen 3 instances of this in my entire lifetime of watching hockey

Timeouts=small potatoes

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01-17-2008, 02:27 PM
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I see Inferno's point, and i'll back him on this one. I dont think its as influential, but i see where its going.

Basically in a nutshell its pointing out that Renney is more concerned with the X's and O's than the teams psyche. And thats true, thats why he does things like take out Dawes, or putting the 4th line out when they shouldnt be playing.

He thinks too much. Sometimes a timeout can be used for other reasons like MOTIVATION. Something Renney has no clue about (and hes admitted it).

Its not so much when he takes them but WHY.

Its a sign of his coaching style.

---

On a side note, i wish teams had 2 timeouts instead of one, for this reason - which is why Renney is so shy to use his timeout other than strategy purposes.

But there is a time and a place for timeouts as such and we've seldom seen Renney use them - there have been plenty of occasions this season when the team has imploded for a quick 2 or 3 goals against that could have been retarded by a timeout.

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01-17-2008, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I see Inferno's point, and i'll back him on this one. I dont think its as influential, but i see where its going.

Basically in a nutshell its pointing out that Renney is more concerned with the X's and O's than the teams psyche. And thats true, thats why he does things like take out Dawes, or putting the 4th line out when they shouldnt be playing.

He thinks too much. Sometimes a timeout can be used for other reasons like MOTIVATION. Something Renney has no clue about (and hes admitted it).

Its not so much when he takes them but WHY.

Its a sign of his coaching style.

---

On a side note, i wish teams had 2 timeouts instead of one, for this reason - which is why Renney is so shy to use his timeout other than strategy purposes.

But there is a time and a place for timeouts as such and we've seldom seen Renney use them - there have been plenty of occasions this season when the team has imploded for a quick 2 or 3 goals against that could have been retarded by a timeout.
Let's not forget, giving teams an extra timeout could also work against us.

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01-17-2008, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wereback View Post
Being a hockey coach at the high school level i understand how a time out can change momentum. But this is the NHL and thats what veteran leadership is supposed to do.
That's not true at all.

Can the Vets help? yes, but even the best of the best sometimes allow themselves to get played out of their game plan and it's at those times that a TO helps.

Vets are more useful in the locker and on the bench, but trying to calm a situation on the ice that's gotten out of hand is not something that a vet can control. That's when your bench boss needs to stop the action, let everyone correct themselves (a spot where a Vet is very useful) and get back at it.

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01-17-2008, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
Let's not forget, giving teams an extra timeout could also work against us.
good point, but im talking about using the timeout as a momentum stopper. a time to refocus. judging by some of the replies i take it im mostly on my own, but i dont think its always important to save everything for the final few seconds. seriously, how often does a team score in the final minute of a game to win/tie it? im fairly sure it happens less frequently than a team basically winning a game when another team loses a step, and the other team blitzes them for several goals in a few minutes time.

i mean, the ottawa senators beat us twice already this year by scoring a bunch of goals in a short time period where our play started to lag, its the same kinda principal. call a timeout when you start to see the focus drop and the other team starts to take advantage of it.

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01-17-2008, 03:02 PM
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I dunno...

I can't believe that timeouts rarely work, and I think is very common towards the end of the game when trying to rest players with the net open. It's not a high percentage, but heck, you take 30 shots in a game to score 2, so what is high percentage in this business.

I do seem to remember one timeout during a game - Keenan used it - nobody said a word and I believe the Rangers were down 2-0 - I think everyone on the Rangers' bench, including the guy who scored the ensuing hattrick, would say the timeout was very useful.

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01-17-2008, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I can't believe that timeouts rarely work, and I think is very common towards the end of the game when trying to rest players with the net open. It's not a high percentage, but heck, you take 30 shots in a game to score 2, so what is high percentage in this business.

I do seem to remember one timeout during a game - Keenan used it - nobody said a word and I believe the Rangers were down 2-0 - I think everyone on the Rangers' bench, including the guy who scored the ensuing hattrick, would say the timeout was very useful.


exactly my point.

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01-17-2008, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I would also suggest that sending out Orr for some fireworks is another tactic not used enough by Renney.
lol are you kidding me? colton orr is already on the ice way too much.

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01-17-2008, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I do seem to remember one timeout during a game - Keenan used it - nobody said a word and I believe the Rangers were down 2-0 - I think everyone on the Rangers' bench, including the guy who scored the ensuing hattrick, would say the timeout was very useful.
I guess that settles it. You only had to go back 1000+ games to find a good example

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01-17-2008, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
Just kind of a general observation. Games can be won or lost at the beginning or middle of a game. When a team like Pittsburgh blitzes you for a couple of goals in a short span, and your team is playing like crap, calling a timeout can help win you the game right there.

It just kinda bugs me that Renney will only use his timeouts under 3 circumstances.

1)to prepare for a 5 on 3
2)to rest guys after an icing when leading or tied in a game late in the 3rd.
3)to rest guys for an offensive zone faceoff when tied or trailing in a game.

I dont think i have ever seen Renney take a time out after a team scores like 2 or 3 super quick goals, or after a team has like a dozen chances in a row and henrik stands on his head. Call me crazy but I really wish he would more effectively use his timeouts. maybe this little mini-rant didnt deserve its own thread, but im not sure it belongs in the fire renney page, since i think it does warrant some discussion....

i mean, am i the only one who thinks timeouts should be used early in the game if the situation warrants it? because it sure doesnt seem like renney does
Actually, with regard to #3, Renney usually puts the 4th line on the ice for an offensive zone faceoff. Why, I have no idea.

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01-17-2008, 03:18 PM
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I was reliving my youth, abev...

still remember Mess coming over the boards after the timeout. I have pretty bad short-term memory, so I had to go back to the last timeout I could remember.

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01-17-2008, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
Actually, with regard to #3, Renney usually puts the 4th line on the ice for an offensive zone faceoff. Why, I have no idea.
its sad that he does that because Drury is better than Betts at the faceoff...Renney doesnt seem to know what hes doing sometimes and his unwillingness to use timeouts in crucial points of the game is really not giving this team the best chance to win every nite. Time outs may seem insignificant but they can really help calm a team down, get a play put together, or just slow the game down. Renney has to learn about time outs...among other things

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01-17-2008, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I can't believe that timeouts rarely work, and I think is very common towards the end of the game when trying to rest players with the net open. It's not a high percentage, but heck, you take 30 shots in a game to score 2, so what is high percentage in this business.

I do seem to remember one timeout during a game - Keenan used it - nobody said a word and I believe the Rangers were down 2-0 - I think everyone on the Rangers' bench, including the guy who scored the ensuing hattrick, would say the timeout was very useful.
You forget that we almost let up a goal on the very next shift, it didnt stop any momentum at all. That change in momentum happend in the 2nd period when Kovie scored our 1st goal.

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01-17-2008, 03:30 PM
  #23
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Agreed. He never uses his time outs correctly, but this all leads back to the argument of...


FIRE HIM.

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01-17-2008, 03:31 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
Just kind of a general observation. Games can be won or lost at the beginning or middle of a game. When a team like Pittsburgh blitzes you for a couple of goals in a short span, and your team is playing like crap, calling a timeout can help win you the game right there.

It just kinda bugs me that Renney will only use his timeouts under 3 circumstances.

1)to prepare for a 5 on 3
2)to rest guys after an icing when leading or tied in a game late in the 3rd.
3)to rest guys for an offensive zone faceoff when tied or trailing in a game.

I dont think i have ever seen Renney take a time out after a team scores like 2 or 3 super quick goals, or after a team has like a dozen chances in a row and henrik stands on his head. Call me crazy but I really wish he would more effectively use his timeouts. maybe this little mini-rant didnt deserve its own thread, but im not sure it belongs in the fire renney page, since i think it does warrant some discussion....

i mean, am i the only one who thinks timeouts should be used early in the game if the situation warrants it? because it sure doesnt seem like renney does
To be honest, timeouts are rarely used in that instance. There are so many TV time outs that they're often not needed. I'm guessing you're a basketball fan? In basketball a team can go on a run of several points before there is any stoppage in play, let alone a TV time out. Because of that, coaches use a timeout to re-group, and to try to diffuse their opponent's momentum.

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01-17-2008, 04:10 PM
  #25
Inferno
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Originally Posted by kurt View Post
To be honest, timeouts are rarely used in that instance. There are so many TV time outs that they're often not needed. I'm guessing you're a basketball fan? In basketball a team can go on a run of several points before there is any stoppage in play, let alone a TV time out. Because of that, coaches use a timeout to re-group, and to try to diffuse their opponent's momentum.
no, im a hockey fan. the last basketball game i watched was the knicks losing the spurs in game 5 of the nba championship.

when was that like 10 years ago?

there are many timeouts, but do they happen immediately after a goal? imho, its about momentum. perhaps you are right, in the middle of a game if you see a team shift after shift dominate you, then you can settle the club down during the tv timeout, but usually after a goal is scored, you get a few seconds while the team celebrates, then its right back out there.

i dunno, guess im kinda semi-solo on this one

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