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Old
01-25-2008, 05:09 PM
  #26
On Axis
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It'd be tough for the Blues to make a 180 into a situation like the Leafs are in right now. I think Checketts & SCP Worldwide are doing a terrific job right now, rebuilding while staying competitive ( although the past few games haven't been exactly competitive). I'm not an expert on the Leafs, but MLSE had a "win-now" influence on the team (signing McCabe to his contract, signing Kubina, Blake, Rask for Raycroft, etc). Their prospect base had some nice players (Stralman, Kulemin, Wellwood, Stajan, Steen, but not at the level the Blues' base is currently at). The Blues' new management has made its share of bad moves, but they are intent on keeping the prospect base stable, and making moves for the benefit of now and later.

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01-25-2008, 05:23 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by BluesDarb View Post
I was respecting your analysis until this point. Salvy has been the most consistant, best defenseman the team has had all year.

He certainly doesn't fade into the background.

My point wasn't that he isn't good, its just that he is a non-factor in most games.

While I agree most defenceman should go un-noticed, it gets noticed that the need more from the D, so while he isnt losing games - he isnt winning games either.

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01-25-2008, 06:22 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by St Lou Is Blue View Post
My point wasn't that he isn't good, its just that he is a non-factor in most games.

While I agree most defenceman should go un-noticed, it gets noticed that the need more from the D, so while he isnt losing games - he isnt winning games either.
Dude, this is exactly why you've lost credibility here. You think playing rock solid in your role doesn't help win games?

Without defense you don't win. Salvador has lived up to everything he ought to be. Replacing him does not fix the issues this team has.

C'mon.

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01-25-2008, 06:44 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by St Lou Is Blue View Post
My point wasn't that he isn't good, its just that he is a non-factor in most games.

While I agree most defenceman should go un-noticed, it gets noticed that the need more from the D, so while he isnt losing games - he isnt winning games either.
Keeping the other team from scoring 8 times (more than they already do) does not equal a non-factor.

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01-25-2008, 07:25 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by BluesDarb View Post
I really want him resigned. I want Jax/Bax gone and Polak/Woywitka/Wagner coming in to replace Jax/Bax/Walker.
Tottally agree, from the games/hilights i've seen it seems that backman and jackman are by far the worst d-men on this team, apart from the occasional game where Jax gets nasty, but I'd say Wagner is capable of doing the offensive job we've been waiting for from Backman the last two years, now; and although I like what walker does for us as the #7 dman, both Polak and Woywitka have a greater upside and deserve to be playing in the NHL

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01-25-2008, 10:44 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by BluesDarb View Post
Dude, this is exactly why you've lost credibility here. You think playing rock solid in your role doesn't help win games?

Without defense you don't win. Salvador has lived up to everything he ought to be. Replacing him does not fix the issues this team has.

C'mon.
Rock Solid??? Are you kidding?? I'll give you the point he has played his part in our own zone, but he hasn't done anything to get us goals. 9 points with 1 goal is just not enough anymore.

I'd rather give Wagner some time instead, he has a point less in 20 less games played.

This is the new NHL. Great D is only half the battle, but you need to be able to help on both sides of the rink.

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01-25-2008, 10:50 PM
  #32
BluesDarb
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Originally Posted by St Lou Is Blue View Post
Rock Solid??? Are you kidding?? I'll give you the point he has played his part in our own zone, but he hasn't done anything to get us goals. 9 points with 1 goal is just not enough anymore.

I'd rather give Wagner some time instead, he has a point less in 20 less games played.

This is the new NHL. Great D is only half the battle, but you need to be able to help on both sides of the rink.
You've got to be kidding.

SALVADOR IS NOT ON THE TEAM TO SCORE.

Blaming him for our offensive woes is just plain stupid.

How about blaming Brewer/Backman/Jackman.....Brewer was supposed to be a scoring d-man, Backman was supposed to be a scoring d-man, and Jackman was projected to be a good off/def combo....Salvador is, was, and ever shall be a STAY AT HOME D-MAN.

Honestly, you're digging a hole here with your refusal to come off this twisted logic.

Salvador = the Blues BEST defenseman this year. Period.

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01-25-2008, 11:31 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by BluesDarb View Post
You've got to be kidding.

SALVADOR IS NOT ON THE TEAM TO SCORE.

Blaming him for our offensive woes is just plain stupid.

How about blaming Brewer/Backman/Jackman.....Brewer was supposed to be a scoring d-man, Backman was supposed to be a scoring d-man, and Jackman was projected to be a good off/def combo....Salvador is, was, and ever shall be a STAY AT HOME D-MAN.

Honestly, you're digging a hole here with your refusal to come off this twisted logic.

Salvador = the Blues BEST defenseman this year. Period.
Dude, I never said Bryce was crap, i just said he doesnt stand out. My point about the D as a WHOLE, is we need more offense from them - i include the whole unit. Nobody will try to hang the season on salvador, but we can all agree we need the D to do more.

Being the best Blues defenceman isn't really a great accomplishment right now.

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01-26-2008, 12:11 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by St Lou Is Blue View Post
Dude, I never said Bryce was crap, i just said he doesnt stand out. My point about the D as a WHOLE, is we need more offense from them - i include the whole unit. Nobody will try to hang the season on salvador, but we can all agree we need the D to do more.

Being the best Blues defenceman isn't really a great accomplishment right now.
You're still missing the point. Salvador DOES STAND OUT as the best defenseman on the team. The fact that you only seem to "notice" the defense when they are scoring goals is what causes the lost credibility on the matter of defensive defensemen. That is my whole point.

If a defenseman doing his job incredibly well doesn't "stand out" to you, I don't know what to tell ya.

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01-26-2008, 09:11 AM
  #35
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God knows I've bagged on Salvador most of the season, but he's doing his job when you don't notice him. There's things I wish he'd improve on, but I realize he's not going to be a top-4 defenseman going forward [which disappoints me, I thought he had the ability to at least chip in offensively from time to time, not twice a year].

St Lou is Blue is absolutely correct, though - the defense has to start scoring more. Sadly, Backman looks like he'll never produce consistently, Brewer's upside is limited to about 8 goals, the trio of McKee, Salvador, and Jackman is going to max out at 3-5 goals, and if Walker gets one in a season it's all he's going to get.

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01-26-2008, 09:28 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
God knows I've bagged on Salvador most of the season, but he's doing his job when you don't notice him. There's things I wish he'd improve on, but I realize he's not going to be a top-4 defenseman going forward [which disappoints me, I thought he had the ability to at least chip in offensively from time to time, not twice a year].

St Lou is Blue is absolutely correct, though - the defense has to start scoring more. Sadly, Backman looks like he'll never produce consistently, Brewer's upside is limited to about 8 goals, the trio of McKee, Salvador, and Jackman is going to max out at 3-5 goals, and if Walker gets one in a season it's all he's going to get.
I think you hit it right on the button. Unless Salvador is going to sign for something low (2.5 million), I see no reason to resign him. You have McKee, Polak, and Hellstrom that can give you the same thing. Some one trick pony D-man will be sitting out there looking for work at free agency. Salvy has had a career year. If he has value of over a 3rd round pick, then the Blues better trade him. He have depth at what he does. I don't deny that he has been our best defenseman this year, but Pagnozzi played his rear off in a contract year too. Do it twice before you give him a big pay day.

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01-26-2008, 09:49 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by PerryTurnbullfan View Post
I think you hit it right on the button. Unless Salvador is going to sign for something low (2.5 million), I see no reason to resign him. You have McKee, Polak, and Hellstrom that can give you the same thing. Some one trick pony D-man will be sitting out there looking for work at free agency. Salvy has had a career year. If he has value of over a 3rd round pick, then the Blues better trade him. He have depth at what he does. I don't deny that he has been our best defenseman this year, but Pagnozzi played his rear off in a contract year too. Do it twice before you give him a big pay day.
Maybe I am crazy...but I think Bryce will stay with us for around 2 mill per year. (not bad for a 5th dman and a vet that can be there for the transition of EJ, Woywitka, Polak, Wagner and does the little things on D)

That is of course if we trade Jackman and Backman this year.

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Old
01-26-2008, 10:14 AM
  #38
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We should eventually have a thread on what we expect this team to look like in 2008-09, 2009-10 and 2010-11. Not only would it be an interesting exercise, but it would give some insight into how everyone thinks prospects will develop and how guys we currently have fit in [if they do] to future plans when their contracts expire.

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01-26-2008, 12:44 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
We should eventually have a thread on what we expect this team to look like in 2008-09, 2009-10 and 2010-11. Not only would it be an interesting exercise, but it would give some insight into how everyone thinks prospects will develop and how guys we currently have fit in [if they do] to future plans when their contracts expire.
Great idea.

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Old
01-26-2008, 01:55 PM
  #40
General Veers
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I said we need more O from the D months ago! It's too bad I can't look through all my past posts to find it, they only go back to December.
Oh wait, here it is. Now excuse me while I pat myself on the back.
Originally posted on 11/29/07:
Chris and Al were providing OFFENSE. I've tried to stop complaining about the d-men because you're right, they don't make any more f-ups than any other 4 guys on other teams. The problem is we get little offense from the d plus we have been a one line team at times. If Brewer and Backman were good on the PP then we wouldn't have to trot Jacks out there to play on the 1st unit. It seems like the days of Jeff Brown and Steve Duchesne are gone. Steve wasn't a rock out there, but at least he could play on the top 6 plus 1st unit PP. If it wasn't for EJ and the great showing he's had on the point, I'd be longing for the days of Doug Crossman!
EDIT: start with Brew: add 1 G and 5 A making his total 11
Backs: 2 5 13
Jacks: 1 6 8
McKee: 0 4 6
Wags, EJ, and Salvy all keep the same point total. To me, this would make a HUGE difference in our win total.

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Old
01-26-2008, 03:08 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by St Lou Is Blue View Post
Great D is only half the battle, but you need to be able to help on both sides of the rink.
I agree. Playing in all three zones makes for great defense, not just helping your goalie.

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Old
01-26-2008, 03:15 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by DarthVTEC View Post
I said we need more O from the D months ago! It's too bad I can't look through all my past posts to find it, they only go back to December. .
I have been saying it since I signed up here.

Brewer, Backman and Jackman were not doing much last year on offense either.

And we signed 2 of the 3 last year to extensions. (Luckily Jackman was a 1 year deal).

FYI Darth: You should be able to find posts from years ago on here.

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Old
01-26-2008, 04:53 PM
  #43
General Veers
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Originally Posted by TrustInJarmo View Post
I have been saying it since I signed up here.

Brewer, Backman and Jackman were not doing much last year on offense either.

And we signed 2 of the 3 last year to extensions. (Luckily Jackman was a 1 year deal).

FYI Darth: You should be able to find posts from years ago on here.
Oh, ok. Well, here ya go, take this!


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Old
01-26-2008, 05:27 PM
  #44
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Darth,
Can I have one too. I feel left out.

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Old
01-26-2008, 06:05 PM
  #45
General Veers
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Darth,
Can I have one too. I feel left out.
Here ya go buddy!

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