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Old
01-26-2008, 12:30 PM
  #1
txbluesfan44
 
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2008 -2009 Blues

Taking IB's suggestion that we eventually predict what the Blues will look like in 2008-2009, 2009-2010 and beyond, here's my attempt to get this started for 2008-2009:

Kariya - McDonald - Boyes
Oshie - Tkachuk - Perron
Stempniak - Berglund - Backes
Hinote/King - McClem/RJ - Mayers

Brewer - EJ
Mckee - Wagner
Polak - Salvador
Backman

Legace
Toivonen

Comments: Love the three scoring lines and the great checking/energy line, but the defense still would lack scoring and a true PP quarterback. Ideally we'd find takers for Backman and McKee and re-sign Jackman and sign Dan Boyle-TB. Finally, I'd love to see Ben Bishop sign and tear up Peoria next year.


Last edited by txbluesfan44: 01-26-2008 at 05:48 PM.
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01-26-2008, 01:58 PM
  #2
Brandur
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Kariya ---- --- Berglund ---- Boyes
Perron ------- Tkachuk ----- Oshie
Stempniak ----McDonald ---- Lemtyugov
Porter/King --- RJ ---------- Backes

Brewer ------ EJ
Mckee ------ Wagner
Polak ------- Salvador
Woywitka---- Brooks/DuPont

Legace
Toivonen

Players to trade, waive, or go UFA:

Rucinsky. Didn't pan out. Lost a step or two. Needs great chemistry with linemates to perform. Still strong defensively & great on penalty kill, but is a liability on offense. If traded, 2nd tier prospect or a 2nd round '08 pick would be a good return.

McClement. Still a very young player, but appears to have topped out. Works hard, but still lacks consistency. Gets out-classed trying to do to much, rather than playing his role. Hard to let him go, as he may still have hidden potential, but he will lose his roster spot to rookies with more talent (Berglund, Oshie, Possibly Drazenovic or Talbot). If traded, 2nd tier prospect + a 2nd round '08 pick would be a good return.

Hinote. Great team player. Tough as nails. Sets great example with work ethic. Earns the occasional points through sheer determination, rather than skill. Will be bumped off the roster by the likes of Porter, Stastny, or possibly Reaves. If traded, 4th round '08 pick + 2nd round '09 pick would be a good return.

Mayers. One of the best utility forwards in the game. His versatility, speed, toughness and leadership will be sorely missed, but the Blues desperately need more offensive talent, and Mayers will likely be sacrificed to make room for a more balanced attack. The arrival of Oshie & Berglund will force Backes into Mayers role. If traded, 1st round '08 pick + future considerations (2nd round '09 if resigned) would be a good return.

Backman. Enough has been said about him elsewhere. Get whatever we can for him. Wagner & Woywitka are simply better players. He won't be missed. If traded, 2nd round '08 pick + 2nd round '09 pick--OR--1st round '08 pick would be a fantastic return, but I would jump at the best offer.

Jackman. Fan favorite, but lacks durability and hasn't adapted well to new NHL rules. He's practically timid compared to the beast he used to be. Polak will more than compensate for the loss of Jackman's grit. 1st round '08 pick + 4th round '08 pick + top tier prospect would be a good return.

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01-26-2008, 03:03 PM
  #3
StLooFrenchy
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I have some issues with your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandur View Post
Rucinsky. Didn't pan out. Lost a step or two. Needs great chemistry with linemates to perform. Still strong defensively & great on penalty kill, but is a liability on offense. If traded, 2nd tier prospect or a 2nd round '08 pick would be a good return.
Getting that much for Marty is a GM's wet dream. 3rd or, more likely, a 4th is realistic. He is finished.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandur View Post
McClement. Still a very young player, but appears to have topped out. Works hard, but still lacks consistency. Gets out-classed trying to do to much, rather than playing his role. Hard to let him go, as he may still have hidden potential, but he will lose his roster spot to rookies with more talent (Berglund, Oshie, Possibly Drazenovic or Talbot). If traded, 2nd tier prospect + a 2nd round '08 pick would be a good return.
At this stage of his carreer it is not wise to give up on him. How can you tell he has topped out? Because this season he isn't lighting the lamp? NEWS FLASH: There are a LOT of Blues not lighting the lamp. If anyone out there thought that J Mac was going to be the offensive face of the team, I've got a bridge for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandur View Post
Hinote. Great team player. Tough as nails. Sets great example with work ethic. Earns the occasional points through sheer determination, rather than skill. Will be bumped off the roster by the likes of Porter, Stastny, or possibly Reaves. If traded, 4th round '08 pick + 2nd round '09 pick would be a good return.
Agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandur View Post
Mayers. One of the best utility forwards in the game. His versatility, speed, toughness and leadership will be sorely missed, but the Blues desperately need more offensive talent, and Mayers will likely be sacrificed to make room for a more balanced attack. The arrival of Oshie & Berglund will force Backes into Mayers role. If traded, 1st round '08 pick + future considerations (2nd round '09 if resigned) would be a good return.
To expect a first round pick for Jammers is a crack dream. You are, on one hand, overvalueing him as to his attributes, then on the other hand, say he isn't good enough to stay. He needs to stay here in a 3rd, or better yet, 4th line role where he can bring the physicality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandur View Post
Backman. Enough has been said about him elsewhere. Get whatever we can for him. Wagner & Woywitka are simply better players. He won't be missed. If traded, 2nd round '08 pick + 2nd round '09 pick--OR--1st round '08 pick would be a fantastic return, but I would jump at the best offer.
Agree about Wagner & Woywitka. A first would be fantastic; as in fantasy. 2nd is more realistic, yet still a reach at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandur View Post
Jackman. Fan favorite, but lacks durability and hasn't adapted well to new NHL rules. He's practically timid compared to the beast he used to be. Polak will more than compensate for the loss of Jackman's grit. 1st round '08 pick + 4th round '08 pick + top tier prospect would be a good return.
Nobody knows how Polak will be in the Bigs. We know how Jax is, to say he is "timid" is almost character assassination. I think that the expectation level for Jax is WAY too high. He is not, nor will he ever be, a dominant D-man. Remember who his partner was in his early years before you say he has regressed.

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01-26-2008, 03:06 PM
  #4
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So my take on the next 3 seasons:

(Lines could vary obviously)

2008-2009 Possible Roster:

Perron-McDonald-Boyes/UFA (pending what Boyes wants)
Kariya-Tkachuk-Stempniak
Oshie-McClement-Backes
King-Mayers-Hinote

McKee-EJ
Salvador-Brewer
Woywitka-Wagner/Polak

Legace
Toivonen

I see Polak, Woywitka and Wagner going back and forth for 2 spots. Though if an injury arises...I could see all 3 starting majority of the season.

I think Jackman and Backman will both be traded before next July.

Boyes, like I have stated earlier, I think JD will do all he can to bring him back...but if Boyes heart is set on getting the money...than he might be gone. And we might go after a UFA this summer (if Boyes doesn't want to re-sign with us).

I could see us coming to an offer with Backes. Since he is the big guy in front of the net that we need for years to come.

I want Ryan Johnson back...but I don't see any room for him. I think management is thinking either McClement or Johnson (since we have so many 3rd and 4th liners already). Even though I want them both back.

Berglund I believe will start in the AHL and come up sometime during the season.



2009-2010 Possible Roster:


Perron-Berglund-Boyes/UFA (pending on what Boyes decided in the summer of 08)
Kariya-McDonald/Tkachuck-Oshie
Stempniak-Backes-Lemtyugov
King-Kana/McClement-Mayers

McKee-EJ
Salvador-Brewer
Woywitka-Wagner/Polak


Legace/Schwarz (not that Schwarz would start...just mean it will be one or the other with Hannu)
Toivonen

I could see us possibly re-signing Manny...because I doubt we have a goalie in our system ready in a year and a half...depending on how far Hannu will develop.

I could see us letting Hinote go or be traded and not be re-signed.

Possibly see either McDonald OR Tkachuck coming back this year...it will depend on who is performing in 2009 and also who takes the less amount of money.

I think the Blues will sign almost no one in UFA the summer of 2010...because we have Perron, Berglund, Erik Johnson, Lemtyugov, Kana, Junland, DJ King all up for RFA that summer and the majority of money will need to go toward most of them. Hopefully contracts are worked out the summer before to avoid RFA on these guys.


2010-2011 Possible Roster:

Perron-Berglund-Boyes/UFA (depending on what Boyes decided in the summer of 08)
Kariya-McDonald/Tkachuck-Oshie
Backes-Eller-Lemtyugov
King-McClement-Mayers

Polak-EJ
Brewer-Salvador/Junland
Woywitka-Wagner

Toivonen
Bishop

Who will be our starter in net?? If we don't re-sign Manny in the summer of 2009...I have a feeling it will be Hannu or Ben in net in 2011 for us.

I could see us trading Stempniak before the 2011 deadline (Who will be a possible UFA) like I said in other threads...I think we should cash in NOW for Stempniak before his value goes down much more. I like him, but I think he won't keep up his pace of last year or get much better. And if we can turn a 5th round pick into a solid prospect or a 1st round pick...I would pull the trigger on a deal now.

I could see Kariya wanting to come back because he sees the great young talent in Oshie, Eller, Lemtyugov, Berglund, etc.

I could see McKee be letting go or traded in the spring of 2010.

I don't think Fairchild or Cole will be ready in 2010...possibly in 2011 or 2012.

These are all guesses of course...we can't see who we will sign in UFA...nor trades that are bound to happen.

But like Irish said, this would be interesting to look back on in a few years...


Last edited by TrustInJarmo*: 01-26-2008 at 04:24 PM.
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Old
01-26-2008, 04:18 PM
  #5
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2008-09:

Kariya-McDonald-Boyes
Oshie-Tkachuk-Perron
Stempniak-Berglund-Backes
R.J.-MCClement-Mayers

McKee-E.J.
Brewer-Salvador
Polak-Wagner
Woywitka

Legace
Toivonen

2009-10:

Kariya-Berglund-Boyes
Perron-Oshie-Backes
Stempniak-Eller-Lemtyugov
Porter-McClement-Mayers

(2-way UFA or traded)-E.J.
McKee-Brewer
Polak-Junland/Woywitka
Woywitka/Junland/Hellström

Legace
Toivonen/Schwarz

2010-11:

Oshie-Berglund-Perron
Kariya-McDonald-Boyes
Stempniak-Eller-Lemtyugov
Porter-McClement-Backes
(maybe prospect gained in 2008 trade makes top 9)

UFA from 2009-E.J.
Polak-Junland/Hellström
McKee-Brewer
Hellström/Woywitka
(maybe 2008 draft choice or trade prospect makes top 7)

Toivonen/Bishop/Schwarz
Toivonen/Bishop/Schwarz (pick 'em)

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01-26-2008, 04:30 PM
  #6
Brandur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StLooFrenchy View Post
I have some issues with your post.
I expected to get flamed after posting this, but you've respectfully listed your points of contention, and I appreciate that.

Regarding Rucinsky:
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLooFrenchy View Post
Getting that much for Marty is a GM's wet dream. 3rd or, more likely, a 4th is realistic. He is finished.
I don't disagree. In my assessment of trade value I was conveying what I think will be the absolute best case scenario. In the case of Rucinsky, I admit that this was a reach. But I don't think he is finished, and I do think he would have value for a team looking for a cheap penalty killing forward capable of filling in on a scoring line or spot work on the power play. He would be a good offensive depth player on an already deep team with high post season aspirations.

In reference to Jay McClement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLooFrenchy View Post
At this stage of his carreer it is not wise to give up on him. How can you tell he has topped out? Because this season he isn't lighting the lamp? NEWS FLASH: There are a LOT of Blues not lighting the lamp. If anyone out there thought that J Mac was going to be the offensive face of the team, I've got a bridge for you.
I didn't say I could tell he has topped out. I said it appears that he has. I specifically mentioned that he may yet have untapped potential. I never expected J Mac to be lighting the lamp, or the offensive face of the team, so his lack of scoring this season isn't a factor in my assesment. I did expect him to win more key faceoffs and to build on the chemistry we saw last year between him, Stempniak and Backes, and he has disappointed. In any event, while I don't want to "give up on him", I do think that the Blues have more talented options for their third line center, and RJ has been too dominant in his role for McClement to push him out of that fourth line spot. Therefore, he is expendable.

In the case of Jamal Mayers:
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLooFrenchy View Post
To expect a first round pick for Jammers is a crack dream. You are, on one hand, overvalueing him as to his attributes, then on the other hand, say he isn't good enough to stay. He needs to stay here in a 3rd, or better yet, 4th line role where he can bring the physicality.
I distinctly remember an interview with John Davidson in which he stated that they received numerous offers for Mayers last year, and it was hard to turn down an extra first round pick. Mayers is highly regarded throughout the league. I hold him in high regard, as well--I never said he wasn't good enough to stay. Rather, we are committed to a rebuild, and their are younger, cheaper utility players in the system who are capable of filling his role and who also possess more scoring prowess. Specifically, I think Porter and Backes will be relegated to the fourth line. I also said Mayers speed, toughness and leadership would be sorely missed. Don't misunderstand me--I'm not campaigning to get rid of him--I just think I'm stating the obvious that his tenure with the Blues is nearly over.

On Backman:
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLooFrenchy View Post
Agree about Wagner & Woywitka. A first would be fantastic; as in fantasy. 2nd is more realistic, yet still a reach at this point.
Backman's statistics will definitely bring down his value, but defensemen have brought a premium at the last few trade deadlines, and I think he will fetch a bigger return than most would expect. That may be unwarranted optimism, but I don't think it's fantasy. In any event, any return for him is just icing on the cake, because I believe moving him will be addition by subtraction.

As for Jackman:
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLooFrenchy View Post
Nobody knows how Polak will be in the Bigs. We know how Jax is, to say he is "timid" is almost character assassination. I think that the expectation level for Jax is WAY too high. He is not, nor will he ever be, a dominant D-man. Remember who his partner was in his early years before you say he has regressed.
Polak has played in the Bigs, if only for a short stint, and he didn't look out of place at all. I didn't say Jax is "timid". I said that, in comparison to the play we have grown to expect from him, he is playing timid. He's had perhaps three strong games this season where his physical play really stood out. Otherwise, he hasn't had much impact. I don't think the expectation level for Jax is too high. Playing with MacInnis didn't make him tough, mean, gritty, nasty, etc. That was already part of his game, and he seems to have lost it. That has nothing to do with his linemates. Playing with MacInnis, however, should have made him a smarter player capable of making quick, responsible decisions with the puck. He simply isn't successful when he isn't playing an aggressive, physical style, and he simply hasn't stayed healthy for any stretch when he has played that way. In any event, much as with Backman, I think somebody will be willing to part with a ransom to get him.

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01-26-2008, 05:56 PM
  #7
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Quote:
2010-11:

Oshie-Berglund-Perron
Kariya-McDonald-Boyes
Stempniak-Eller-Lemtyugov
Porter-McClement-Backes
(maybe prospect gained in 2008 trade makes top 9)

UFA from 2009-E.J.
Polak-Junland/Hellström
McKee-Brewer
Hellström/Woywitka
(maybe 2008 draft choice or trade prospect makes top 7)

Toivonen/Bishop/Schwarz
Toivonen/Bishop/Schwarz (pick 'em)
I like these lines. I think we will see Cole and maybe Fairchild challenge for time w/ the Blues by 2010/11.

Here's my prediction for 2010/11:

Oshie-Berglund-Perron
Kariya-McDonald-Lemtyugov
Stempniak-Eller-Palushaj
Porter-Drazenovic-Backes

EJ - Cole
Brewer - Polak
Wagner - Junland
ex. Hellstrom/Fairchild

Legace, Toivo/Schwartz/Bishop

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01-26-2008, 06:06 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandur View Post

I distinctly remember an interview with John Davidson in which he stated that they received numerous offers for Mayers last year, and it was hard to turn down an extra first round pick. Mayers is highly regarded throughout the league.

Minor quibble but I remember hearing Toronto offering a 2nd (no one offered a 1st, I believe)

I thought your 1st post in this thread was spot on ...specifically I appreciated your players to trade or waive portion w/explanation section.

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01-26-2008, 07:38 PM
  #9
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I'm only going to deal with next year because I think after next season JD and co will be doing a major Evaluation on the "progress of the rebuild" and might make a couple of radical changes to the team if we aren't where they expected us to be.

What I would do next year:
Trade Jackman, Backman and McClement for assorted picks at this years deadline.
Let Rucinsky, MJ and Walker walk as UFA's.

Next years lineup:

Kariya-Berglund-Boyes
(Kariya and Boyes are effective regardless of who they are with which makes this an ideal spot for Berglund to develope)

Perron-MacDonald-Oshie
(I am extremely interested in finding out if Oshie and Perron have good chemistry together, they could be a dynamic offensive pairing if they do(Perron being the Super set-up man and Oshie being the finisher); MacDonald adds some speed, skill and veteran know-how to the line)

Stempniak-Tkachuk-Backes
(while the Kariya/Boyes combo may be our most productive offensive unit and MacDonald/Perron may be our most talented, this line is actually our most well rounded and I see no reason to split them up)

Hinote/King-RJ-Mayers
(Possibly the best energy line in the league)


Brewer - Salvador
(Top pairing until EJ takes the reigns as the #1 man)

FA Offensive D man(ideally Dan Boyle) - EJ
(EJ needs to focus more on his defensive duties and needs a partner that can shoulder the offensive load until he's ready)

McKee - Wagner
(your standard Puckmover/stay at home combo)

Polak/Woywitka
(an extra of each type of D man in case of injuries)

Manny-Toivonen

(I'm willing to give Toivonen another shot as the Back-up)

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01-26-2008, 07:42 PM
  #10
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I find it interesting how almost everyone believes that Backman AND Jackman will not be on the roster come next Sept.

Hopefully we are all right!

Because if we are not...that means we are overpaying Jax and Backman is still doing nothing for us.

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Old
01-26-2008, 08:19 PM
  #11
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Oops! I forgot that Palushaj and Cole might be ready to challenge for a spot on The NHL team by 2010-11. Of course, it is very possible that a major trade or UFA signing will alter these lineups, but putting a name like that into the lineups makes little sense, as we have little chance of predicting correctly what players may be added.

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01-26-2008, 08:46 PM
  #12
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Here's my plan for the 2008-2009 season...

* Let go of Rucinsky, Mike Johnson, Walker, and Jackman - as they will be UFA's. We don't need the first 3 back - and Jackman will ask for too much. We will also be able to get rid of Cajanek's salary.

* Don't bring back McClement (RFA), so hopefully he signs elsewhere.

* Re-sign Ryan Johnson, Boyes, Toivonen, and Backes.

* Bring up Oshie and Berglund, and possibly another prospect like Lemtyugov.

* Let Salvador walk and let Wagner, Polak, and Woywitka move up to the show.

* TRY to trade Backman... we may not be successful though.

Lineup:

Kariya-Tkachuk-Boyes
Stempniak-McDonald-Perron
Oshie-Berglund-Backes
King-RJ-Mayers

Extras: Hinote, maybe Lemtyugov

Brewer-EJ
McKee-Wagner
Polak-Woywitka/FA

Legace
Toivonen

---

Looks pretty solid, and I like seeing all the youngsters.

You guys that are doing the rosters all the way up until 2010-2011, why do you still have Kariya penciled in for the 10-11 season? His contract is up after the 09-10 season, and he will be like 36... with the youth movement, I doubt we will bring him back after that.

TIJ, I think your lineups look pretty accurate... obviously we don't know what the team will completely look like in a few years, but I think your projections look good. Robb_K, you didn't type in King's name over the next few years... well, we just signed him to a 3-year deal so I'm pretty sure he will have a spot on the 4th-line.

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01-26-2008, 08:59 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes McSnipes View Post

Robb_K, you didn't type in King's name over the next few years... well, we just signed him to a 3-year deal so I'm pretty sure he will have a spot on the 4th-line.
Yes, I assumed King would be with the team in 2009-10 and 2010-11, but probably will still be the fourth 4th liner, unless he surprises with a better defensive game and some improvement in his offensive game. Personally, I hope he does both things, so he can be a regular 4th liner and perform both the function of policeman and also regular checker on the checking/energy line.

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01-26-2008, 09:31 PM
  #14
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I'm going to wuss out on predicting the exact lineup that we'll see next year right now, but I do have a few predictions.

Out of Jackman/Backman/McKee/Walker-3 of the 4 will not be back next season.

Salvador will re-sign here. He, like Mayers, is I think an important team and community guy with a long tenure in St. Louis. The Blues will have a young defense and his veteran presence is important. Also, I see them wanting to keep the Brewer/Sal pairing next season.

With Johnson, Brewer, Sal, and one of the 4 above, we'll have 2 spots open. One will go to a young guy (Wagner/Polak/Woywitka). The other will be filled by a legit offensive defenseman via trade. I think our management realizes that lack of scoring is indeed a problem and the guy to help fix that problem instantly isn't currently here.

This really doesn't make much of a difference on our actual lineup, but I think Ian Cole gets signed this offseason and plays a full year in the AHL. He's already physically mature, and if he can end this season strongly, this could be his next developmental step.

The team will look to deal Jay McClement. He's still young and still has some trade value. He could be part of a package to land an offensive d-man.

Brad Boyes will be back, and will probably be overpayed. If this team doesn't play better after the All Star break, and we end up with a top 10 pick, this season has to be viewed as a bit of a disappointment. After the positive energy generated at the start of the season which brought fans back, having a disappointing season and then letting your best goalscorer, on a team that struggles to score, walk (Even if compensation picks are coming back) would be a PR mistake. The majority of the fans that this ownership group were able to win back probably aren't HFboards posters who value draft picks the way we do. I'm predicting 3 year deal for more money than we'd probably like. Note: This is largely dependent of how he finishes the season

Ryan Johnson and Dan Hinote will be back.

We'll leave 2 spots open for rookie forwards. Smart money is certainly on Oshie and Berglund but anything can happen. Eller or Lemtyugov could play spoiler. Sadly, injuries are always possible. Who knows, the team could get a huge surprise from one of their other prospects of 2008 draft picks. Those spots are Oshie's and Berglund's to lose though


Last edited by Checker*: 01-26-2008 at 09:37 PM.
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01-26-2008, 09:44 PM
  #15
StLooFrenchy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandur View Post


Polak has played in the Bigs, if only for a short stint, and he didn't look out of place at all. I didn't say Jax is "timid". I said that, in comparison to the play we have grown to expect from him, he is playing timid. He's had perhaps three strong games this season where his physical play really stood out. Otherwise, he hasn't had much impact. I don't think the expectation level for Jax is too high. Playing with MacInnis didn't make him tough, mean, gritty, nasty, etc. That was already part of his game, and he seems to have lost it. That has nothing to do with his linemates. Playing with MacInnis, however, should have made him a smarter player capable of making quick, responsible decisions with the puck. He simply isn't successful when he isn't playing an aggressive, physical style, and he simply hasn't stayed healthy for any stretch when he has played that way. In any event, much as with Backman, I think somebody will be willing to part with a ransom to get him.
Polak did not play enough to get a good read on him as a full timer. I liked what I saw, but a full year in the majors will show a players weaknesses as well as strengths. Not disagreeing with you on him, just being a little more cautious.

Playing with Al didn't make Jax tough, mean, gritty, or nasty; he was already all that. Playing with Mac allowed him to concentrate on just being the stay back bad ass, instead of trying to be a two-way defensemen, which he is not. If he had a suitable partner, he would be a stud. He is being used outside of his skill set, not his fault, but it is what it is.

By the way, this has been a pleasant tet-a-tet without the personal trash, thank you.

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01-26-2008, 10:18 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Checker View Post

We'll leave 2 spots open for rookie forwards. Smart money is certainly on Oshie and Berglund but anything can happen. Eller or Lemtyugov could play spoiler. Who knows, the team could get a huge surprise from one of their other prospects of 2008 draft picks.
I think that there's virtually no chance that Eller will be able to win a spot on The Blues' NHL roster next season. He needs to get a lot stronger to stand up to the NHL game. I'd be very surprised if he even comes to North America next season. I'll be happy if he even plays in The SEL next season. He's not going to beat out Berglund, who has all the moves, great offensive skills and sense, is significantly bigger and stronger at this point. He's not going to beat out 22 year old Oshie.

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01-26-2008, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Robb_K View Post
I think that there's virtually no chance that Eller will be able to win a spot on The Blues' NHL roster next season. He needs to get a lot stronger to stand up to the NHL game. I'd be very surprised if he even comes to North America next season. I'll be happy if he even plays in The SEL next season. He's not going to beat out Berglund, who has all the moves, great offensive skills and sense, is significantly bigger and stronger at this point. He's not going to beat out 22 year old Oshie.
I think he's a wildcard due to the fact we haven't really seen him in North America yet. Last season he was injured for our prospects camp. This year I assume he'll at least make the trip for that. Who knows what happens from there. Working with our strength and conditioning coach has apparently led to Perron putting on about 15 pounds of muscle according to the JD Q and A. I agree that him making the team would be a long long shot. However, I think he has the skill and desire to at least push the other two.

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01-26-2008, 10:27 PM
  #18
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I like these lines. I think we will see Cole and maybe Fairchild challenge for time w/ the Blues by 2010/11.
In 2010-11, Fairchild and Cole could be seniors in college. I watched Fairchild last night - he's not going to be NHL-ready in 3 years unless he takes a massive step ahead in his development.

Everyone undervalues what Mayers, Hinote, and McClement do for this team.
-- Mayers is a perfect 3rd/4th liner. Teams around the league would love to have him; championship teams need guys like him. He's also become a faceoff stud [57.4% last year, 56.7% this year]. If dealt, people would be begging for him halfway through the next season.
-- Hinote is a 4th liner. Period - and he does his job fine. Someone has to be willing to get dirty and wreak havoc at times; does anyone want/trust Porter in that role just yet? Any of the other offensively-oriented guys from Peoria? [Ryan Reaves isn't ready for this role yet - he needs at least 1 more year, probably 2.]
-- McClement is a 3rd-line guy. Period. Putting him on the 4th line is fine, but he's a defensive forward. Someone has to play defense - and if developed properly, McClement can fill that role nicely and add a touch of offense.

What I'd go with as the roster for '08-09 [in no particular order]:
Forward - Kariya, Tkachuk [only because he's going nowhere], Boyes, McDonald, Oshie, Berglund, McClement, Mayers, Hinote, King, Stempniak, Backes, Perron. If Lemtyugov can crack the roster, it's because he plays on the 3rd line ... not the 4th line; otherwise, he's one of the first call-ups from Peoria as needed and Trent Whitfield can be the 13th forward.
Defense - Brewer, McKee, Johnson, Wagner, Woywitka, Polak, Salvador. If Woywitka can't crack the opening night roster in '08-09, he never will.
Goal - Legace, Toivonen/Schwarz [whoever wins the job in camp]

Every UFA besides Salvador gets dealt at the deadline - if not dealt, they go unsigned. Sign Salvador for 2 years - no more, no less. Backman gets dealt at the draft unless he really turns it around in the next 34 games ... but I'm not holding my breath. Don't sign Boyes for 1 year [he'll make huge money], sign him for 4 years - he's not going to score 50 every year, but he'll get 30.


That sets us up for '09-10 as ...

Forward - Kariya, Stempniak, Boyes, Oshie, Berglund, Backes, McClement, Mayers, Lemtyugov, Perron, King, Porter [with Reaves ready in Peoria, and Eller possibly ready; McDonald as UFA; Tkachuk, Hinote, and Whitfield walk as UFA's]
Defense - Brewer, McKee, Johnson, and Salvador with Wagner and Polak as RFA, Hellstrom possibly ready and Junland in Peoria getting ready; Nikitin could be in this mix if he jumps to NA in '08-09
Goal - Schwarz/Toivonen with Legace as UFA, and Bishop in Peoria



DISCLAIMER: I threw this together in about 15 minutes; I could possibly be talked into changing some of the '09-10 projections, but I think '08-09 is fairly accurate.

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01-27-2008, 12:12 AM
  #19
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Everyone undervalues what Mayers, Hinote, and McClement do for this team.
I think most of us do appreciate what Mayers, Hinote & McClement do for the team. Just because someone advocates trading a player doesn't mean that player's contribution is undervalued. Personally, I simply believe that moving them for the right price represents greater long term value to our rebuilding club than whatever they would potentially contribute in the short-term on the ice. Perhaps I over-value the players I would replace them with, but I am willing to accept that risk on a rebuilding team.

Effectively, here is a break down of all I have suggested:
- promote Oshie (2nd line RW), (already planned)
- bump Backes to the 4th line RW (necessitated by arrival of Oshie)
- promote Berglund (1st line C)
- bump Walt and McDonald to 2nd and 3rd line C
- commit to RJ (4th line C)
- trade McClement (necessitated by arrival of Berglund, demotion of Walt & McDonald, and re-signing of RJ)
- trade Dan Hinote
- promote Porter (4th line LW)
- trade Mayers
- promote Lemmy (3d line RW)





Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
-- Mayers is a perfect 3rd/4th liner. Teams around the league would love to have him; championship teams need guys like him. He's also become a faceoff stud (57.4% last year, 56.7% this year). If dealt, people would be begging for him halfway through the next season.
Mayers versatility, which I have acknowledged, cannot be replaced, at least not by any one player. And I agree, any team aspiring to a championship would love to have him. I don't think many of us believe that the Blues have a snowball's chance in hades to be bona fide Cup contenders this year. That is why, at this stage in the Blues' rebuild and at this stage in Mayers' career, moving him for picks and prospects is, IMO, the best way to maximize his value to the club.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
-- Hinote is a 4th liner. Period - and he does his job fine. Someone has to be willing to get dirty and wreak havoc at times; does anyone want/trust Porter in that role just yet? Any of the other offensively-oriented guys from Peoria? (Ryan Reaves isn't ready for this role yet - he needs at least 1 more year, probably 2.)
Yes, I do want/trust Porter in that role. Porter has more offensive upside, is just as gritty as Hinote, is versatile enough to play any forward role or position (which eases the pain of losing Mayers), and all things considered, he is an upgrade, at least on a young rebuilding team. If we thought we were going to go deep in the playoffs, I would prefer to retain Hinote for his experience and leadership. But bear in mind, Porter was born in June of '85 and was a team mate of Oshie. He's physically mature, and has more skill and experience than the average utility type prospect. I think Porter and Backes on either side of RJ will make for one fast, mean and skilled 4th line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
-- McClement is a 3rd-line guy. Period. Putting him on the 4th line is fine, but he's a defensive forward. Someone has to play defense - and if developed properly, McClement can fill that role nicely and add a touch of offense.
If Berglund doesn't make the squad right away (a very real possibility, though I believe he will) it won't be necessary to move McClement. However, even if Berglund doesn't make the squad, it would be worthwhile to consider moving McClement anyway, if there is substantial interest in him, simply because: a) Stastny is more than capable of playing McClement's minutes until Berglund arrives and bumps everyone down the depth chart; b) this is a deep draft and it is in the club's interest to continue stockpiling young talent whenever possible; and c) however good he may be, there are better players waiting in the wings, and it is IMO imperative that those players be integrated as quickly as possible (however painful that might be) in order to ensure the team will have time to gel, develop chemistry, and be ready for a serious Cup run between 2010-2011.

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01-27-2008, 12:25 AM
  #20
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I think that there's virtually no chance that Eller will be able to win a spot on The Blues' NHL roster next season. He needs to get a lot stronger to stand up to the NHL game. I'd be very surprised if he even comes to North America next season. I'll be happy if he even plays in The SEL next season. He's not going to beat out Berglund, who has all the moves, great offensive skills and sense, is significantly bigger and stronger at this point. He's not going to beat out 22 year old Oshie.
I think Eller cold be just as successful as Perron if the Blues had the luxury of bringing him along slowly as they have for Perron. But you're right, it comes down to numbers. Unless he comes to town and impresses the pants off of Coach Murray, JD and the Blues brass, they simply will not have the roster space to keep him with the team. Any other potential rookies (Berglund, Oshie, Porter, Lemmy) are older and/or further along in development. Throwing Eller into the mix in that situation wouldn't be beneficial to him or the club, IMO. I disagree, however, that he isn't likely to come over. I'm confident he will show up for camp ready to make some noise, and I'm optimistic about his chances of winning a spot in Peoria, as well as his willingness to do so.

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01-27-2008, 12:31 AM
  #21
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Boyes-McDonald-Kariya
Stemp-Walt-Oshie
Perron-Berglund-Backes
King-RJ-Jammer
Hinote-McClement

Salvador-Brewer
McKee-EJ
Polak-Wagner
Walker

Id like to keep McClement around as a 13th forward, he will be cheap as an RFA (who is going to put a bid on him?). He will be good insurance when Berglund inevitably will go through some rookie slumps. .

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01-27-2008, 12:36 AM
  #22
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One of my biggest questions about next year is if Oshie is here, how much responsibility he will have. It's a little bit different of a situation than someone like Perron who is only 19 and only known for offense. Oshie is already 21, has been on the Sioux PK unit for a while now and is really really good at it. From all reports his effort on the PK tonight (and another goal and assist) was a big reason that the Sioux won. Sure it'd only be his rookie season next season, but how nice would it be to finally have a dangerous offensive weapon on the penalty kill?

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01-27-2008, 04:46 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
Next years lineup:

Kariya-Berglund-Boyes
(Kariya and Boyes are effective regardless of who they are with which makes this an ideal spot for Berglund to develope)

Perron-MacDonald-Oshie
(I am extremely interested in finding out if Oshie and Perron have good chemistry together, they could be a dynamic offensive pairing if they do(Perron being the Super set-up man and Oshie being the finisher); MacDonald adds some speed, skill and veteran know-how to the line)

Stempniak-Tkachuk-Backes
(while the Kariya/Boyes combo may be our most productive offensive unit and MacDonald/Perron may be our most talented, this line is actually our most well rounded and I see no reason to split them up)

Hinote/King-RJ-Mayers
(Possibly the best energy line in the league)


I like these lines alot with the exception being I would switch Tkachuk and Macdonald. I think a net crasher like Tkachuk could really click with the speed and playmaking abilities of a Perron and Oshie. And given the grit of Stempy and Backes as well as the sniper potential of Stemper, they would play off better on Macdonald's finesse. I would really like to see what Stempinak and Macdonald would look like. But anyway you look at it, I have faith that our O will come around.

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01-27-2008, 10:58 AM
  #24
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Opening Night Roster:

Kariya - Tkachuk - Boyes
Perron - McDonald - Backes
Stempniak - McClement - Oshie
King - Mayers - Hinote
Some FA similar to MJ to be the 13th guy.

Salvador -Brewer
McKee - EJ
Wagner - Backman
Woywitka

Legace
Toivonen

I just don't see Murray being drastically different. Maybe someone will surprise us like Wagner this year though.

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01-27-2008, 11:05 AM
  #25
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Minor quibble but I remember hearing Toronto offering a 2nd (no one offered a 1st, I believe)

I thought your 1st post in this thread was spot on ...specifically I appreciated your players to trade or waive portion w/explanation section.
Thanks for the kudos. You may be right about the 1st/2nd round pick thing. I should have looked for a link to reference before using that point. Regardless, I do think interest in Mayers around the league is high, and there will be more than a few sweet offers before the deadline. I don't see how Pleau or JD could turn down what I think will be offered for him.

I think proposals to move players are worthless without some justification or explanation of the logic behind the proposal. I get irritated when I see others omit this, then get pissy when you question their logic. Therefore, I try to make sure to spell out exactly what I'm thinking. Doing so helps identify exactly where points of view differ, and also helps reach concensus on other points.

I think this is why StLooFrenchy and I were able to have a great discussion and appreciate the other's point of view even though we disagree.

Unfortunately, not everyone is capable of communicating in a logically coherent way. Take my wife, for instance. But I digress...

What return would YOU expect for those players in the event that they were moved?

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