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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

When Juggernauts Collide ...

View Poll Results: Which team "underachieved" the most?
Colorado Avalanche 4 13.33%
Dallas Stars 1 3.33%
Detroit Red Wings 3 10.00%
Eh ... they all got about what they deserved 8 26.67%
Being a St Louis Blue would have sucked ... 14 46.67%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-24-2008, 07:40 AM
  #1
ck26
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When Juggernauts Collide ...

From 1995 to 2002, the West was won by Detroit four times, Colorado twice and Dallas twice. Detroit went on to win 3 of 4 Cups. Colorado was 2-for-2 in the finals. Dallas was 1-for-2.

In the '96 playoffs, Colorado beat Detroit.
In the '97 playoffs, Detroit beat Colorado.
In the '98 playoffs, Detroit beat Dallas.
In the '99 playoffs, Colorado beat Detroit and then lost to Dallas.
In the '00 playoffs, Colorado beat Detroit and then lost to Dallas again.
In the '02 playoffs, Detroit beat Colorado.

Which team "left the most on the table"? In the absence of the other two, which team would have made the biggest leap in trophies won?

To jog the memory ...
Dallas had Modano, Nieuwendyk, Belfour, Hatcher, Hull, Carbonneau, Lehtinen and Zubov.
Colorado had Sakic, Forsberg, Drury, Hejduk, Foote, Bourque and Roy.
Detroit had Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan, Lidstrom, Fetisov, Chelios, Vernon and Osgood.


Last edited by ck26: 01-24-2008 at 07:46 AM.
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Old
01-24-2008, 08:02 AM
  #2
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Kind of like the 80's NBA when teams that would have easily been dynasties in other eras battled for supremacy.

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01-24-2008, 12:32 PM
  #3
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Just too bad none of those 3 teams could meet in the SC Finals. That era really convinced me that a 1-16 seeding instead of conferences would be much more exciting.

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01-24-2008, 04:42 PM
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NOTENOUGHBREWER
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Detroit could've easily been a 4 in a row champ from 95, 96, 97, 98.

I think of the teams after the Iginla for Niewendyke trade Dallas should've had more than 1 cup to show for it.

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01-24-2008, 05:29 PM
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Augustus Pablo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER View Post
Detroit could've easily been a 4 in a row champ from 95, 96, 97, 98.

I think of the teams after the Iginla for Niewendyke trade Dallas should've had more than 1 cup to show for it.
A tight western conference was not Detroit's problem in 1995.

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01-24-2008, 05:39 PM
  #6
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in those early years Detroit had even a better defenseman than Lidstrom.

Paul Coffey was also on a few of those teams, im not sure what year he retired.

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01-24-2008, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammitch View Post
in those early years Detroit had even a better defenseman than Lidstrom.

Paul Coffey was also on a few of those teams, im not sure what year he retired.
Nick and Konstantinov were 1 and 1A.

The Wings didn't win a thing until trading Coffey away at the beginning of the '96-'97 season. He retired in the early 00s some time after bouncing around Hartford, Philly, Boston I believe, and another team.

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01-24-2008, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammitch View Post
in those early years Detroit had even a better defenseman than Lidstrom.

Paul Coffey was also on a few of those teams, im not sure what year he retired.
Coffey was on the 1995 team (and led it in scoring during the regular season) but was moved for Shanahan early in 1997.

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Originally Posted by norrisnick View Post
The Wings didn't win a thing until trading Coffey away at the beginning of the '96-'97 season. He retired in the early 00s some time after bouncing around Hartford, Philly, Boston I believe, and another team.
He played a little in Hartford but was traded that same season to Philadelphia. He signed with Chicago before the 1998 season but was traded really early to Carolina. He finished up his career in Boston.

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01-24-2008, 08:46 PM
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NOTENOUGHBREWER
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Originally Posted by Caged Wisdom View Post
A tight western conference was not Detroit's problem in 1995.
They werent ready to win yet, but a dynasty would've been nice to see.

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01-25-2008, 02:38 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER View Post
Detroit could've easily been a 4 in a row champ from 95, 96, 97, 98.

I think of the teams after the Iginla for Niewendyke trade Dallas should've had more than 1 cup to show for it.
It's debatable whether Dallas would have even won their cup without Niewendyke

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01-25-2008, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER View Post
I think of the teams after the Iginla for Niewendyke trade Dallas should've had more than 1 cup to show for it.
I was in the house the first game of the '98 playoffs when Marchment blew out Nieuwendyk's knee. We got to the conference finals without him, and Brett Hull wasn't on the team yet, but many of us still contend that we beat Detroit, go to the finals, trash Washington and win the '98 Cup if we have Joe in the lineup. If not for that one cheap-shot, Dallas goes to the finals three seasons in a row.
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Originally Posted by Cole435 View Post
It's debatable whether Dallas would have even won their cup without Niewendyke
No chance we beat Colorado in '99 or '00 without Joe Nieuwendyk. Iginla was an NHL regular at that point, but his point totals from '98 to '00 were a whopping 32, 51 and 63.

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01-25-2008, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cottonking View Post
I was in the house the first game of the '98 playoffs when Marchment blew out Nieuwendyk's knee. We got to the conference finals without him, and Brett Hull wasn't on the team yet, but many of us still contend that we beat Detroit, go to the finals, trash Washington and win the '98 Cup if we have Joe in the lineup. If not for that one cheap-shot, Dallas goes to the finals three seasons in a row.
I agree Joe was a big part of your team, but remember we did beat you with Osgood in net (you guys had prime Belfour).

Give us Hasek or even Mike Vernon and I say we beat the Stars + Big Joe, though I admit it could easily go the other way.

Quote:
No chance we beat Colorado in '99 or '00 without Joe Nieuwendyk. Iginla was an NHL regular at that point, but his point totals from '98 to '00 were a whopping 32, 51 and 63.
Fully agree. On a related note, thinking of Nieuwendyk in the playoffs I always remember his Conn Smythe year, which (once again) raised the goalie-vs-player-MVP debate. I always contend that if Vernon won the Smythe in '97 (over Fedorov), then Belfour should have definitely won in '99 (over Nieuwendyk). Personally I would have given it to the centre both times, but the NHL's voters could be a little more consistent from year to year (or less biased towards Candians, back in the 90s).

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01-25-2008, 08:43 PM
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NOTENOUGHBREWER
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole435 View Post
It's debatable whether Dallas would have even won their cup without Niewendyke
Uh yeah thats why I said after that trade they should've won more than 1 cup. Niewendyke was really the "missing piece" so to speak on that team.

I never like looking at injuries as a factor because every team has to get lucky with health to win the cup.

I think due to teambuilding style of the big 3 in the west Detroit was the team most able to overcome injury though. They usually fielded the deepest teams and although they had great players, they relied less on a few superstars than the Avs or Stars did.

If the big guns werent firing for the Avs they had a relatively mediocre defense and Patrick Roy. The Stars still had a very good 4 deep defense corps but again their offense if one of their centers got hurt was almost non-existants.

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01-26-2008, 03:54 AM
  #14
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The Avs underachieved seemingly on a yearly basis. They'd just collapse at the most inoppurtune time.

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01-26-2008, 04:35 AM
  #15
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Dallas underachieved by only getting one cup when they could have had three.

Colorado could have been a dynasty, instead they settled for two.

Detroit won three with the core, more or less, and though they could have been on par with the Oilers and Habs dynasty it's hard to say they underachieved much (after all, Edmonton overcame Calgary multiple times, Montreal over Boston but Detroit had an achilles heel).

Philadelphia, then Ottawa are the true underachievers.

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01-26-2008, 07:56 PM
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The bottom line is that these 3 teams were true juggernaughts, and each would have been a great dynasty in the absence of the others (and Detroit did establish some form of dynasty).

To answer the original question I would say Colorado underachieved the most, in erms of talent, they should have won more cups...a good defence + prime Patty Roy in net and multiple threats up front should definitely have won more cups, imo.

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01-28-2008, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER View Post
If the big guns werent firing for the Avs they had a relatively mediocre defense and Patrick Roy. The Stars still had a very good 4 deep defense corps but again their offense if one of their centers got hurt was almost non-existants.
:et's not forget Matvichuk deliberately injuring Forsberg and Hedjuk.
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Dallas underachieved by only getting one cup when they could have had three.

Colorado could have been a dynasty, instead they settled for two.
Plenty of fanbases and teams would give their collective left nut for either of those.

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01-29-2008, 01:11 AM
  #18
SoundwaveIsCharisma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wings4Life View Post
The bottom line is that these 3 teams were true juggernaughts, and each would have been a great dynasty in the absence of the others (and Detroit did establish some form of dynasty).

To answer the original question I would say Colorado underachieved the most, in erms of talent, they should have won more cups...a good defence + prime Patty Roy in net and multiple threats up front should definitely have won more cups, imo.
Colorado could have had two more Stanley Cups. They lost twice to Dallas in really close series where the team just seemed to collapse near the end, and the collapse against Detroit in 2002. I still think things would've been different of Claude Lemieux had not turtled, the Avs were ridding a pretty big high and that game just knocked them off their high horse.

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