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01-29-2008, 08:46 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesDarb View Post
They want roster filler, how about McClement. He's worthless.
As I've said many times, I don't get all the hate for Jay McClement.

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01-29-2008, 04:21 PM
  #27
BluesDarb
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
As I've said many times, I don't get all the hate for Jay McClement.
His development seems to have stalled completely.

I think we've got pieces on the farm, in Europe, and/or in the NCAA that could easily fill his spot.

Not that I think he'll never be anything in the league, I just think that he's totally expendable from the Blues' perspective.

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01-29-2008, 04:50 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesDarb View Post
His development seems to have stalled completely.

I think we've got pieces on the farm, in Europe, and/or in the NCAA that could easily fill his spot.

Not that I think he'll never be anything in the league, I just think that he's totally expendable from the Blues' perspective.
Except that it was the last 30-40 games last year that indicated he'd develop more offensively and it's only the last 30-40 games this year that have shown a "stall" in that area. Let's be fair about this. McClement is a great third-line center who is a fantastic penalty killer and can fill in on the powerplay if needed. He's a late bloomer anyway. He'll only mature in that role over the next few years. The Blues will love to have him when they're in the playoffs.

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Old
01-29-2008, 05:29 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
Except that it was the last 30-40 games last year that indicated he'd develop more offensively and it's only the last 30-40 games this year that have shown a "stall" in that area. Let's be fair about this. McClement is a great third-line center who is a fantastic penalty killer and can fill in on the powerplay if needed. He's a late bloomer anyway. He'll only mature in that role over the next few years. The Blues will love to have him when they're in the playoffs.
I agree with all of that. But I also think we've got more than enough pieces in the system that can play a defense first forward style. If Jay were dominating in any way I'd be more willing to solidify his spot on the team, but really he's a "jack of all trades, ace of none".

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Old
01-29-2008, 09:29 PM
  #30
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i know i maybe in the minority right but i think oshie is going to dissapoint many fans expecting him to be the next crosby or gretksky. if you look at his play in college his play has actually regressed since his freshman season. if the blues actually had a official prospect rating list he would actually be down on there list behind johnson, eller, berglund, perron and others possibly behind palushah and hjarmarsson. another thing you have to consider about oshie is what type of player he is. i saw him play a little in college and he plays with a lot energy but has limited offensive skill he will probably get about 25 yo 39 goals a year. this isnt bad but others on the blues list have higher upside. it maybe an unpopular opinion to trade a talent like his to make the playoffs this year but the first step in winning the cup is making the playoffs. i just dont want the blues to end up like the kings or capitals who collect draft picks and young players and always seem to be at bottom of the standings GO BLUES

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01-29-2008, 09:58 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fan in oregon View Post
i know i maybe in the minority right but i think oshie is going to dissapoint many fans expecting him to be the next crosby or gretksky. if you look at his play in college his play has actually regressed since his freshman season. if the blues actually had a official prospect rating list he would actually be down on there list behind johnson, eller, berglund, perron and others possibly behind palushah and hjarmarsson. another thing you have to consider about oshie is what type of player he is. i saw him play a little in college and he plays with a lot energy but has limited offensive skill he will probably get about 25 yo 39 goals a year. this isnt bad but others on the blues list have higher upside. it maybe an unpopular opinion to trade a talent like his to make the playoffs this year but the first step in winning the cup is making the playoffs. i just dont want the blues to end up like the kings or capitals who collect draft picks and young players and always seem to be at bottom of the standings GO BLUES
*exasperated sigh*... YOU are in the minority, on many levels. I seriously doubt anyone on this board, or another, thinks that Oshie is going to be the next Crosby or Gretzky. Let's discuss your idea of his weakness: "limited offensive skill". A player with "limited offensive skill" does not score "25 yo 39 goals a year". C'mon dude, do you even follow the NHL, never mind checking player stats? I have been taking it easy on you, but this post has tested my limits, and I have children! Oshie will be a star in this league, mark my words. A feirce competitor than has "limited offensive skill", but can still kick in "25 yo 39 goals a year" sounds like a young Doug Gilmour or Jeremy Roenik to me. But I guess they sucked, too. *exasperated sigh*...

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Old
01-29-2008, 10:00 PM
  #32
BluesDarb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fan in oregon View Post
i know i maybe in the minority right but i think oshie is going to dissapoint many fans expecting him to be the next crosby or gretksky. if you look at his play in college his play has actually regressed since his freshman season. if the blues actually had a official prospect rating list he would actually be down on there list behind johnson, eller, berglund, perron and others possibly behind palushah and hjarmarsson. another thing you have to consider about oshie is what type of player he is. i saw him play a little in college and he plays with a lot energy but has limited offensive skill he will probably get about 25 yo 39 goals a year. this isnt bad but others on the blues list have higher upside. it maybe an unpopular opinion to trade a talent like his to make the playoffs this year but the first step in winning the cup is making the playoffs. i just dont want the blues to end up like the kings or capitals who collect draft picks and young players and always seem to be at bottom of the standings GO BLUES
You're the only one saying that, including those who do this(scouting) for a living.

The only thing I agree with there is that Oshie isn't Gretzky. Uhm, duh.....no one is.

Even Crosby doesn't impress me in the way Gretzky did.

The biggest thing I want to dispute in your post is that "the first step in winning the Cup is making the playoffs". Beside the obvious logical disjunct that actually the first step would be forming a team, then staffing it, then the regular season...etc.etc.

Making the playoffs and losing early does not make a team closer to the Cup than a team that is in the process of a 'slow boil' if you will to Contender status.

I'd rather be in the Blues shoes right now than, say, the Colorado Avalanche....and they're gonna make the post-season. They've got some real issues coming up in the near future, whereas the Blues have perhaps too much of a good thing coming their way.

Yup, I'm happy with the team's progression.

You're in the very severe minority here....we're talking 1 in 10 or so, IMO.

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Old
01-29-2008, 10:02 PM
  #33
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What would you guys want for Lars Eller?David Perron?

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Old
01-29-2008, 10:03 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovechkin187 View Post
What would you guys want for Lars Eller?David Perron?
Both are in their first year after being drafted. Neither will be moved.

Come talk to us in '10-'11 and maybe then a deal can be done.

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01-29-2008, 10:05 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovechkin187 View Post
What would you guys want for Lars Eller?David Perron?
It would take an over-payment on your part. This management group just isn't going to move one of our kids without getting something in return they deem more valuable.

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Old
01-29-2008, 10:06 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovechkin187 View Post
What would you guys want for Lars Eller?David Perron?
Nothing. We will keep them.

Thanks though.

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Old
01-29-2008, 10:38 PM
  #37
Randall Ritchey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovechkin187 View Post
What would you guys want for Lars Eller?David Perron?
J. Pogge, N. Antropov, T. Kaberle, M. Sundin

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Old
01-29-2008, 11:02 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fan in oregon View Post
i know i maybe in the minority right but i think oshie is going to dissapoint many fans expecting him to be the next crosby or gretksky. if you look at his play in college his play has actually regressed since his freshman season. if the blues actually had a official prospect rating list he would actually be down on there list behind johnson, eller, berglund, perron and others possibly behind palushah and hjarmarsson. another thing you have to consider about oshie is what type of player he is. i saw him play a little in college and he plays with a lot energy but has limited offensive skill he will probably get about 25 yo 39 goals a year. this isnt bad but others on the blues list have higher upside. it maybe an unpopular opinion to trade a talent like his to make the playoffs this year but the first step in winning the cup is making the playoffs. i just dont want the blues to end up like the kings or capitals who collect draft picks and young players and always seem to be at bottom of the standings GO BLUES
Under the salary cap, the best way to assure being able to keep enough talent together is to raise your own by drafting them, and compiling your most skilled players within a few years of age, so they can reach their peaks at or near the same time. It will cost too much to add morethan one or twopieces of the puzzle through overbidding on UFAs or depleting future player assets by signing RFAs. Keeping the main portion of a team's skilled players cheap is the best way to accumulate more skilled talent (needed to be a great team).

First round draft choices in a talent-deep draft, are like gold. If only one out of two recent Blues' high draft choice forwards becomes as good as Tanguay, and even HE isn't as good as Tanguay is now until 3-4 years from now, The Blues will still be better off to have that 1st rounder. That is because he can play with The Blues for 10-15 years, orbe traded off after several good years, for a good player asset return, after maturing at the same time as several other Blues' quality young players, giving The Blues a dominant team for several years. Tanguay might be gone before The Blues are good enough to go very far in the playoffs. And he's already old enough that if he stays for 3 years while they don't win, they might not get all that much for him, when he leaves. The situation is even worse in trading for Sundin.

If they were one forward away from a dominant team, I might think differently.

Players like Oshie, Berglund, Eller and a forward or defenceman they take in the first round of this year's draft should be kept unless extremely overpaid for (with youthful/future player assets), so that a big portion of the player roster can be occupied by relatively low-cost/highly skilled players, so they can have a strong lineup that can stay together for several years. Buffalo and other teams have gotten far in The Stanley Cup playoffs without having any forward superstars. 3 scoring lines full of Oshies, Berglunds, Ellers and Boyeses would do fine.


Last edited by Robb_K: 01-29-2008 at 11:10 PM.
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Old
01-30-2008, 05:41 PM
  #39
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Tucker for Mayers.

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Old
01-30-2008, 05:55 PM
  #40
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Tucker for Mayers.
Do not want.

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Old
01-30-2008, 07:25 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesDarb View Post
I agree with all of that. But I also think we've got more than enough pieces in the system that can play a defense first forward style. If Jay were dominating in any way I'd be more willing to solidify his spot on the team, but really he's a "jack of all trades, ace of none".
It's his 3rd year in the NHL. Name me some players who were at the top of their game in their 3rd NHL season. Heck, name some players in the system who at this moment in time could step in and take McClement's spot and never miss a beat, never struggle, never need time to adjust.

There are none in the system ready to do that. In 2 years? Maybe ... but on January 30, 2008?

McClement will eventually shift into a 3rd/4th line role ... and that's perfect for him and the team. As much as we'd love to have every prospect in the lineup in 2-3 years, someone with experience needs to be on this roster as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fan in oregon View Post
if the blues actually had a official prospect rating list he would actually be down on there list behind johnson, eller, berglund, perron and others possibly behind palushah and hjarmarsson.


Really? You really think the Blues think Oshie is their 5th-7th best prospect [or worse]?

Johnson is for all practical purposes not a prospect - yes, he still meets HF's criteria right now, but in reality he's an NHL'er. Oshie behind Berglund? Probably, not much of an argument there.
-- Behind Eller? No.
-- Behind Perron? Doubtful - and at this point I consider Perron an NHL player like Johnson.
-- Behind Palushaj and Hjalmarsson? Not a chance. Not even an incredibly small chance.

Oshie's having a "really bad year," he's only 12-14-26 in 26 games this year. Oh, the horror! That's still only tied for 6th in the WCHA, and that's considering teams have had 2 years to adjust their game plans to his style of play and that this year's UND team isn't nearly as good as last year's team since Toews and Porter are gone and the Sioux effectively didn't replace them. Going 12-14-26 this year is actually pretty darn good, since he and his line are the focus of every opponent because [see if this sounds familiar, anyone] they're not getting a lot of scoring after the 1st line.

However ... your "has limited upside, only 25-39 goals" takes the cake. 25-39 goals isn't limited upside - that's called a top-6 forward in the NHL, and there's 30 teams who'd kill to have a guy who can score 25-39 goals a season.

Please understand this: T.J. Oshie is not getting traded, especially not for a playoff rental. He's going to be part of this organization for at least the next 6-7 years, period.

Quote:
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Tucker for Mayers.
As Axel said, not a chance. We don't need to have a $3 million player taking the place of a guy making $1.4 million and contributing less on the ice.

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01-30-2008, 08:11 PM
  #42
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Tucker for Mayers.
I wouldn't trade RJ for Darcy the Clown, and I hate RJ.

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01-30-2008, 10:11 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by StLooFrenchy View Post
I wouldn't trade RJ for Darcy the Clown, and I hate RJ.
Why do you hate Ryan Johnson?

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Old
01-31-2008, 05:23 AM
  #44
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Why do you hate Ryan Johnson?
OK, maybe hate is too strong of a word. I think RJ is a marginal NHL'er on his best days. I know he is supposed to be great on the PK, but if you can't generate a SH threat after you block a shot, you are just teeing it up for the opposition to try again. Good teams counterattack while PK'ing. We don't. That's all.

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01-31-2008, 07:19 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Robb_K View Post
Under the salary cap, the best way to assure being able to keep enough talent together is to raise your own by drafting them, and compiling your most skilled players within a few years of age, so they can reach their peaks at or near the same time. It will cost too much to add morethan one or twopieces of the puzzle through overbidding on UFAs or depleting future player assets by signing RFAs. Keeping the main portion of a team's skilled players cheap is the best way to accumulate more skilled talent (needed to be a great team).

First round draft choices in a talent-deep draft, are like gold. If only one out of two recent Blues' high draft choice forwards becomes as good as Tanguay, and even HE isn't as good as Tanguay is now until 3-4 years from now, The Blues will still be better off to have that 1st rounder. That is because he can play with The Blues for 10-15 years, orbe traded off after several good years, for a good player asset return, after maturing at the same time as several other Blues' quality young players, giving The Blues a dominant team for several years. Tanguay might be gone before The Blues are good enough to go very far in the playoffs. And he's already old enough that if he stays for 3 years while they don't win, they might not get all that much for him, when he leaves. The situation is even worse in trading for Sundin.

If they were one forward away from a dominant team, I might think differently.

Players like Oshie, Berglund, Eller and a forward or defenceman they take in the first round of this year's draft should be kept unless extremely overpaid for (with youthful/future player assets), so that a big portion of the player roster can be occupied by relatively low-cost/highly skilled players, so they can have a strong lineup that can stay together for several years. Buffalo and other teams have gotten far in The Stanley Cup playoffs without having any forward superstars. 3 scoring lines full of Oshies, Berglunds, Ellers and Boyeses would do fine.
Just imagine a line with 3 Oshies on it.

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Old
01-31-2008, 07:32 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Ovechkin187 View Post
What would you guys want for Lars Eller?David Perron?
Kaberle, Steen, Tlusty and your next 3 First round picks

For either of them.

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Old
02-01-2008, 02:47 AM
  #47
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McClement is our best player. No sarcasm

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Old
02-01-2008, 08:16 AM
  #48
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McClement is our best player. No sarcasm
That wasn't sarcasm...it was a bold faced lie, however.

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