HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Its official, Fleury is going to WBS!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-13-2004, 11:47 PM
  #26
DJ Spinoza
Registered User
 
DJ Spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 13,279
vCash: 500
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04105/300710.stm

Caron starts Thursday.

DJ Spinoza is offline  
Old
04-14-2004, 01:17 AM
  #27
Fleuryfan29
Registered User
 
Fleuryfan29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Barrie, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,985
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrKnowNothing
This sucks, I really want Fleury to Start. Put it this way if you had $5 million in the bank, would you not want it to grow?....Of coruse you would.
As do the PENS, they want Fleury to prove them right, by getting wins and winning the Calder cup. It only helps there investment and helps Fleury in the future.

I know that Chiodo has helped the WBS Pens to get to the Playoffs this year almost single handedly but really, who would you pick? honestly? a guy that is scouted to be a carrer back-up (if that) or a guy that is scouted to be a future backbone of a franchise?

Fleuryfan29 is offline  
Old
04-14-2004, 02:09 AM
  #28
Jacob
Registered User
 
Jacob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,429
vCash: 500
The guy that's going to give the team the best chance at winning, period.

Winning comes first, development comes second.

Jacob is offline  
Old
04-14-2004, 02:23 AM
  #29
tom_servo
Registered User
 
tom_servo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,711
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobv2
The guy that's going to give the team the best chance at winning, period.

Winning comes first, development comes second.
Definitely true if your team is loaded with potential NHL players, like the Baby Pens. Also true once you're in the playoffs. So, yes, I'd agree here.

Chiodo in Wheeling? The guy doesn't deserve that. Fleury, being the late guy in (and never having played an AHL game, mind you), is the insurance. He'll have all next season to vie for the starter's job.

tom_servo is offline  
Old
04-14-2004, 07:44 AM
  #30
Riggs
Kaptain
 
Riggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 3,201
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by clefty
Fleury winning one game is not more important than the success of the team. There are 20+ other guys down there, a substantial chunk of them being prospects who management want to get as much playoff experience as possible.
That chunk of prospects you are talking about does not have the burden of being a #1 overall pick. Those prospects also did not start the season in the NHL, nor did they get loaned to a world junior team. In that tournament they were not expected to dominate, nor did they cost their team a very costly goal in the gold medal game. None of those prospects were sent back to their junior team. After a very successful stint in the QMJHL, those prospects did not get knocked out of the playoffs as a #2 team by a #7 team in five games, nor did any of those prospects get benched for the last game when the series was on the line. None of those prospects are joining their fourth team of the season. They are in the playoffs, everything from here on in is a bonus.

None of those prospects are as important to the future of the Pens as Fleury, so why not use this "bonus" time to get Fleury's confidence back to were it was. That is what will be good for the Pens in the long run.


Last edited by Riggs: 04-14-2004 at 07:51 AM.
Riggs is offline  
Old
04-14-2004, 07:48 AM
  #31
Fleuryfan29
Registered User
 
Fleuryfan29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Barrie, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,985
vCash: 500
I agree, I like the way you put it better!

Fleuryfan29 is offline  
Old
04-14-2004, 09:20 AM
  #32
Special Ed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: C'ville PA
Posts: 354
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Special Ed
Quote:
Originally Posted by clefty
Caron is 7-3-4 in Wilkes-Barre this season, better than any other goalie. Andy Chiodo has carried the load for the majority of the season.

They've earned the right to backstop their team through the playoffs. Fleury may start a game or two, but that should be it. Its been a hell of a long season for him also (he's about to play for his fourth team this season), and he just might not be up to it.

I think the no.1 reason he's there is to gain some professional playoff experience and get accustomed to the team he'll probably be playing with next season. He's not there to be relied upon to win the Calder for the Baby Pens.
Well obviously Caron would have a better record than Fleury, Fleury didn't play in AHL this year.

I think the biggest challenge that Fleury had for best goalie would be Aubin (in terms of this season).

Fleury didn't have the luxury of playing for the team when it was playing well.

Fleury is the most talented goalie in WBS now. He needs to rest for a couple days and I agree that he shouldn't start game 1 but I think he gives us the best chance to win.

Special Ed is offline  
Old
04-14-2004, 12:49 PM
  #33
Jacob
Registered User
 
Jacob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riggs
None of those prospects are as important to the future of the Pens as Fleury, so why not use this "bonus" time to get Fleury's confidence back to were it was.
Right. Just like what was supposed to happen in the WJCs, and in the Q?

Folks, this isn't brain surgery. You play to win all the time, and in the playoffs, that is magnified by 1000.

If you care about Fleury's development only, then you should at least agree that Fleury should never be handed anything in his career, specifically the starting job of a Calder Cup run.

Quote:
I agree, I like the way you put it better!
You appear to be a Fleury fan first and a Penguins fan second, therefore, there's nothing I can say that's going to change your opinion.

Quote:
Fleury is the most talented goalie in WBS now.
No doubt, but he's also the youngest of the three, the least experienced of the three, and the one that probably has the lowest confidence level of them all. Talent alone doesn't make a goaltender. Fleury could probably do well for the baby Pens, but Caron will probably do a lot better.


Last edited by Jacob: 04-14-2004 at 12:53 PM.
Jacob is offline  
Old
04-14-2004, 02:14 PM
  #34
Fleuryfan29
Registered User
 
Fleuryfan29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Barrie, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,985
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobv2
You appear to be a Fleury fan first and a Penguins fan second, therefore, there's nothing I can say that's going to change your opinion.
Acually Iam a PENS fan 1st, Lemieux fan 2nd and Fleury fan 3rd.

Fleuryfan29 is offline  
Old
04-14-2004, 02:58 PM
  #35
DJ Spinoza
Registered User
 
DJ Spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 13,279
vCash: 500
Tom, they'll just scratch one of the three goalies almost assuredly. I haven't heard anything about any of them going to Wheeling.

Fleury will play, I am almost sure of it. Therrien was the driving force in getting him to WBS, which to me means that it's a lock he'll play. If Caron gets them to a lead in the series early on I expect him to come in with a lead. If he doesn't, I expect to see him as Caron's replacement.

DJ Spinoza is offline  
Old
04-14-2004, 03:04 PM
  #36
Riggs
Kaptain
 
Riggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 3,201
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobv2
Folks, this isn't brain surgery. You play to win all the time, and in the playoffs, that is magnified by 1000.
At no point have I wanted them to lose, nor have I wanted MAF to be the starting goalie the whole time. If you go back and look at my original statement, you will see that all I want is for Fleury to start a few games and hopefully get a few wins, then sit him on the bench and let him watch.

I really don't want MAF's season to end the way it did in Cape Breton. As a goaltender, you are only as good as your last game and he lost his last game in the "Q". I feel the Pens should do everything in their power to get him to the off season on a good note.

Riggs is offline  
Old
04-14-2004, 03:09 PM
  #37
Jacob
Registered User
 
Jacob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,429
vCash: 500
Every goalie's season ends on a bad note, unless you win the cup. I just don't think it's worth putting him in when there's a good chance he does not win, and that game could decide a whole series.

If Caron plays well, you stick with him. If he faulters (severely), THEN I'd go with Fleury/Chiodo.

But you don't risk a Calder Cup run for the sake of one goaltender's confidence.

You say you want him to be put in to win, for the sake of his confidence. What if he loses? You now have probably totally killed his confidence and have just nixed a good chance at winning the series. Like I said before, these were the same reasons he was sent to to the WJCs and the Q, and both backfired for various reasons.


Last edited by Jacob: 04-14-2004 at 03:13 PM.
Jacob is offline  
Old
04-14-2004, 08:09 PM
  #38
clefty
What?
 
clefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Fujairah
Posts: 15,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tophu
Well obviously Caron would have a better record than Fleury, Fleury didn't play in AHL this year.
Thats why I wasn't talking about Fleury. What I meant was that Caron's record looked better than any other WBS goalie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tophu
Fleury didn't have the luxury of playing for the team when it was playing well
Yeah, and Caron and Aubin sure did when the team lost 18 games in a row. Its all relative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tophu
Fleury is the most talented goalie in WBS now. He needs to rest for a couple days and I agree that he shouldn't start game 1 but I think he gives us the best chance to win.
Obviously. He's one of the most talented goalies in the world. But when it comes down to it, I'd rather have the guy who has 4 years of professional hockey and previous professional playoff experience under his belt starting for me in the playoffs.

Quote:
That chunk of prospects you are talking about does not have the burden of being a #1 overall pick. Those prospects also did not start the season in the NHL, nor did they get loaned to a world junior team. In that tournament they were not expected to dominate, nor did they cost their team a very costly goal in the gold medal game. None of those prospects were sent back to their junior team. After a very successful stint in the QMJHL, those prospects did not get knocked out of the playoffs as a #2 team by a #7 team in five games, nor did any of those prospects get benched for the last game when the series was on the line. None of those prospects are joining their fourth team of the season. They are in the playoffs, everything from here on in is a bonus.
That seems reason enough NOT to start him. I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

What if he does start and the team is bundled out by Bridgeport in 4 games? Its not worth putting even more pressure on this kid when we don't have to for the sake of building up a sliver of confidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riggs
None of those prospects are as important to the future of the Pens as Fleury
Individually they aren't, collectively they most certainly are. Craig Patrick made a commitment to helping WBS deep into the playoffs before he even knew Fleury would be available. He wants Murley, Ouellet, Endicott, Armstrong, Koltsov, Orpik, Koltsov, Beech, Whitney, Nemec to get playoff experience just as much he wants Fleury to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riggs
so why not use this "bonus" time to get Fleury's confidence back to were it was
Like we did by sending him to play at the WJC's? Or like we did by sending him back to Cape Breton for a Memorial Cup run? That worked well, didn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riggs
I really don't want MAF's season to end the way it did in Cape Breton
Why? He's going to finish his season losing more often than he'll finish his season winning during his career. 95% of all goalies do.

clefty is offline  
Old
04-14-2004, 10:17 PM
  #39
JDB3939
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Natrona Heights, PA
Posts: 3,452
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JDB3939
Chiodo already got this team this far and now we are going to screw him even worse by not even letting him dress as the back up?

JDB3939 is offline  
Old
04-14-2004, 10:48 PM
  #40
pitthockey81
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Country: Germany
Posts: 288
vCash: 500
It has nothing to do with screwing anyone over...as a pro athlete you know your role and you do your job. Fleury is our franchise player and Caron is our "veteran" who is expected to lead the team to the championship. The only way Fleury will play is if Caron chokes. Chiodo has to be grateful for the chance the Pens gave him this year. Just last year he was released by NY and put back into the draft, where he was picked up in the 7th round. He made the most of his short stint in the NHL this season, and has a bright future ahead of him. But prohockey is a business, you play ur best players, so Caron and Fleury will be the go to guys.

pitthockey81 is offline  
Old
04-15-2004, 12:22 AM
  #41
Jacob
Registered User
 
Jacob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDB3939
Chiodo already got this team this far and now we are going to screw him even worse by not even letting him dress as the back up?
Them's the breaks. Just because he was down there for the majority of the season does NOT mean he should be their starter. Caron and Fleury were busy doing their business at a much higher level.

All of them will get their shots, but this may be Caron's last. Look, he may not be in our future plans, but he's still signed and if he gains experience and takes the team deep into the playoffs, that raises his value, which helps out the Penguins. He's backed up Parent and Aubin in Calder Cup runs, it's his turn to show what he can do.

Next season it will be Fleury/Chiodo's turn.

Jacob is offline  
Old
04-15-2004, 12:36 AM
  #42
AEKaki
Registered User
 
AEKaki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Greektown, MONTREAL
Country: Greece
Posts: 4,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobv2
Next season it will be Fleury/Chiodo's turn.
The only way we will see Fleury in the A is if there's no season.

AEKaki is offline  
Old
04-15-2004, 12:40 AM
  #43
Jacob
Registered User
 
Jacob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,429
vCash: 500
Incorrect.

Since the Penguins won't be in the playoffs, Fleury will probably be sent down to play in the AHL down the stretch and into the Calder Cup playoffs, a la Caron this season.

And if he faulters in the NHL, or if he simply doesn't get playing time, I'm sure management would have no problem shuttling him back and forth just to get him the ice time.

Jacob is offline  
Old
04-15-2004, 03:08 AM
  #44
tom_servo
Registered User
 
tom_servo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,711
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. kØUkLØs
The only way we will see Fleury in the A is if there's no season.
Please don't tell me you want Fleury in the NHL as a full-timer. Do we really want to blow this?

tom_servo is offline  
Old
04-15-2004, 07:00 AM
  #45
Riggs
Kaptain
 
Riggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 3,201
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by clefty
Like we did by sending him to play at the WJC's? Or like we did by sending him back to Cape Breton for a Memorial Cup run? That worked well, didn't it?
Team Canada made it to the gold medal game of the WJC. They should have won that game, it was a total team breakdown. They thought they had it wrapped up and they let up. It was an unfortunate turn of events that led to Marc-Andre misplaying the puck, but its not like the game was 1-0, it was 4-3. That goal was put on Fleury as if he cost Canada the gold.

He is then sent back to Cape Breton after a short stop off in Pittsburgh. He goes 8-1-1 in his games leading up to the playoffs. Cape Breton had a two week layoff, then had to play a team coming off a playoff series win. I would imagine that most teams would have trouble.

He has had a rough year, and maybe it's best to just let him rest and think about next year, but the Pens drafted him #1 overall, you have get the kid in there at some point and see what he does. If he loses, then he knows his team had faith in him to play in a big game, if he wins, all the better. We all know what he is capable of if he gets hot, like his first month or so in the NHL. The WB Pens could ride him all the way to a championship. I do not believe the same could be said for Caron.

Riggs is offline  
Old
04-15-2004, 06:23 PM
  #46
clefty
What?
 
clefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Fujairah
Posts: 15,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riggs
Team Canada made it to the gold medal game of the WJC. They should have won that game, it was a total team breakdown. They thought they had it wrapped up and they let up. It was an unfortunate turn of events that led to Marc-Andre misplaying the puck, but its not like the game was 1-0, it was 4-3. That goal was put on Fleury as if he cost Canada the gold.

He is then sent back to Cape Breton after a short stop off in Pittsburgh. He goes 8-1-1 in his games leading up to the playoffs.
His play wasn't quite the way it should be during the entire WJC's. He was loaned to play in the tournament to get some confidence and be a part of a winning team. Whether it was his fault or not is not the issue. His confidence took a heavy hit after that game, the complete opposite to what we were looking for.

He was sent back to juniors to be a part of winning team and to lead his team on a Memorial Cup run. I know his record, I listened to 5 or 6 of those games myself. But again, his performance is not the issue. Twice this season, we've basically told him: "go and play with that team and win for them". Twice, its failed.

Now, I'm not saying that we should shield him from big games for the rest of his career. But the guy has had such a heavy amount of pressure and expectation put on him ALL season, no matter where he's played. Now he's in Wilkes-Barre, he should be there to experience what its like; maybe one or two appearances. Not to be completely thrown into the deep end again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riggs
Cape Breton had a two week layoff, then had to play a team coming off a playoff series win. I would imagine that most teams would have trouble.
Aha!

If you understand why he would have trouble playing a team of 16-19 year olds after a two week bye, how can you say he'd be able to beat a professional team as good as Bridgeport in a league he's never set foot in after not playing a game in over a week?

See what I'm saying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riggs
He has had a rough year, and maybe it's best to just let him rest and think about next year, but the Pens drafted him #1 overall, you have get the kid in there at some point and see what he does. If he loses, then he knows his team had faith in him to play in a big game, if he wins, all the better
You're placing the individual above the team. Craig Patrick and Michel Therrien have to worry about the Baby Pens going far into the playoffs, not whether MA Fleury is getting enough time on the playing field (err...ice). Seriously, why does he have to start now? Whats the rush?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riggs
The WB Pens could ride him all the way to a championship. I do not believe the same could be said for Caron.
Why?


Last edited by clefty: 04-15-2004 at 06:28 PM.
clefty is offline  
Old
04-16-2004, 07:06 AM
  #47
Riggs
Kaptain
 
Riggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 3,201
vCash: 500
Well, I feel you can argue both sides.

Fleury should have done better against lesser competition, but he did not.

I feel a franchise players development is more important than how far your minor league team goes in the playoffs.

I agree that there is no rush to get him in, but if he gets in there and gets a win it would be very good at this point for him, after the two times he didn't accomplish what the organization wanted him to accomplish.

MAF is just one guy, he needs a good defense and solid team play in front of him. I feel he would get that in WB, a thrown together world junior team might have had a lot of good individuals, but it might not have played all that well together, (e.g. the NY Rangers) A group of rusty 17,18, and 19 year olds is not the ideal situation for a goalie. They may have been overconfident being a #2 playing a #7. I don't know, its just what could have attributed to his lack-luster play. I feel the WB Pens would play very well in front of him and MAF would be eager to show management that he can get the job done.

I don't feel Caron is a good goalie, so I don't think he is capable of putting a team on his back and carrying a team to a championship.

I feel Chiodo should be playing, with Fleury getting a few(2) starts.

Riggs is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:47 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.