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Officiating in the NHL.

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Old
04-14-2004, 02:09 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
HOW am I embarrassing myself? I have a point. I am not crying about the loss. It's the system that is flawed.
And it's been flawed for how many years now? All the sudden the system has to be fixed because Montreal didn't get a call in their favor. If it was the other way around I bet you wouldn't have even made a post on the subject.

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04-14-2004, 03:54 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora
that's not good game management
Joking aside, if they felt Kovalev was faking it, it was good game management. If I'm reffing, why would I blow the whistle if I think a player is faking it?

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04-14-2004, 04:03 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Higgy4
It should not have been called. But just for sake of an argument, lets say maybe the ref did miss the call. Kovalev needs to not ASSUME that a call is going to be made. He needs to either dump the puck to another part of the ice, or get the hell out of Sourays way. This was all Kovalev.
I didn't get to watch a lot of the game (I was crying at how badly the Canucks were playing) but the refs have a bad case of inconsistency some games.

I don't know what slashes were called, not called, but at the very least, if the ref felt he was embellishing, stop the play and give Kovalev a unsportsmanlike.

Personally, I would just give Kovalev the unsportsmanlike and the Boston player a slashing penalty, play four on four and try to keep the teams even.

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04-14-2004, 04:25 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Dirty Chinaman
I didn't get to watch a lot of the game (I was crying at how badly the Canucks were playing) but the refs have a bad case of inconsistency some games.

I don't know what slashes were called, not called, but at the very least, if the ref felt he was embellishing, stop the play and give Kovalev a unsportsmanlike.

Personally, I would just give Kovalev the unsportsmanlike and the Boston player a slashing penalty, play four on four and try to keep the teams even.

The fact is the officiating was a joke ALL NIGHT LONG, so I can't really be surprised, and with what Ribeiro did, what happened didn't surprise me.

Guys were getting tackled left and right to prevent goal scoring opportunities, Koivu took a pretty good whallop to the face right in front of the ref drew blood, no call.

I think the worst, not even the slash which should be called, was the flying elbow to the head of Markov by Green. He got two minutes, but fact is, he was headhunting and was a deliberate elbow to the head. Regular season or possibly if Ribeiro didn't pull his stunt, thats five and a game. Even Bostons tie up goal late was due to Ward being pulled down as he tried to get to the point man.

Fact is its over, nothing fans can do. Montreal can take solace if the lose Thursday that they did much more than anyone expected, and honestly, have dominated Boston aside from game one. Few bad calls and breaks, the series is 3-1 Montreal, but that is the nature of playoffs.

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Old
04-14-2004, 04:30 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WuRtZLeSs
I like the fact that penalties go uncalled towards the end of the game and in overtime - the momentum gained from uninterrupted play is what makes overtime so special. It's better for the players (despite what Kovalev probably says now) as they get an opportunity to decide the game for themselves, it's better for the fans because uninterrupted overtime play is extremely exciting (and if anything, penalties going uncalled in overtime to help along the pace of the game is beneficial to new fans as they get treated to continuous fast pace action they don't normally don't get to see during the course of a 20 minute period), the only people who "letting the players play" is not beneficial is to the referees.
(None of the following is directly related to the Habs-Bruins game.)

You don't see anything wrong with effectively encouraging players to cheat at the end of a game and during overtime? Wouldn't "deciding the game for themselves" be more served if players weren't allowed to break the rules of the game to gain an advantage? I say let the team that plays the game best win the games, not the team that is best at breaking the rules.

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04-14-2004, 05:14 PM
  #31
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Its entirely possible the slash hit Kovalev on a nerve and he couldnt feel or use is hand for a short period of time. Anyone that has 'hit their funny bone' knows what that feels like.

The refs, Kovalev, and Souray all have blame to share here. However the refs can readily change the way they work, and we dont know what exactly happened to Kovalev.

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Old
04-14-2004, 06:24 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rye&ginger
However the refs can readily change the way they work
Not necessarily. If the league tells them to put their whistles away late in the game and overtime, they will do it if they want to keep moving on in the playoffs.

If you have worked any high profile league, you would know that.

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Old
04-14-2004, 09:27 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceber
(None of the following is directly related to the Habs-Bruins game.)

You don't see anything wrong with effectively encouraging players to cheat at the end of a game and during overtime? Wouldn't "deciding the game for themselves" be more served if players weren't allowed to break the rules of the game to gain an advantage? I say let the team that plays the game best win the games, not the team that is best at breaking the rules.
I don't think not calling penalties in overtime encourages them to cheat, there's an overwhelming worry about being "the guy" who takes a penalty that gives a team a powerplay goal in overtime, that's enough to keep the players in check. Players don't go into overtime with the mindset that "they won't call anything, I'm going to go out there and trip someone if I can" - as if they do, the referees call anything insanely blatant. The hesitance of wanting to put the other team on the powerplay is enough to deter players from taking insanely obvious penalties, and with rampart diving and embellishing the referees are flat out better off just to let the embellishment cancel out the penalty. Whether or not it's fair, who knows - but teams in general must learn one way or another to play through it.

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Old
04-14-2004, 10:09 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Dirty Chinaman
I didn't get to watch a lot of the game (I was crying at how badly the Canucks were playing) but the refs have a bad case of inconsistency some games.

I don't know what slashes were called, not called, but at the very least, if the ref felt he was embellishing, stop the play and give Kovalev a unsportsmanlike.

Personally, I would just give Kovalev the unsportsmanlike and the Boston player a slashing penalty, play four on four and try to keep the teams even.
Kovalev didnt dive. He just started shaking his wrist. So I dont think an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty should have been called either.

Bottom line...penalty or no penalty...Kovalev needs to take care of the puck regardless.

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04-14-2004, 10:11 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rye&ginger
Its entirely possible the slash hit Kovalev on a nerve and he couldnt feel or use is hand for a short period of time. Anyone that has 'hit their funny bone' knows what that feels like.

The refs, Kovalev, and Souray all have blame to share here. However the refs can readily change the way they work, and we dont know what exactly happened to Kovalev.
Cmon...he wasnt hurt. Everybody knows he was trying to get a call. And lets just say IF...and its a big IF...he did feel a pinch in his hand. He still has another good hand and his feet to play the puck. Or here is the real thing. A pinched nerve in his hand shouldnt cause him to get right in Sourays way.

Keep trying to make excuses for the guy. It was a dumb, selfish play by Kovalev. Why would you do something like this in 2 OT?

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Old
04-14-2004, 10:14 PM
  #36
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I disagreed with the third Boston goal (I think the angle it took out of the net made it unlikely that it didn't hit the post, but no camera angle on the shot was really that great) and I really disagreed with not calling the slash at centre ice on Kovalev. Now, the Habs were playing to lose during the last three periods, but that doesn't excuse the way they lost. The refs should've let them lose on their own terms.

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Old
04-14-2004, 10:17 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
I was at the game. I don't care who won the game. Boston won. That s fine, they played as well as Montreal did. It is the way they scored that sickens me.
Why does the rulebook get thrown out in the 3rd period in the playoffs? Why is everything aloud in overtime? Royal rumble style? Every man for himself?

In the nba, they call fouls in the last 3 seconds of game 7. In the nfl they call pass interferences in the 4th quarter. In the majors, umpires TRY to always make right call -ball or strike- in the bottom of the 9th. In international hockey, refs try to call things according to the rulebook. In the ncaa the same.

But the nhl? ahl? chl? whl? ohl? qjmhl? tier 2? I dunno. I dont care that we lost. that s fine. but the way it hapenned... it s just wrong. Why do the refs choose to be so incompetent at the end of games? And why does the league accept it?

Because "the refs dont want to be the reason a game ended". Well in this case, they were a reason and they didn t do a thing. In the regular season, that would obviously would have been Called.

The situation needs to be addressed, but won t be. And that is why hockey is not a mainstream sport in the states and that is why the nhl is the 4th of the major leagues. The officiating in several north american hockey leagues is a joke. The players know it, the coaches know it, management knows it, the refs know it, the league knows it, the comissioner knows it. And yet it s been like this for as long as I have followed hockey. And it won t change.

And this just plain wrong.
boston played just as good as montreal, were u watching the same game, or did u just look at the stat sheet after the game, cuz if u actualy watch this game, its obvious that montreal dominated, so pls :mad:

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Old
04-14-2004, 10:23 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
Cmon...he wasnt hurt. Everybody knows he was trying to get a call. And lets just say IF...and its a big IF...he did feel a pinch in his hand. He still has another good hand and his feet to play the puck. Or here is the real thing. A pinched nerve in his hand shouldnt cause him to get right in Sourays way.

Keep trying to make excuses for the guy. It was a dumb, selfish play by Kovalev. Why would you do something like this in 2 OT?

EXACTLY, KOVALEV KNEW IT WAS 2ND OVERTIME, AND ESP[ECIALLY AS THE LAST MAN BACK, HE HAD 2 MAKE SURE THAT HIS DEFENSEMAN GOT THE PUCK OR THAT HE HAD CLEARED IT, HE COULD OF DONE A NUMBER OF THINGS 2 AVOID THIS TRAGEDY, HE COULD OF KICKED IT AWAY, USED HIS OTHER HAND, HE COULD OF BACKED UP OR JUST STAY IN FRONT ON THE PUCK, HE JUST LEFT IT THEREAND WENT AWAY LIEK HE WAS SHOT! ILL NEVER GET OVER THIS, CUZ HIS STUPIDITY AND BAD JUDGEMENT COST THE HABS THE SERIES, IT PISSES ME OFF BIGTIME, OH AND HATS OFF 2 THEO, WHO LOOKED LIEK A MIDGET GOALIE JUST STADING THERE HOPING THE PUCK WOULD HIT HIM, THIS GUY LET THE ENTIRE CITY OF MONTREAL DOWN :mad:

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04-14-2004, 10:23 PM
  #39
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Buddy, from the third on, the Habs couldn't even receive a pass.

I'm sorry, I wanted them to win as much as anyone, but they blew a 3-1 lead. I don't think they blew the game, but I don't officiate for the NHL.

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Old
04-14-2004, 10:30 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Mercury
Buddy, from the third on, the Habs couldn't even receive a pass.

I'm sorry, I wanted them to win as much as anyone, but they blew a 3-1 lead. I don't think they blew the game, but I don't officiate for the NHL.
did u c how close they got 2 scoring and they were always in the bruin zone, if it was ne other goialie we would of been up 3 1 this series, but i agree with u in the blowing a 3 1 lead

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Old
04-14-2004, 11:03 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Van
Not necessarily. If the league tells them to put their whistles away late in the game and overtime, they will do it if they want to keep moving on in the playoffs.

If you have worked any high profile league, you would know that.
yeah r&g, youre a real ******* for never having reffed in a high-profile league before...

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04-15-2004, 12:17 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Dartmouth 02
yeah r&g, youre a real ******* for never having reffed in a high-profile league before...
Just to clear that up, I wasn't trying to be cocky about my accomplishments (list will grow next week :p )....I seem to remember r&g saying he had officiated junior hockey somewhere.

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Old
04-15-2004, 01:08 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rye&ginger
Its entirely possible the slash hit Kovalev on a nerve and he couldnt feel or use is hand for a short period of time. Anyone that has 'hit their funny bone' knows what that feels like.

The refs, Kovalev, and Souray all have blame to share here. However the refs can readily change the way they work, and we dont know what exactly happened to Kovalev.
I've hit my funny bone, and while I might swear, I'd have the sense to kick the puck to the boards and not run into a player on my team. Unless Kovalev got hit on that magical spot on your hand that disables your entire bodily function for 30 seconds, there is zero excuse.

Plus, it wasn't one of the slashes from the sides that sneak between the cuff of the glove and the bottom of your elbow pad and hurt like hell. It was a little tap on one of the most protected places a hockey player has.

His reaction would have been understandable if his hand was shattered, and he was having surgery today. Instead, he's got a little piece of gauze wrapped around his hand. There is simply no defending this guy.

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Old
04-15-2004, 09:21 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora
how though? with no ref intervention, aren't the players left to decide who physically and emotionally wants it more?
What does that have to do with the refs making the right calls consistently throughout a game? The refs are a part of the game, and are always intervening by making the CHOICES they make, be it making a call or not making a call. Both are equal in their effect on a game. Just because something doesnt happen in an obvious way, doesnt mean it had no effect.

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04-15-2004, 09:23 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
Not necessarily. If the league tells them to put their whistles away late in the game and overtime, they will do it if they want to keep moving on in the playoffs.

If you have worked any high profile league, you would know that.
Yeah I meant the refs and league being one in the same, since they work for the league. The directive has to come from the league on this whole issue.

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Old
04-15-2004, 09:27 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
Cmon...he wasnt hurt. Everybody knows he was trying to get a call. And lets just say IF...and its a big IF...he did feel a pinch in his hand. He still has another good hand and his feet to play the puck. Or here is the real thing. A pinched nerve in his hand shouldnt cause him to get right in Sourays way.

Keep trying to make excuses for the guy. It was a dumb, selfish play by Kovalev. Why would you do something like this in 2 OT?

Im making excuses for eveyone, because many had a part in this. Same for you, Silver.

I said Kovalev screwed up, and was giving a breakdown of it. If thats the end of the story for you, fine. I feel the refs had a part in this also. Deal with it.

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Old
04-16-2004, 03:59 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
Not necessarily. If the league tells them to put their whistles away late in the game and overtime, they will do it if they want to keep moving on in the playoffs.

If you have worked any high profile league, you would know that.
and that goes against all what referee defenders have been saying... i thought they wanted to make sure the game was as fair and safe and even as possible in their eyes, not in the league's eyes so they can up their career to the next round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
Kovalev didnt dive. He just started shaking his wrist. So I dont think an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty should have been called either.

Bottom line...penalty or no penalty...Kovalev needs to take care of the puck regardless.
what kovalev did was far worse than a dive, he could have atleast dove on the puck to get a whistle

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Old
04-16-2004, 04:31 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora
and that goes against all what referee defenders have been saying... i thought they wanted to make sure the game was as fair and safe and even as possible in their eyes, not in the league's eyes so they can up their career to the next round
Part of moving to the next level is adapting to how the league you work for wants you to call their games. That's not to say that referees don't earn their own stripes, but if your league tells you to put that whistle away in overtime, you will do it or risk losing your job.

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Old
04-17-2004, 01:03 AM
  #49
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i think officiating in the NHL is horrible an by far the worst of any of the major sports. I mean you need to flip a coin in knowing how the refs are going to call the game. In my eyes they don't have any consistancy from one game to the next . This is one of my pet peeves with the NHL and is a major concern that needs to be addressed for the better of the game.

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Old
04-17-2004, 01:15 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by richardn
I mean you need to flip a coin in knowing how the refs are going to call the game.
That is because different games have different situations which call for different standards of officiating.

Some games simply need to be called tighter (or more lenient) than others.

It is the reality of hockey. Officiating has always been this way. Why is it all of a sudden a huge problem now?

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