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Higgins has got to bury his chances

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Old
11-14-2007, 08:56 PM
  #51
Owen Wilson
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it's only a matter of time before Higgins starts burying his chances...I mean, he practically creates a scoring opportunity every time he's out there

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11-14-2007, 09:04 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Caballero View Post
Wow. A higgins hater. I guess there's a first time for everything.
I quietly questioned Higgins on a different forum and almost got my head taken off.


I'm still not sold on the kids offensive potential and I see him as a future 2nd liner (a good one though). I just don't see first line, 35 - 40 goal potential in the kid.

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11-14-2007, 09:47 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mue View Post
I quietly questioned Higgins on a different forum and almost got my head taken off.


I'm still not sold on the kids offensive potential and I see him as a future 2nd liner (a good one though). I just don't see first line, 35 - 40 goal potential in the kid.
Higgins is a work horse............He and Chipchura would dominate together!!!

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11-14-2007, 09:49 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mue View Post
I quietly questioned Higgins on a different forum and almost got my head taken off.


I'm still not sold on the kids offensive potential and I see him as a future 2nd liner (a good one though). I just don't see first line, 35 - 40 goal potential in the kid.
In his rookie season after the olympic break he was the second hottest scorer in the league.

He followed that up with being a Point Per Game at the beginning of last season before his injury.

He's even better offensively this year as far as creating space and oppurtunities, he has just got to get his finishing back. But when it does, he'll score 40.

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11-14-2007, 09:52 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Exactly. but to be honest, the second line guys are playing well enough to be promoted, but their chemistry makes them untouchable. It's the third and fourth line (+ press box) guys who have the opportunity but aren't showing themselves worthy.
The so called second line is really the first line now....

I mean it even has our biggest offensive weapon on it... (Kovalev)

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11-14-2007, 09:55 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
The so called second line is really the first line now....
I agree

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11-14-2007, 10:15 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
The so called second line is really the first line now....

I mean it even has our biggest offensive weapon on it... (Kovalev)
Agreed. Usually when I assign line labels I imply " " around them. It's easier than trying to use 1A and 1B and figuring out which to use for either each week. I still think Saku is our best player, so his line gets "first line" honours in my posts.

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11-14-2007, 10:19 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Exactly. but to be honest, the second line guys are playing well enough to be promoted, but their chemistry makes them untouchable. It's the third and fourth line (+ press box) guys who have the opportunity but aren't showing themselves worthy.
Unfortunately that is exactly what was said about the first line and their chemistry. Lets not forget the Kosty, Pleks, Kovy line has played what 4 games together, and while the success is very welcome we can't not forget its just that, a short span.

IMO, Montreal has two second lines. Neither can carry the team through a season. However you will see stretches where the Koivu line carries the team like it did the first 8 games or so, then stretches were both lines struggle to score or both succeed, and times the Pleks line carries the team. The simple fact Montreal lacks a consistent game breaker is the reason.

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Old
11-14-2007, 11:06 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Caballero View Post
Wow. A higgins hater. I guess there's a first time for everything.
Higgins hater : not so much. I just hate when the fans are intolerent at Kovalev when he has ONE bad shift, and how people just seem to consider Plekanec as a very less talented player than Higgins.

I mean, stop looking just at Higgins. Get over it, he's not the future offensive star everybody is waiting for. The only young player on this team who can eventually become a PPG scorer is Tomas Plekanec, which is, in my opinion, a more complete Saku Koivu in the making. Kostitsyn JR will complete Plekanec and Kostitsyn in the future as our first line left winger. I could see Higgins as our future 2nd line left winger, completing probably Pacioretti and an offensive player acquired via trade or as an UFA. Chipchura, Lapierre, D'Agostini/Latendresse is going to be our third line, and who knows what our 4th line will look like.

Anyway, all this to tell that don't get TOO excited about Higgins. I like this player as well, but let's be realistic and not hope 80 pts/ 40 G per year from him. 60pts per year would be awesome IMO.

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11-15-2007, 02:39 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by plafleur10 View Post
I don't know if you have noted, Chris Higgins is playing great, getting tons of chances, but he seems to have some trouble putting it in.

Again Saturday, in the final seconds, he fanned on a perfect chance right in the near slot, just before the 'Canes scored their empty netter...

Let's hope he does not suffer the "Rejean Houle syndrome" as the older ones among us will rember poor Rejean was very skilled, but could not have scored in an empty soccer net...

BTW, quick question, is this fellow Michael Ryder still playing for the Habs, haven't noticed him on the ice yet this year?
This is why I always have trouble seeing him as a 65 point guy. Dont get me wrong, I like higgins alot but his finish is mediocre at best. We;ve seen stretches where everything goes in for him but I think what we see now more represents what we're going to get.

Regardless of his chances, most of his goals are coming from stuffing rebounds in the net... and that's what he needs to continue to do... he's not the most skilled finisher.

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11-15-2007, 09:29 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
In his rookie season after the olympic break he was the second hottest scorer in the league.

He followed that up with being a Point Per Game at the beginning of last season before his injury.

He's even better offensively this year as far as creating space and oppurtunities, he has just got to get his finishing back. But when it does, he'll score 40.
Yeah, I've heard all the arguments, and I would love to be wrong - horribly wrong about him - but until I see it I just don't buy it.

Higgins is a treat to watch but I see him putting up Zednik (50 points) like numbers (while playing a better all-around game).

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11-15-2007, 11:40 AM
  #62
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I'm still recovering from the opinion offered by some here that Higgins is better than Hossa.

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11-15-2007, 11:55 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I'm still recovering from the opinion offered by some here that Higgins is better than Hossa.
His contract certainly makes him more valuable.

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11-15-2007, 12:22 PM
  #64
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I enjoy how quickly people pass judgement on players on this board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StreiMMermlik
I mean, stop looking just at Higgins. Get over it, he's not the future offensive star everybody is waiting for. The only young player on this team who can eventually become a PPG scorer is Tomas Plekanec, which is, in my opinion, a more complete Saku Koivu in the making.
24 years old and you're saying Higgins doesn't even have the possibility of eventually becoming a PPG scorer?

Oh, and we're intolerant of Kovalev because he's older, already has all the skills to be a 100 point player in this league, yet even on his good nights will sometimes just give up on the puck and stop trying during particular shifts. Luckily, this season I'll be the first to admit that he's been much more of a positive than a negative, and he's heading to around a PPG season - this is what he needs to do.

When he's on - he's one of the best pure talents in the league. The crap he pulled last year, though, wasn't acceptable.

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Old
11-16-2007, 11:10 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by KostitsyntheBagBaby View Post
His contract certainly makes him more valuable.
Higgins' current value is absolutely dwarfed by Hossa's no matter the salary. You are comparing a top 10% NHL forward with a decent player who might become more.

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11-16-2007, 12:20 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mue View Post
I quietly questioned Higgins on a different forum and almost got my head taken off.


I'm still not sold on the kids offensive potential and I see him as a future 2nd liner (a good one though). I just don't see first line, 35 - 40 goal potential in the kid.
For what it's worth, Pierre Maguire shares your opinion and has stated similar things on the Team990.

He's such a workhorse, such a well-rounded player, and seems like such a good leader that you can't help but love the way he plays. But I don't know if consistent 40+ seasons is a reasonable expectation. I do think 30G 30A is not out of the question at all though.

One thing that's interesting though is that if you look at his SH% the past 2 years, he's been around 13-15.5%, while this year he's hovering around 9%. Although it's early in the season, and it may not seem like a big difference, if he were shooting at say 14%, he'd have 9 G instead of 6 this year. So he may be in a slump, though one that's just not as bad as Ryder's...

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11-16-2007, 12:28 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StreiMMermlik View Post
Higgins hater : not so much. I just hate when the fans are intolerent at Kovalev when he has ONE bad shift, and how people just seem to consider Plekanec as a very less talented player than Higgins.

I mean, stop looking just at Higgins. Get over it, he's not the future offensive star everybody is waiting for. The only young player on this team who can eventually become a PPG scorer is Tomas Plekanec, which is, in my opinion, a more complete Saku Koivu in the making. Kostitsyn JR will complete Plekanec and Kostitsyn in the future as our first line left winger. I could see Higgins as our future 2nd line left winger, completing probably Pacioretti and an offensive player acquired via trade or as an UFA. Chipchura, Lapierre, D'Agostini/Latendresse is going to be our third line, and who knows what our 4th line will look like.

Anyway, all this to tell that don't get TOO excited about Higgins. I like this player as well, but let's be realistic and not hope 80 pts/ 40 G per year from him. 60pts per year would be awesome IMO.
I agree. Until he pots more than 40 points in a season, the jury is out on him. Sure he works hard and has a pretty complete hockey game, but he really needs to put those numbers up before I will consider him being the next Lecavalier.

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Old
11-16-2007, 01:32 PM
  #68
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Higgins has improved every year but...Pleks has rocketed up the past few years.

Plekanecs right now is a better player than Higgins I find.
The thing I love about those two, is that they compete hard, defensively aware, can play pk, pp, last couple of minutes.

I love those two, hope to lock them up with long contracts.

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Old
02-06-2008, 01:48 PM
  #69
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Higgins has got to bury his chances

NO HIGGINS VS LATENDRESSE DEBATE IN THIS THREAD PLEASE!
This aims to be strictly a discussion about Higgins' role with the team
------------------------------

I've always been a huge Higgins fan and I've always been thinking that his potential had no limit.
But hockey players with great potential usually evolve...
And although he was ready to play one year before we called him up (I was there for the opening night in 2003-2004, and he was one of the best player on ice and there was no doubt in my mind that he could play with the big guys) I don't think he has evolved all that much.
I've seen him play with Plekanec when he was in Hamilton and IMO, he was clearly the better player.
However, since then, he hasn't really progressed. Sure he is stronger. But is not faster, doesn't have a better shot and doesn't deke more (actually, his deking has regressed compared to last season... not that it was stellar anyways)
Compared to other young vets, with whom he was toe to toe last season, he now looks like a full step below.

Markov is an All Star
Komi is a Monster
Plekanec looks like a 1st line center
EVEN Kost (Jimmy) has surpassed him.
And some could even argue that Kost (Billy) and Lats will soon surpass him...

I'm not saying that I'm throwing the towell or that we should trade him. I love everything he brings to the table.
However, my question is :

Shouldn't he be more useful playing on the PK and on the 3rd line, where his deceptive speed could take the opponent pants down and where he could score maybe 20 goals la Bob Gainey, Guy Carbonneau and Mike Mcphee (find who doesn't belong to the list )

I still like him enough to be a core member of the team. But I'm starting to think that maybe as an asset, he would be more useful as the building block of a good threatening 3rd line than as a 1st-2nd liner on whom we should rely offensively.
Because with all the chances he's had this season and with his inability to score, I'm thinking that he might lacks a bit of the offensive flair needed to play on the top two lines.

Fire away.

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02-06-2008, 01:51 PM
  #70
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he's not really a third liner. not that there is anything wrong with anyone who is. Higgins is just fighting it right now. Plekanec had a break out year this year perhaps next year it will be Higgins or maybe he'll go on tear towards the end of the season instead and into the playoffs.

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02-06-2008, 01:51 PM
  #71
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Higgins is a 3rd liner when he plays like one and this season, he has played like a 3rd lines a lot. Last year he was a 1st liner because he played like it and put some points up....but this year he has played awful so its his fault if he sees icetime on the 3rd line some nights.

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02-06-2008, 01:55 PM
  #72
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It's still too early to say. A better, more accurate assessment can be done next season. So far, he's played great in the second half of 05/06, and great at the beginning of the 06/07 season. After that, well I think most can admit that he's been very streaky at best, quite inconsistent at worst.

I think it's best to wait to see how he performs next season. Maybe this season he really is having a slump and it's not representative of his potential. Higgins seems to think he;s a 40/40 kind of guy, I'll take his word on it for now.

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Old
02-06-2008, 01:57 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexstream View Post
NO HIGGINS VS LATENDRESSE DEBATE IN THIS THREAD PLEASE!
This aims to be strictly a discussion about Higgins' role with the team
------------------------------

I've always been a huge Higgins fan and I've always been thinking that his potential had no limit.
But hockey players with great potential usually evolve...
And although he was ready to play one year before we called him up (I was there for the opening night in 2003-2004, and he was one of the best player on ice and there was no doubt in my mind that he could play with the big guys) I don't think he has evolved all that much.
I've seen him play with Plekanec when he was in Hamilton and IMO, he was clearly the better player.
However, since then, he hasn't really progressed. Sure he is stronger. But is not faster, doesn't have a better shot and doesn't deke more (actually, his deking has regressed compared to last season... not that it was stellar anyways)
Compared to other young vets, with whom he was toe to toe last season, he now looks like a full step below.

Markov is an All Star
Komi is a Monster
Plekanec looks like a 1st line center
EVEN Kost (Jimmy) has surpassed him.
And some could even argue that Kost (Billy) and Lats will soon surpass him...

I'm not saying that I'm throwing the towell or that we should trade him. I love everything he brings to the table.
However, my question is :

Shouldn't he be more useful playing on the PK and on the 3rd line, where his deceptive speed could take the opponent pants down and where he could score maybe 20 goals la Bob Gainey, Guy Carbonneau and Mike Mcphee (find who doesn't belong to the list )

I still like him enough to be a core member of the team. But I'm starting to think that maybe as an asset, he would be more useful as the building block of a good threatening 3rd line than as a 1st-2nd liner on whom we should rely offensively.
Because with all the chances he's had this season and with his inability to score, I'm thinking that he might lacks a bit of the offensive flair needed to play on the top two lines.

Fire away.
To some extand, you are right. He is suffering from the shofmore jinx. Also, with the A on is shoulder maybe to much. I didn't like a few of his comments...personnaly, he not very good at PR with the media. But he at least he talks with his heart.
He could very well be a great 2nd line winger and at worst a 3rd liner. I never saw 1st line material talent wise. Just my 2 cents

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Old
02-06-2008, 01:57 PM
  #74
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I see him as a potential shut down specialist with some offensive skills... see Mike Fisher ..

We need to hold into him, those type of players are very important come playoff time !

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Old
02-06-2008, 01:58 PM
  #75
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It's just his third season: be a little more patient. I think he's been contributing regularly so far, not with the same flair that Pleks or the K-brothers, but I think he'll grow into a well-rounded second-line winger that'll give you 25-30 goals every year.

Also, do not be tricked by this year's stats as they are pulled downwards because of Koivu's line being shuffled all the time. That whole line has issues this year. Usually, 4th years are breakout years for players in the NHL. So we'll see how it goes next year, but I still have faith in this guy to lead the Habs for a good long while.

Btw, I know you said not to talk about it, but all of these arguments go for Latendresse X 2 (as he is younger than Higgins and is playing on worse lines). Sorry couldn't resist.

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