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04-15-2004, 11:45 AM
  #26
Unholy Diver
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the simple fact of the matter is that the refs put the whistle away in double OT in the playoffs, it always has been that way and unless someone gets really railed on a play or gets he arm chopped off its not gonna be a penalty

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04-15-2004, 12:59 PM
  #27
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rembrandt Q. Einstein
the simple fact of the matter is that the refs put the whistle away in double OT in the playoffs, it always has been that way and unless someone gets really railed on a play or gets he arm chopped off its not gonna be a penalty
Which is one of the many reasons the NHL is looked upon as a garage league by the general public.

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04-15-2004, 01:35 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly>
Which is one of the many reasons the NHL is looked upon as a garage league by the general public.
Incorrect. The general public doesn't look at the NHL. Which is why women's bowling gets higher ratings.

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04-15-2004, 02:49 PM
  #29
Jeff Goldblum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly>
Which is one of the many reasons the NHL is looked upon as a garage league by the general public.

I don't think the general public has the understanding of the rules to be angered at a non-call.

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04-15-2004, 03:19 PM
  #30
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Pens4ever
I don't think the general public has the understanding of the rules to be angered at a non-call.
It is well known that NHL refs put away their whistles in OT.

Any non-fan has enough common sense to know when a player gets tripped or hacked it is a penalty.

I have talked to countless people who don't follow the game and ask me why they don't make the calls in OT.

I have yet to give a good reason.

When the NCAA softball championship has higher ratings than the Stanley Cup again this year, maybe the NHL will take a hint. I seriously doubt it though.

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Old
04-15-2004, 05:03 PM
  #31
Speed Kills
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Originally Posted by kutdacheez
When we traded Petr Nedved, Chris Tamer, and Sean Pronger for Alexei Kovalev it was one of the better trades ever made by Craig Patrick. When we dumped his salary back to the NY RAG$ that was the end.

This team is off to hopefully bigger and better things but there is always that contingent of posters who want to bring back our older players. Personally, I hope we don't. Kovalev was one of my personal favorites and is one of the better players in all of hockey. Other than overhandling the puck sometimes he doesn't really have too many weaknesses.

To say that he never faked an injury I'd say that the one where he laid on the ice behind the play in a RAG$ playoff game was a suspected one. They stopped the game . . . reviewed it and gave out a penalty. I caught the back part of a replay coming back from a bathrrom break during one of the intermissions last night. I recalled that happening but not the particulars. Anyone else remember it?

As to whether Kovalev was faking it, or not faking . . . well, there are opinions like Mr. Jiggyfly's which is one planet and opinions like Barry Melrose's that are on another planet. Light years apart . . . both delivered with a strong persuasion and belief that they "really" know what went on.

In reality, Kovalev knows . . . everyone else is just pretending that they know.
I just wanted to know why you might not one to see Kovy back in Pitt. I agree with you that he can do it all and think he can be a great leader for our younger players. I would love to see him on a line with Malkin and Koltsov.

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Old
04-15-2004, 06:39 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutdacheez
When we traded Petr Nedved, Chris Tamer, and Sean Pronger for Alexei Kovalev it was one of the better trades ever made by Craig Patrick. When we dumped his salary back to the NY RAG$ that was the end.

This team is off to hopefully bigger and better things but there is always that contingent of posters who want to bring back our older players. Personally, I hope we don't. Kovalev was one of my personal favorites and is one of the better players in all of hockey. Other than overhandling the puck sometimes he doesn't really have too many weaknesses.
I agree. I've been saying its time to move on with Kovalev for a while. A Great player and a nice guy, but so was a ton of other ex-penguins.

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Old
04-15-2004, 06:54 PM
  #33
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Jiggyfly . . . sometimes there are things that we can agree on.

Mario famous NHL observance was: "It's a garage league."
Brett Hall said: "The game sucks. Its boring. I would never pay to watch this."

This week's THN has a player poll taken that said only 23% of the players who get eliminated said they regularly watch the playoffs after their team get eliminated! The others s percentages of the players: 17% Never; 23% Rarely and remaining 37% said Occasionally. Keith Primeau said he hadn't watch a playoff game in ten years. Does anyone in charge, get it yet?

The NHL just doesn't get it at all. Teams used to be able to pay their entire operating expenses, including player salaries with ticket revenue. Who gave a good hoot?
But teams are now operating in bankruptcy mode and Buffalo, Pittsburgh and Ottawa have been through the wringer. Yet the only thing that can be done to save the game is to build in a Salary Cap AND build up a TV revenue.

The TV revenue isn't there for a number of reasons. The first of which is the game as it is played today is boring. Not to the winners it isn't boring . . . it is boring to everyone else. You might catch a good game here and there and a great game once in a while. Watching the playoffs and seeing the gobs of empty seats and seeing the boxscore the next morning as a sellout should tell us all something. The people in the last Calg/Van game weren't disguised as empty seats. The regular season is so drawn out that even the players get bored with it. The game is so boring that the TV ratings have been pushed into the pits.

There are a number of reasons given for these ratings and the NHL has done nothing about any of them.
For example:

(a) The game is called by referees with the same credibility as referees in the WWF. What is a penalty one time . . . isn't a penalty another time. Depends on the situation. Fans look at it and cringe. Yet the all-mighty NHL hockey fan wants to hold on to this and actually justifies the action with a "that's the playoffs" type response. One time (about ten years ago) the THN had a cartoon on the cover where a player SHOT another player but nothing was called because it was playoff game and in OT. It was a joke . . . but then it really wasn't a joke, was it.

(b) The GM's meet to have a think-tank to suggest ways to change the game. Like they needed a think-tank. Is anything going to be done. Maybe they will disallow a goal similar to the NCAA playoffs for a toenail in the crease again.

(c) Goalies have been run-over like it was part of the rules. A puckcarrier breaks away and the person beat can take his stick a . . . I believe the word is "tug" at the player to have him break stride so that one of the other Saskatchewan Wheat Farmers can catch up to him and "tug" him some more. I have nothing against wheat farmers but I picture some of these hockey players training with sickles and Reap hooks. That is the reason why many people TURN-OFF the TV's.

(d) There are tons of examples of obstruction, slashing, kicking, etc. that don't get called in any game . . . and if the player is like Jagr (or Kovalev), refuses to go down nothing is called. Did anyone think that may be a reason why players dive. Just to make up for the calls that weren't made.

(e) Nothing is more exciting than to see a puck dropped and two goons who shouldn't be playing in the AHL drop their gloves in an attempt to do something but no one knows exactly what. They then get removed only to come back after sitting for five-minutes to go at it again. Think about it once. How many mothers of the world would let their children watch this? It's about as stupid as the WWF only almost everyone knows the WWF is staged. In the NHL it is just "put up with."

(f) Fighting isn't part of the game. People can say when a fight breaks out everyone jumps up. Think about that for a while . . . this is a sport where you can't really tell what is a penalty or what isn't a penalty . . . where the stars of the game can't open things up because the referees allow the written rules to be broken and thugs punch each other brains out when it has nothing to do with the game at all. Does anyone really expect a load of people to watch this? The rating tell you the answer to that question. The public has turned the sport off. The ticket prices have made it a budget burden on just about everyone. Meaningless games, in an overlong season, high ticket prices, high beer prices, high parking prices have finally caught up to the majority of NHL Owners.

Look at some other areas where they screwed up. This one will bring them out of the woodwork . . . but FOX TV worked with the NHL to try and bring some cold-hard cash into the business. However, new inovations don't work too well with the standard (I'm a loser, my Dad was a loser so we will all be losers attitude of the vocal hockey fans) . . . they rejected the FOX stuff (and maybe some of it was a little hokie) . . . but the marketed the game, had the glow puck were the TV fans could actually see the puck on the near boards and the puck had a streak following it (red or blue) depending on how fast it was moving. It was being tweaked with but got such a loud cry from fans . . . FOX, the glow puck and most of all the cold hard cash dissapeared. How stupid.
One of the most stupid complaints I remember hearing was that FOX had animated robots when the scores were put up. Now that really was tough for those hard core hockey fans to take.
So, without the TV revenue the fans got their ticket prices hiked up beyond belief. In this case IMO the NHL didn't stay long enough with it and the fans (not the NHL) were the ones that stopped the revenue flow. Those hard core fans point to FOX as runing their sport when in my opinion it was the first time the NHL was being promoted and they and the fans couldn't handle it.
The players don't watch it and wonder why the fans do. The fans can't afford to purchase the tickets anymore because the NHL has priced themslves out of the percieved value of their product . . . and the same fans scream that nothings wrong or there are too many soft Euros or to much expansion or whatever total BS people like to scream about when they see the dead body.
It cause is a number of things but will not be improved until they collectively come out of the garage and seriously want do something about it. Right now neither the players, owners nor a large group of fans really care too much.

They will. Whoops, I gotta go, The Apprentice is about to start . . . followed up by some World Poker.

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Old
04-15-2004, 06:58 PM
  #34
kutdacheez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Kills
I just wanted to know why you might not one to see Kovy back in Pitt. I agree with you that he can do it all and think he can be a great leader for our younger players. I would love to see him on a line with Malkin and Koltsov.
Read Clefty . . . he's right on the mark. Why would you stop with Kovalev? The $parc are picking up half of Jagr's salary.
Hmmm, LW Sivek, C Beech . . . RW Jagr . . . :lol

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Old
04-15-2004, 08:17 PM
  #35
Speed Kills
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutdacheez
Read Clefty . . . he's right on the mark. Why would you stop with Kovalev? The $parc are picking up half of Jagr's salary.
Hmmm, LW Sivek, C Beech . . . RW Jagr . . . :lol
I would start and stop with Kovalev because he is a nice guy and has great skills. Maybe I am optomistic but, I strongly feel the Pens can make the playoffs next year. Kovy can carry a team in the playoffs and make then very difficult to beat.

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Old
04-16-2004, 01:21 PM
  #36
kutdacheez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Kills
I would start and stop with Kovalev because he is a nice guy and has great skills. Maybe I am optomistic but, I strongly feel the Pens can make the playoffs next year. Kovy can carry a team in the playoffs and make then very difficult to beat.
SK, everyone has an opinion. Mine was, and I am on-record at the time, supporting trading Jagr and the entire lot one and a half-season before Jagr got dumped. I cringed to see CP let Lang go into FA. It was tough watching how they waited too long (IMO) and got so much less in return than if they started earlier. I got beat-up quite a bit with that opinion.

I just don't like to look back. It's like rehiring an employee that you already let go or that went off to higher grounds and it didn't work the way they thought. Usually, it doesn't work out so well. I was just kidding with the Jagr example, BTW.

The Penguins are building a pretty decent base, but just like when people thought drafting mario that everything would turn around in a few years . . . it didn't. If it was that easy every team would be doing it. This is a long grind it out process with no guarantees at the end of the line.

Anyhow, that's how I see it. No offense to any of you who feel differently . . . that why these type of boards exist.

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Old
04-16-2004, 04:32 PM
  #37
Speed Kills
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutdacheez
SK, everyone has an opinion. Mine was, and I am on-record at the time, supporting trading Jagr and the entire lot one and a half-season before Jagr got dumped. I cringed to see CP let Lang go into FA. It was tough watching how they waited too long (IMO) and got so much less in return than if they started earlier. I got beat-up quite a bit with that opinion.

I just don't like to look back. It's like rehiring an employee that you already let go or that went off to higher grounds and it didn't work the way they thought. Usually, it doesn't work out so well. I was just kidding with the Jagr example, BTW.

The Penguins are building a pretty decent base, but just like when people thought drafting mario that everything would turn around in a few years . . . it didn't. If it was that easy every team would be doing it. This is a long grind it out process with no guarantees at the end of the line.

Anyhow, that's how I see it. No offense to any of you who feel differently . . . that why these type of boards exist.
No offense taken, I have several opinions and after viwing some statements here I have changed my mine. Thank u for taking the time and responding

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Old
04-18-2004, 02:40 AM
  #38
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Kovalev rules !!!
what a line with koivu and zednik !!

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