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So who do you see as the Flyers Main Target

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Old
01-31-2008, 04:52 PM
  #51
maniac
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guys and this is coming from a habs fan who hates the leafs with a passion


kaberle is a great dman and one of my favs and it just pains me he is playing with such a team lol

i wish we had him he reminds me alot of markov but he is very dangerous on the PP and very smart in his defensive zone

yes he is soft but just pairing him up with a physical dman should do the trick

my 2cents hehe

gl to u guys the rest of the way

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Old
02-07-2008, 11:20 AM
  #52
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I didnt feel like making a new thread, so i decided to post this here...

Information on Carter, #3 on tsn.ca at being traded before deadline

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=229090&hubname=

Quote:
3. The same should apply to Philadelphia's Jeff Carter. If the Flyers land Forsberg or shock the league with a wild pitch for Sundin as some suggest may happen, Carter will be a piece. He's a restricted free agent next year and it appears his money is about to be invested elsewhere.
True or False?

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02-07-2008, 11:43 AM
  #53
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What would it take to land Jay Bouwmeester?

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02-07-2008, 11:45 AM
  #54
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What would it take to land Jay Bouwmeester?
Probably too much

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Old
02-07-2008, 12:09 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I didnt feel like making a new thread, so i decided to post this here...

Information on Carter, #3 on tsn.ca at being traded before deadline

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=229090&hubname=



True or False?
I do not understand... Why Flyers can not waive Hatcher.. instead of trading Carter.

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02-07-2008, 12:13 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
I do not understand... Why Flyers can not waive Hatcher.. instead of trading Carter.
I dont know, maybe their just dumb....There are at least 5 moves I would make before moving Carter.


EDIT: We better not make a wild pitch for Sundin....This team should not be trying to make that big splash to win this year while sacrificing the next couple.

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02-07-2008, 12:13 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
I do not understand... Why Flyers can not waive Hatcher.. instead of trading Carter.
Because Hatcher has one more year on his contract, I think they feel like they'll be disrespecting him if they waive him. Plus, it'll discourage other veterans in the later stages of their careers from coming to Philly. Waiving Hatcher will be a worst-case-scenario option, me thinks.

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02-07-2008, 12:16 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Because Hatcher has one more year on his contract, I think they feel like they'll be disrespecting him if they waive him. Plus, it'll discourage other veterans in the later stages of their careers from coming to Philly. Waiving Hatcher will be a worst-case-scenario option, me thinks.
You dont trade a future #1 center in the league (potentially) because you feel bad waiving someone with a year left. I would bet someone would take him on reentry waivers.

No one will ever not want to come to this organization. Look at the free agents we got after being the worst team in the league.

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02-07-2008, 12:18 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Because Hatcher has one more year on his contract, I think they feel like they'll be disrespecting him if they waive him. Plus, it'll discourage other veterans in the later stages of their careers from coming to Philly. Waiving Hatcher will be a worst-case-scenario option, me thinks.
Disrespecting Hatcher? What about disrespecting Gauthier?

I do not have a problem disrespecting Hacther if we get to keep Carter.

Kapanen has one goal in how many games?
Waive Vandermeer or Dowd or both.
Knuble seems to have a good value now.. 21 goals 2nd in PP among the league.
Trade Kukkonen. Move Upshall (he is a great kid but come on)...

Screw this loyalty *****

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02-07-2008, 12:23 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Disrespecting Hatcher? What about disrespecting Gauthier?

I do not have a problem disrespecting Hacther if we get to keep Carter.

Kapanen has one goal in how many games?
Waive Vandermeer or Dowd or both.
Knuble seems to have a good value now.. 21 goals 2nd in PP among the league.
Trade Kukkonen. Move Upshall (he is a great kid but come on)...

Kaktus, armageddon is upon us.....we agree

As I said, there are about 5 moves I make before I trade Carter

Waive Hatcher
Waive/trade Vanduhmeer
Waive/trade Kapanen (although I love the guy)
Waive/trade Knuble (although I love the guy)
NOT sign Forsberg
Trade Umberger or Upshall

Ok, that is 6


I wish Edmonton had a great younger top 4 dman they could trade us. If I HAD to move Carter, I would say for Stoll (our third line center) and that top 4 dman if they had him.


Last edited by mikedifr: 02-07-2008 at 12:30 PM.
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Old
02-07-2008, 12:31 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
You dont trade a future #1 center in the league (potentially) because you feel bad waiving someone with a year left. I would bet someone would take him on reentry waivers.

No one will ever not want to come to this organization. Look at the free agents we got after being the worst team in the league.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Disrespecting Hatcher? What about disrespect Gauthier?

I do not have a problem disrespecting Hacther if we get to keep Carter.

I don't want Carter to leave Philly; I'd like him to be a career Flyer. I'll be extremely upset if they trade him.

I just don't think it sets a good precedent by burying guys in the minors. Gauthier got screwed, Hatcher might get screwed and the more guys that are sent to the minors, the less likely this team will attract vets.

Sure the Flyers signed some top end talent in the off season, but if they send Timonen to the minors in two or three years, someone of similar talent will probably start considering other teams first.

I trust Holmgren will figure something out without having to sacrifice a former captain. It just looks bad on the organization to send guys to the minors that they 'overpaid' for at contact time.

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02-07-2008, 01:02 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I don't want Carter to leave Philly; I'd like him to be a career Flyer. I'll be extremely upset if they trade him.

I just don't think it sets a good precedent by burying guys in the minors. Gauthier got screwed, Hatcher might get screwed and the more guys that are sent to the minors, the less likely this team will attract vets.

Sure the Flyers signed some top end talent in the off season, but if they send Timonen to the minors in two or three years, someone of similar talent will probably start considering other teams first.

I trust Holmgren will figure something out without having to sacrifice a former captain. It just looks bad on the organization to send guys to the minors that they 'overpaid' for at contact time.
I dont disagree with you in theory. I just look at it as business. Fact of the matter is, if you show them the money they will come here. NJ did it with a few guys (Mogilny, Marshall, McGillis) I am sure someone will still sign there.

I actually think waiving Gauthier is worse than Hatcher. Gauthier is still in his prime.

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Old
02-07-2008, 01:05 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I don't want Carter to leave Philly; I'd like him to be a career Flyer. I'll be extremely upset if they trade him.

I just don't think it sets a good precedent by burying guys in the minors. Gauthier got screwed, Hatcher might get screwed and the more guys that are sent to the minors, the less likely this team will attract vets.

Sure the Flyers signed some top end talent in the off season, but if they send Timonen to the minors in two or three years, someone of similar talent will probably start considering other teams first.

I trust Holmgren will figure something out without having to sacrifice a former captain. It just looks bad on the organization to send guys to the minors that they 'overpaid' for at contact time.
What's more important to you? Keeping Carter or disrespecting an old dude that can't hack it anymore?

Keeping Carter should win that battle everytime. It doesn't matter how it looks, you have to keep Carter.

I don't see it as disrespect anyway. It sends a message that if you're not earning your money, you shouldn't be our problem. If an older player is going to sign here for big money, you better earn it.

Can they put Hatcher on unconditional waivers and when he clears, he becomes a free agent? It's maybe not that simple, but I think that's what happened to John Leclair.

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02-07-2008, 01:17 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
Can they put Hatcher on unconditional waivers and when he clears, he becomes a free agent? It's maybe not that simple, but I think that's what happened to John Leclair.
Only if Hatcher violates his contract, for example, if he gets waived and assigned to the Phantoms, but doesn't report.

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02-07-2008, 01:19 PM
  #65
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Only if Hatcher violates his contract, for example, if he gets waived and assigned to the Phantoms, but doesn't report.
Dang. Then waive him and see what happens anyway.

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02-07-2008, 01:24 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
What's more important to you? Keeping Carter or disrespecting an old dude that can't hack it anymore?

Keeping Carter should win that battle everytime. It doesn't matter how it looks, you have to keep Carter.

I don't see it as disrespect anyway. It sends a message that if you're not earning your money, you shouldn't be our problem. If an older player is going to sign here for big money, you better earn it.

Can they put Hatcher on unconditional waivers and when he clears, he becomes a free agent? It's maybe not that simple, but I think that's what happened to John Leclair.
The decisions the Flyers have made in the last couple years from the Rathje/Hatcher contracts through the Richards contract have me worried. The Rathje and Hatcher contracts have already proven to be mistakes. There's a problem if the Briere, Hartnell, Timonen or Richards contracts become mistakes as well. If management send Hatcher through waivers, maybe they'll do the same to Briere or whoever. They've already done it to Goat.

Yeah, it's a player's responsibility to live up to the contract they sign, but the carrots dangled in front of each of these signings were impossible to pass up. The management needs to take some responsibility as well.

Ultimately, I'm just concerned that there will be a black cloud over the Flyers that will have players look to other teams first. Maybe my concerns are irrelevant.

If keeping Carter means losing Hatcher to the Phantoms, then so be it, but I really hope that Holmgren can swindle something without having to waive Hatcher.

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02-07-2008, 03:25 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
The decisions the Flyers have made in the last couple years from the Rathje/Hatcher contracts through the Richards contract have me worried. The Rathje and Hatcher contracts have already proven to be mistakes. There's a problem if the Briere, Hartnell, Timonen or Richards contracts become mistakes as well. If management send Hatcher through waivers, maybe they'll do the same to Briere or whoever. They've already done it to Goat.

Yeah, it's a player's responsibility to live up to the contract they sign, but the carrots dangled in front of each of these signings were impossible to pass up. The management needs to take some responsibility as well.

Ultimately, I'm just concerned that there will be a black cloud over the Flyers that will have players look to other teams first. Maybe my concerns are irrelevant.

If keeping Carter means losing Hatcher to the Phantoms, then so be it, but I really hope that Holmgren can swindle something without having to waive Hatcher.
Management takes responsibility by admitting and ridding themselves of those mistakes. If waiving them is the only option, I'm fine with that.

As you said, the carrot dangled in front of these players is too good to pass up, and it will always be so. Players won't pass up millions of dollars because they might get waived when they start to suck.

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02-07-2008, 04:35 PM
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Management takes responsibility by admitting and ridding themselves of those mistakes. If waiving them is the only option, I'm fine with that.
I'd have no problem with it, either, if several other teams were also burying guys in the minors. Building a reputation of waiving multi-million dollar players will lead to multi-million dollar talent signing elsewhere.


So far the Flyers have only done this once. It's my hope that the management can find other solutions to the 'veteran who can't live up to his price tag' issue.


A hockey team is a business, after all, and constantly waiving 'mistakes' is bad business in my opinion.

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02-07-2008, 09:13 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I'd have no problem with it, either, if several other teams were also burying guys in the minors. Building a reputation of waiving multi-million dollar players will lead to multi-million dollar talent signing elsewhere.


So far the Flyers have only done this once. It's my hope that the management can find other solutions to the 'veteran who can't live up to his price tag' issue.


A hockey team is a business, after all, and constantly waiving 'mistakes' is bad business in my opinion.

I'm not sure I completely agree with you. Players want to play on a team that has a reputation for being consistently competitve--which the Flyers do have. If you don't want to get waived, the answer is simple: don't suck.

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02-08-2008, 12:40 AM
  #70
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I'm not sure I completely agree with you. Players want to play on a team that has a reputation for being consistently competitve--which the Flyers do have. If you don't want to get waived, the answer is simple: don't suck.
it's the salary cap that's forcing the hand of management to waive players; we've never seen this type of movement before. I believe that what happened with Goat should've been a last resort option (maybe it was). I don't think a player signs a contract thinking that he'll suck in the second, third and fourth years. It just happens sometimes.


The Flyers have built a reputation of being a competetive team, but I fear that they may start building a reputation of waiving 'mistakes.' Then a star player has to choose whether or not to join this team based on (a) will they be competitive? & (b) will they waive me if I can't compete at the level they expect me to? I don't want the Flyers to lose out on potential star free agents due to option (b).


Let me be clear, I don't think this is an issue for the Flyers yet. I just don't want the Flyers to participate in a management style that cuts loose underperformers through waivers when no one else is doing it.


As I mentioned in an earlier post, my concerns probably mean nothing.


I've been known to overanalyze things sometimes; consider this the first time I have voiced such thoughts here

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