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OK, folks, what do you think of this?

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Old
02-07-2008, 10:16 PM
  #1
Prussian_Blue
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OK, folks, what do you think of this?

Over on the Trade Rumors board, I've made two separate deals.

I've sent Jackman and Stempniak to Pittsburgh for Ryan Whitney and a first-round pick from the Penguins in either 2008 or 2009, two very deep drafts.

I've sent Backman to the Flyers for Jim Vandermeer and Vladimir Ruzicka.

Losing Stempniak hurts, but you have to give to get, and Whitney along with EJ gives the Blues a very nice core to build around on defense. Add in veterans like Brewer, McKee and Salvador (plus Vandermeer from the other deal) and up-and-coming kids like Woywitka and Polak, with Cole, Junland, Nikitin, Hellstrom, Fairchild etc. all waiting their turn, and the Blues defense looks pretty deep and solid for the better part of the next decade.

The Penguins' first-rounder gives the Blues either a second pick in the later half of the frist round in one of the next two drafts, or a trading chip to use to either move up or package for another impact player.

Vandermeer essentially replaces Walker's physical presence, and they're roughly the same age. Vandermeer is a pending UFA, but he can be re-signed if the Blues feel they need that veteran toughness in their third defense pairing.

Ruzicka gives the Blues a young player with upside at RW, a position where they're not all that deep. His presence on the roster would allow the Blues to move a guy like Hinote, or else he'd make a very nice addition to Peoria for another season.

Trading Stempniak also opens up another roster spot, which Ruzicka can fill for the rest of th season, but which he will have to compete for in camp with Oshie and Lemtyugov. This will, hopefully, bring out the best in all three of those players, and may the best player win that competition.

I think these are half-decent returns, and they leave the Blues in pretty good shape without significantly detracting from the goal of winning now. A player with upside has been brought in to fill every spot vacated by a traded player in the short term, and healthy compeition has been opened up for the long term, starting at next year's camp.

Your thoughts?

P_B


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Old
02-07-2008, 10:24 PM
  #2
Stealth JD
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Not a fan of Whitney....if you think Backman is soft, or Brewer is prone for bad decision making...Whitney is going to make you pull out your hair. Luckily he's still young and has more upside...but if I'm dealing Stempniak (which i'm definitely NOT opposed to) I'd prefer to get another winger in return (Stafford, anyone). How about Stafford + a 2nd for Jackman & Stemp?

The Philly deal...meh. It doesn't really excite me. For as much **** as Backman gets...the Blues seem to be a better team with him than without him. He may not hit, or put up a lot of points...but for whatever reason he seems to be a stablizing presence on the blueline. I wouldn't be opposed to keeping him for another season.

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02-07-2008, 10:35 PM
  #3
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Solid on a few levels:

1. Pittsburgh gets Stempniak. It just gives them more of a glut of forwards [which they don't need] while depleting their defense [which they do need - and I don't want to hear how fantastic Letang and Goligoski are/will be; they won't be fantastic enough in '08-09]; even if they sign Jackman, he's a downgrade from Whitney. They'd eventually regret that trade even if Stempniak scores 45 the next 2 seasons.

Whitney will get better, and will be worth every dollar of that contract shortly.

2. While Ruzicka has "boom or bust" written all over him and I don't expect much out of him, I look at the Flyers trade in conjunction with the Penguins trade; we deal Backman and get Whitney ... so we just have to replace Jackman - which I think we can do. Vandermeer walks at the end of the season; he does nothing for me.

3. More importantly: this legitimately opens up a forward spot for Berglund and Lemtyugov to grab. As it is, Oshie has a spot all but guaranteed going into '08-09 and Berglund is hoping to get a shot at one; this gives both a spot and the chance to gain valuable NHL experience.

We shed $800,000 in salary cap space [I prefer to think of this as either Ryan Johnson's replacement or RJ on a 1-year deal] and dramatically upgrade on the blueline while officially starting the new era in St. Louis with the debut of some great talent.


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Old
02-07-2008, 10:46 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
I've sent Jackman and Stempniak to Pittsburgh for Ryan Whitney and a first-round pick from the Penguins in either 2008 or 2009, two very deep drafts.
I don't like this trade.
I like Whitney, but IMO we can get a better D man with our 1st pick this year(IMO Whitney would rank between Del Zotto and Tuebert in this years draft). We look to be picking around #10 this year and that should put us in the mix for Bogosian/Del Zotto/Myers or give us a good enough pick to move up for Pietrangelo or Doughty. I take any one of those D men over Whtney without thinking twice.

I know the big prize in this trade was the 1st round pick, but IMO we can get that for Jackman anyway without including Stempy in the deal.

I would just as soon keep Stempy and make the move Jackman for a 1st.

I'd then draft a D man with our 1st pick(I really like Del Zotto but if we can nab Pietrangelo or Doughty we have to do it) and one of the remaining PF prospects(Neimz or Colborne) with our 2nd pick.



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I've sent Backman to the Flyers for Jim Vandermeer and Vladimir Ruzicka.
I hate this trade.

1) Vlad Ruzicka isn't Philly's to trade as he plays for Pheonix.
The Ruzicka you acquired was Stefan Ruzicka, and I'm not overly high on him(he's undersized and not an overly good skater).

2) I have absolutely no interest in Jim Vandermeer. He is exactly the kind of D man that this team needs to be eliminating from it's ranks.

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Old
02-08-2008, 06:19 AM
  #5
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On the 1st trade...excellent work

It's true Whitney has struggled this year and has had some questions raised about his ability to become the top defenseman he's supposed to be. However, if Whitney wasn't struggling a bit, there's no way a guy like him becomes available. He's 24, considered to be a top pairing guy to be, has actual offensive upside, and has some size to him. If he's playing like a number 1 defenseman now...why would Pittsburgh want to move him. While he's by no means as physical as he should be, that doesn't become an issue if he can break things up in other ways in the defensive zone and actually puts up points. People don't dislike Backman just because he's soft, we dislike him because he contributes nothing. In my opinion this deal caught the Penguins selling low.

As far as losing Stempniak goes, I have 2 words for that...Boo Hoo. The last 2 seasons he was one of our only offensive threats because we had no one else (especially after the trade deadlines). This year with him not being on the powerplay or a regular top 6er, he's totally pedestrian. Looking at wing over the next few years (Boyes, Oshie, Kariya, Perron, and even Backes has passed him)...he's not going to be a top 6er here. I doubt he ever eclipses 55 points. Expendable.

As far as the 1st round pick goes...awesome. Either we get a late rounder this year and get a shot at David Toews, or we get a 1st next year which we can flip at the deadline to help our playoff march.

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02-08-2008, 06:40 AM
  #6
Prussian_Blue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
I don't like this trade.

I like Whitney, but IMO we can get a better D man with our 1st pick this year(IMO Whitney would rank between Del Zotto and Tuebert in this years draft). We look to be picking around #10 this year and that should put us in the mix for Bogosian/Del Zotto/Myers or give us a good enough pick to move up for Pietrangelo or Doughty. I take any one of those D men over Whtney without thinking twice.
But that's the beauty of this move, kimzey... the Blues still have that pick.

I've added Whitney to replace Jackman, and Whitney brings more size, more youth, and lots more offensive upside. And the Blues still have their first-round pick this year, which I'd agree that they should look to use on a Pietrangelo or a Bogosian or a Luke Schenn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
I know the big prize in this trade was the 1st round pick, but IMO we can get that for Jackman anyway without including Stempy in the deal.

I would just as soon keep Stempy and make the move Jackman for a 1st.

I'd then draft a D man with our 1st pick (I really like Del Zotto but if we can nab Pietrangelo or Doughty we have to do it) and one of the remaining PF prospects (Neimz or Colborne) with our 2nd pick.
You might be right, but I haven't had much luck in fishing for a first-rounder with only Jackman as the bait. Adding Stempniak to that deal got a couple of hits right away, and allowed me to get Whitney and the first-rounder instead of having to settle for Goligoski, whom I'm not particularly high on.

I like your strategy for the use of the two first-round picks, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
I hate this trade.

1) Vlad Ruzicka isn't Philly's to trade as he plays for Pheonix.

The Ruzicka you acquired was Stefan Ruzicka, and I'm not overly high on him (he's undersized and not an overly good skater).

2) I have absolutely no interest in Jim Vandermeer. He is exactly the kind of D man that this team needs to be eliminating from it's ranks.
1). Good catch on Ruzicka. I was thinking of the great Czech star.

Stefan Ruzicka is listed at something like six feet and 190 pounds, which isn't all that small, and skating can be worked on. I like his offensive upside, and he has NHL experience, so slotting him into the lineup as a short-term replacement for Stempniak makes sense, and doesn't deplete Peoria's roster of a needed player -- a Lemtyugov or a Marty Kariya -- at a time when they need everything they can get for their own playoff run.

2). Vandermeer doesn't exactly have me turning handsprings, either... but he's a replacement for Walker, allowing the Blues to deal Walker for whatever they can get for him, and I think they can replace Backman from within (see "Woywitka, Jeff"). Vandermeer at least has a little more offensive upside than Walker, and actually has a few career NHL goals...

I was also offered Lasse Kukkonen, and seriously thought about taking him instead of Vandermeer, but Vandermeer seemed to offer more of what the Blues needed to replace Walker's physical presence. Kukkonen would have been more of a straight-up replacement for Backman, and as I said, I think they already have that in Woywitka.

P_B


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Old
02-08-2008, 07:13 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
But that's the beauty of this move, kimzey... the Blues still have that pick.

I've added Whitney to replace Jackman, and Whitney brings more size, more youth, and lots more offensive upside. And the Blues still have their first-round pick this year, which I'd agree that they should look to use on a Pietrangelo or a Bogosian or a Luke Schenn.

The thing is; if we already have Whitney as the #2 D man the player to go after then becomes Kyle Beach.

As I've been saying for a while now; the Blues are at the points where they need to focus on stream-lining the pipeline. If we get Whitney we would have a very clear top 4 Defense(EJ, Brew, McKee and Whitney) for at least the next 3 years; and plenty of options for the 3rd pairing also(Cole, Polak, Woywitka, Wagner, Hellstrom, Salvy). IMO the Blues are at the point where we need to make a real comitment towards the last spot in our top 4. That makes it a choice between a guy like Whitney, a FA like Redden/Boyle/Cambell or one of the top D men in this years draft. Personally, I MUCH prefer the top D men in this years draft. Those kids all have the potential to be a legit Co #1 as opposed to being a clear #2.

If we brought Whitney on board and made the comitment towards him as the #2 D man our focus in the Draft would be to find the last peice to our top 6 forwards; and that would make Beach the clear choice for us on Draft day. Again, it's all about balancing and streamlining our lineup at this point.

Quote:
You might be right, but I haven't had much luck in fishing for a first-rounder with only Jackman as the bait. Adding Stempniak to that deal got a couple of hits right away, and allowed me to get Whitney and the first-rounder instead of having to settle for Goligoski, whom I'm not particularly high on.
The TR board doesn't typically work like the real world.
Even so, IMO you're settling far to easy. When push comes to shove, I have no doubt that at least 3 teams will cough up a 1st round pick for Jackman's services. Try reminding them again that Brendan Witt warranted a 1st round pick 3 years ago and see if their returns don't go up.



Quote:
1). Good catch on Ruzicka. I was thinking of the great Czech star.

Stefan Ruzicka is listed at something like six feet and 190 pounds, which isn't all that small, and skating can be worked on. I like his offensive upside, and he has NHL experience, so slotting him into the lineup as a short-term replacement for Stempniak makes sense, and doesn't deplete Peoria's roster of a needed player -- a Lemtyugov or a Marty Kariya -- at a time when they need everything they can get for their own playoff run.

1) Stempy's all-around game is head and Shoulders above Ruzicka's offensive potential.

2) Stempy is fully capable of playing on one of the top 2 lines. Nothing I've seen from Ruzicka to this point leads me to believe that he is capable of that.

In that sense; I don't see Ruzicka as a "short term replacement" for Stempy in the slightest. Stempy is a better overall player, is far more proven in the NHL and is less than 1 year removed from 27 goals. I would much rather hold on to Stempy than bring in Ruzicka, even if we would end up with Whitney out of the deal.


Quote:
2). Vandermeer doesn't exactly have me turning handsprings, either... but he's a replacement for Walker, allowing the Blues to deal Walker for whatever they can get for him, and I think they can replace Backman from within (see "Woywitka, Jeff"). Vandermeer at least has a little more offensive upside than Walker, and actually has a few career NHL goals...
1) We already have 3 players in Peoria who can take over as our #7 D man in Wagner, Polak and Woywitka.

2) With the kind of lineup we have there should be no need to replace Walker's toughness. Relying on Walker and King to be the only "tough guys" on this team is a huge part of the problem we've been facing of late. The rest of the team needs to step up and make Walker's job and expendable one. We need to eliminate Walkers role and replace it with a role for a skill player.

Quote:
I was also offered Lasse Kukkonen, and seriously thought about taking him instead of Vandermeer, but Vandermeer seemed to offer more of what the Blues needed to replace Walker's physical presence. Kukkonen would have been more of a straight-up replacement for Backman, and as I said, I think they already have that in Woywitka.

I have no interest in him either.
The only things on Philly's entire roster that is of interest to me is their number of mid-level wingers. If I were to make a deal sending Backman to Philly, I want either somebody coming back our way that can legitimatly round out a line with Stempy or a moderately high-end Draft pick. There's really not much else there that would get my attention(unless they have a sudden burst of insanity and put JVR on the block).

Barring that, I hold on to Backman and see who else comes calling.

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02-08-2008, 10:44 AM
  #8
Carl Racki
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Stempniak's lack of production this year comes from his lack of playing with good players, period...trading him is a big mistake. He is exactly the kind of player the Blues have been short of in the past and it ended up costing them then, too. He is quick, skilled, and effective in transition, and will score 35 goals consistently once this roster gets stabilized with the talent on the horizon. The rest of em, blah...the only moves I would make are to trade whichever of the three D (Salvy, Jax, Backman) get you the most youngsters/draft picks, and call it a day.

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02-08-2008, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Carl Racki View Post
Stempniak's lack of production this year comes from his lack of playing with good players, period...trading him is a big mistake. He is exactly the kind of player the Blues have been short of in the past and it ended up costing them then, too. He is quick, skilled, and effective in transition, and will score 35 goals consistently once this roster gets stabilized with the talent on the horizon. The rest of em, blah...the only moves I would make are to trade whichever of the three D (Salvy, Jax, Backman) get you the most youngsters/draft picks, and call it a day.
Until Stempniak shows he can reach that milestone of 35 goals, I think he is fair game. Just so we are on the same page, he has a total of 10 in 52 games this season. Granted that could have something to do with the line he was on earlier this year.

He needs to up his game!


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02-08-2008, 12:58 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsb6wc22 View Post
Until Stempniak shows he can reach that milestone of 35 goals, I think he is fair game. Just so we are on the same page, he has a total of 10 in 52 games this season. Granted that could have something to do with the line he was on earlier this year.

However, If Murray keeps him with Andy Mac and Perron, their would be no excuse for him not scoring. He needs to up his game!
Stempniak has been playing with McClement and King the past few games. Boyes has been on a line with AMac and Perron which has shown great chemistry. That being said thats not exactly putting Stemp in a position to succeed. I'll give him till next year when they put him with a playmaker or another scoring threat say Berglund or Oshie.

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02-08-2008, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by funktasticblues93 View Post
Stempniak has been playing with McClement and King the past few games. Boyes has been on a line with AMac and Perron which has shown great chemistry. That being said thats not exactly putting Stemp in a position to succeed. I'll give him till next year when they put him with a playmaker or another scoring threat say Berglund or Oshie.
Thank you for correcting me, I got my lines mixed up, however with that being said If the boyes,Amac,perron line has great chemistry, then why wouldn't a boyes, Amac, stempniak have good chemistry. I just think stempniak has been hyped a little too much. I am sure he has had every opportunity to be a second-liner, and yet here we are discussing what should be done with him.

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02-08-2008, 02:31 PM
  #12
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Trust me. You're not going to want to resign Vandermeer.

Honestly, I think you'd be getting too little for Backman in that trade involving Ruzicka and Vandy. Vandermeer is horrible and Ruzicka is nothing special and is going to have a hard time cracking Philly team for a while, I think.

I don't know too much about Backman, but I do think a a trade like:

TO PHI: Backman
TO STL: Potulny and Kukkonen

...would be better for you folks. I'd think you'd want some semblance of D coming back and your team has enough in the pipeline so much that Ruzicka probably would be scratching for a 4th line spot on your team next year, if that. (Of course, that's assuming you guys pretty much keep your current roster set and don't trade off much over the offseason). Kukkonen is an amazing shot blocker, and therein lies his value. We love the guy, but he never plays because he's in Stevens' doghouse for whatever reason.

If you really want Vandermeer, you can have him for free.

-------------------------


Secondly, I'm a big Stemp supporter, but I don't think you guys should be expecting him to be scoring 35+ at this point in his career. It's what...his third year in the NHL? If you guys are expecting him to be a consistent 30+ goal scorer a la Gagne (which I believe he has the potential to be) I wouldn't get too strung up on his low production this early. Gags didn't crack the low 30s until his third full season, and Stemp only played around 50 games his first year.

He may very well be like him, but I'd be expecting somewhere in the range of 17-25 goals on the season from Stempniak, in the system he's in. He's underproducing that assessment a little this year, but he's not far off and could easily hit it if he gets hot.

Do you guys just see his 27 goal output last year and expect because he's young that the natural response is he should be that much better the next year? He played on the top two lines last year (to the best of my knowledge) with a great playmaking center in Doug Weight...and this year he isn't. I think he overproduced last year for whatever reason, maybe his talent belying his youth or something, and I see 25 goals being a very good expectation for him at the beginning of this year.

I feel Boyes has taken his spot in the overall pecking order and his (Stemp's) new wingers aren't helping him much, either. At this point, I think Boyes' production beats that of what Stemp's would have been on that line.

Stemp's good, Boyes is better, and you don't have two Kariyas, basically. (No, Martin Kariya doesn't count ) It's logical Stemp's production would degress from last year given the circumstances. Yes, he is underperforming this year, but I don't think not hitting 35 should be grounds for a disappointment. I would be perfectly happy with him hitting 20.

I see the Flyers' Carter as very much in Stempniak's situation. I see them as pretty even, they have the same amount of NHL experience and are both snipers and are both playing on the third line this year...and Carter's production this year isn't even at 20 goals yet (I think he has 17). He might end up with 25 if he's lucky. I don't see it as a disappointment that he isn't going to hit 35 even though I think he very well could on a higher line, but at the same time, I think Richards and Briere are better centers and would do better, production wise, than if Carter was in their spot.

It'll be really hard to have both Boyes and Stemp producing at the same 30 goal clip without having two good playmaking centers with each of them. Kariya's been a boon to Boyes...and maybe Andy Mac might be the guy that could help Stemp, but he's not playing with him right now, I don't think.

Stemp should be on the second line with Andy Mac, but it's hard to score and outperform someone who's already there (Perron) when you're on a plugging line without a playmaker.

I understand you guys are mad that he only has 10 goals right now. I'm just saying be mad he doesn't have 20, not mad because he doesn't have 35. With Boyes on the top line, Stemp isn't going to be seeing much of Kariya's snazzy passes. Stempniak is not going to be that 30 goal scorer this year not because he can't do it, but because he's not playing with anyone and really hasn't all year. Weight regressed this year and so did Stemp early on as a result. Stemp got moved down and then Weight got traded for Andy Mac (who got injured early). Stemp and Andy had no time to gel and Stemp got moved down, where he's playing as well as you could expect a third-liner to.


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02-08-2008, 04:34 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gesthar View Post
Trust me. You're not going to want to resign Vandermeer.

Honestly, I think you'd be getting too little for Backman in that trade involving Ruzicka and Vandy. Vandermeer is horrible and Ruzicka is nothing special and is going to have a hard time cracking Philly team for a while, I think.

I don't know too much about Backman, but I do think a a trade like:

TO PHI: Backman
TO STL: Potulny and Kukkonen

...would be better for you folks. I'd think you'd want some semblance of D coming back and your team has enough in the pipeline so much that Ruzicka probably would be scratching for a 4th line spot on your team next year, if that. (Of course, that's assuming you guys pretty much keep your current roster set and don't trade off much over the offseason). Kukkonen is an amazing shot blocker, and therein lies his value. We love the guy, but he never plays because he's in Stevens' doghouse for whatever reason.

If you really want Vandermeer, you can have him for free.

-------------------------


Secondly, I'm a big Stemp supporter, but I don't think you guys should be expecting him to be scoring 35+ at this point in his career. It's what...his third year in the NHL? If you guys are expecting him to be a consistent 30+ goal scorer a la Gagne (which I believe he has the potential to be) I wouldn't get too strung up on his low production this early. Gags didn't crack the low 30s until his third full season, and Stemp only played around 50 games his first year.

He may very well be like him, but I'd be expecting somewhere in the range of 17-25 goals on the season from Stempniak, in the system he's in. He's underproducing that assessment a little this year, but he's not far off and could easily hit it if he gets hot.

Do you guys just see his 27 goal output last year and expect because he's young that the natural response is he should be that much better the next year? He played on the top two lines last year (to the best of my knowledge) with a great playmaking center in Doug Weight...and this year he isn't. I think he overproduced last year for whatever reason, maybe his talent belying his youth or something, and I see 25 goals being a very good expectation for him at the beginning of this year.

I feel Boyes has taken his spot in the overall pecking order and his (Stemp's) new wingers aren't helping him much, either. At this point, I think Boyes' production beats that of what Stemp's would have been on that line.

Stemp's good, Boyes is better, and you don't have two Kariyas, basically. (No, Martin Kariya doesn't count ) It's logical Stemp's production would degress from last year given the circumstances. Yes, he is underperforming this year, but I don't think not hitting 35 should be grounds for a disappointment. I would be perfectly happy with him hitting 20.

I see the Flyers' Carter as very much in Stempniak's situation. I see them as pretty even, they have the same amount of NHL experience and are both snipers and are both playing on the third line this year...and Carter's production this year isn't even at 20 goals yet (I think he has 17). He might end up with 25 if he's lucky. I don't see it as a disappointment that he isn't going to hit 35 even though I think he very well could on a higher line, but at the same time, I think Richards and Briere are better centers and would do better, production wise, than if Carter was in their spot.

It'll be really hard to have both Boyes and Stemp producing at the same 30 goal clip without having two good playmaking centers with each of them. Kariya's been a boon to Boyes...and maybe Andy Mac might be the guy that could help Stemp, but he's not playing with him right now, I don't think.

Stemp should be on the second line with Andy Mac, but it's hard to score and outperform someone who's already there (Perron) when you're on a plugging line without a playmaker.

I understand you guys are mad that he only has 10 goals right now. I'm just saying be mad he doesn't have 20, not mad because he doesn't have 35. With Boyes on the top line, Stemp isn't going to be seeing much of Kariya's snazzy passes. Stempniak is not going to be that 30 goal scorer this year not because he can't do it, but because he's not playing with anyone and really hasn't all year. Weight regressed this year and so did Stemp early on as a result. Stemp got moved down and then Weight got traded for Andy Mac (who got injured early). Stemp and Andy had no time to gel and Stemp got moved down, where he's playing as well as you could expect a third-liner to.
Aw, come on....no love for Marty?

2 Kariyas are better than one!

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02-08-2008, 05:28 PM
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Look at the Boyes trade from last season as my #1 reason to not trade Stempniak.

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02-08-2008, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gesthar View Post
Trust me. You're not going to want to resign Vandermeer.

Honestly, I think you'd be getting too little for Backman in that trade involving Ruzicka and Vandy. Vandermeer is horrible and Ruzicka is nothing special and is going to have a hard time cracking Philly team for a while, I think.

I don't know too much about Backman, but I do think a a trade like:

TO PHI: Backman
TO STL: Potulny and Kukkonen

...would be better for you folks. I'd think you'd want some semblance of D coming back and your team has enough in the pipeline so much that Ruzicka probably would be scratching for a 4th line spot on your team next year, if that. (Of course, that's assuming you guys pretty much keep your current roster set and don't trade off much over the offseason). Kukkonen is an amazing shot blocker, and therein lies his value. We love the guy, but he never plays because he's in Stevens' doghouse for whatever reason.
Absolutely not.
Unless we are able to turn Jackman AND Backman into 1 legit PPQB(and I'm not talking about a Tarnstrom type) we have no need for any more D men. We have 3 NHL ready D men ready to go in Peoria(Woywitka, Wagner and Polak) and need to make room for them.


Again; the only thing I'd want off the Philly roster is one of your mid-level wingers to go next to stempniak(Upshall, Knuble, Lupul or Kappanen). Barring that, make your package around picks.

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02-08-2008, 11:11 PM
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Of course, but I doubt you'd be getting them...outside of maybe Upshall straight up, for Backman. Kapanen isn't going aywhere and I don't think you guys want him...he's old and plans to finish his career in Philly.

Same thing, if we're trading one of our mid-level guys we're gonna want some young D in return. Catch-22.

Oh well.

Now if you folks are intent on moving Jackman (as it seems the Blues are, at least on HF)....what would it take?

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02-09-2008, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBleeder View Post
Look at the Boyes trade from last season as my #1 reason to not trade Stempniak.
I couldn't have said it better.

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02-09-2008, 08:07 AM
  #18
Tender Rip
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
I've sent Jackman and Stempniak to Pittsburgh for Ryan Whitney and a first-round pick from the Penguins in either 2008 or 2009, two very deep drafts.

Losing Stempniak hurts, but you have to give to get, and Whitney along with EJ gives the Blues a very nice core to build around on defense. Add in veterans like Brewer, McKee and Salvador (plus Vandermeer from the other deal) and up-and-coming kids like Woywitka and Polak, with Cole, Junland, Nikitin, Hellstrom, Fairchild etc. all waiting their turn, and the Blues defense looks pretty deep and solid for the better part of the next decade.

The Penguins' first-rounder gives the Blues either a second pick in the later half of the frist round in one of the next two drafts, or a trading chip to use to either move up or package for another impact player.

I like the fact that you reason why this is good for the Blues. Otherwise I might have been completely in the dark as to what you were on about here .

No, seriously. I get that we would have to overpay in order to get Jackman at the deadline. Surely someone else are going to, so why settle for less from us, right? However Pens aren't going to be a genuine contender either way this season, and as such we won't be one of the teams overpaying. Its just not going to happen.

Morever you're resigned to let go of Jackman anyway whereas we have a guy with a high ceiling in Whitney signed on to what is a manageable long term contract considering his present offensive production and the strong possibility of improved defence. A straight swap between the two might benefit us right now, especially because Letang is playing better right now, and will be sizeably better, but as far as asset management goes the return just isn't good enough for Whitney. If we had that scoring winger for Sidney and Letang was one year further up the development ladder, Jackman could be the missing piece. But right now that is not so.

That apart - I don't know your roster squad well enough to comment on Stempniak leaving being something that'd really hurt as much as you say (I guess its probably because you're even thinner on the wings than we are), but I do know that he isn't good enough to make any kind of positive difference on the Penguins, and you're sure as ***** not going to get a first for him .

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