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Orr and Struds just don't cut it

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Old
02-08-2008, 11:03 AM
  #26
Dagoon44
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I stopped caring about this thread when you called the hockey game a hockey match. Go watch the Jovo cup or something

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02-08-2008, 11:06 AM
  #27
Chris 84
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
I stopped caring about this thread when you called the hockey game a hockey match. Go watch the Jovo cup or something
Sorry if they don't say match in North America, guys from Europe can hardly be expected to say everything the way you're used to US commentators saying them.

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02-08-2008, 11:29 AM
  #28
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Chris i was just kidding didn't mean it personal

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02-08-2008, 11:40 AM
  #29
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as i said before, get a guy to play with mara. strudwick is a useless slow ass P.O.S. he's like rich pilon only worse. he's wayyyyy to slow, i'm glad finally the media has noticed him. i don't give a rats ass about how he makes the team tougher, and how he's well liked. bullcrap. it's a business, and in order to succeed in the business you need the proper personnel. strudwick doesn't cut it, he's a spare part. and i say again, he's like an old dog, take him out back and shoot him already.

regarding orr, i don't mind him being played every now and then but not every game. against the flyers, devils, islanders, no doubt he should play, but against teams like a carolina, or teams with speed, he should be scratched.

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02-08-2008, 11:53 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Chris 84 View Post
Why does no-one get that I'm not blaming Orr or Strudwick for the results? I'm saying we need a change in personnel. Taking out a player who has the potential to play very well is stupid, so we should take out players who don't have that ability.
Hossa and Malik do, Strudwick and Orr don't.
No, you're still totally wrong. Why not replace Lundquist because we're just not getting any offensive production from his position?

Orr is doing his job, and is often doing a job that really should be done by other people but still does a pretty good job. Leave him alone. He doesn't have the ability of a 1st line player because thats not what he is. He's doing a job no one else on the team is capable of doing effectively.

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02-08-2008, 11:56 AM
  #31
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regarding orr, i don't mind him being played every now and then but not every game. against the flyers, devils, islanders, no doubt he should play, but against teams like a carolina, or teams with speed, he should be scratched.
Of course, seeing as Carolina has actually been our most contentious rival this year, no. He should play every game against teams that have enforcers & tough players playing for sure, and probably against most other teams too. Well, almost every team dresses an enforcer consistently anyway, except maybe Montreal and Florida in our conf..

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02-08-2008, 12:04 PM
  #32
Chris 84
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Chris i was just kidding didn't mean it personal
It's cool man, total over-reaction my bad

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02-08-2008, 12:08 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Merlin401 View Post
No, you're still totally wrong. Why not replace Lundquist because we're just not getting any offensive production from his position?

Orr is doing his job, and is often doing a job that really should be done by other people but still does a pretty good job. Leave him alone. He doesn't have the ability of a 1st line player because thats not what he is. He's doing a job no one else on the team is capable of doing effectively.
I'm not saying replace Orr cause he brings no offense. Betts brings no offense but I'd never dream of replacing him. I'm saying replace Orr cause imo we have better options.

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02-08-2008, 12:14 PM
  #34
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Like Mike Babcock says, you can't afford to have a guy who's just an enforcer on the team anymore. We'd be softer than Detroit? The top team in the league's top PIMS man is Lilja with 67. Even if you don't take Orr into account, Hollweg and Avery have much more PIMS. Why do they not need enforcers but we do? Admittedly Babcock has Downey to use if necessary but he doesn't play him night in night out because enforcers aren't needed night in night out
How many Stanley Cups has Mike Babcock won? How many championships has he coached?

Zero.

So, you're stating that because Detroit is the top team in the NHL right now and the top PIMS man ONLY has 67, that they win because they don't play an enforcer. I guess we'll see how important this is after the playoffs are done.

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02-08-2008, 12:24 PM
  #35
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How many Stanley Cups has Mike Babcock won? How many championships has he coached?

Zero.
That reminds me of the fans who denigrated Bourque before he finally won in Colorado. Not everything can be judged by who wins the Cup.


Quote:
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So, you're stating that because Detroit is the top team in the NHL right now and the top PIMS man ONLY has 67, that they win because they don't play an enforcer. I guess we'll see how important this is after the playoffs are done.
Enforcers tend to no longer dress as often as they once did in the Playoffs. Years ago, they were critical in the Cup run. Those days are gone. Anaheim was an exception last year and perhaps they will swing the pendulum back but I doubt it.

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02-08-2008, 12:40 PM
  #36
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Orr/Struds=small potatoes

If we were winning this thread would never see the light of day.

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02-08-2008, 01:22 PM
  #37
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Colton Orr is a good heavy-weight enforcer. He impressed me in his fight with George Parros last night.

There are certainly quite a few teams that could use a guy like Orr to suit-up for 65 to 75 games and skate for an average of six to eight minutes when he does.

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02-08-2008, 01:23 PM
  #38
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Funny how people bring up ORR's +/- .......

Not that I have anything against Drury but look at his +/-

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02-08-2008, 01:45 PM
  #39
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maybe what they could do is roll 4 lines like they normally do but use orr on every other shift, and put jagr or another RW on his spot to give him/them extra ice time. maybe that might help jagr escape the "giants" back there on defense, like a chara, gill, witt, or any other defenseman he has trouble with. speaking of matching lines, why was renney not helping his top line out last night by having jagr go against pronger for the most part, jagr's in a slump, and we were the home team and got the last change, he should have taken advantage of that

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02-08-2008, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris 84 View Post
I'm not saying replace Orr cause he brings no offense. Betts brings no offense but I'd never dream of replacing him. I'm saying replace Orr cause imo we have better options.
We have better options than Orr to be our enforcer? Where? Mitch Fritz? I think your mistakenly comparing Orrs spot as 1 of 12 forwards to his role as a heavyweight enforcer. Do we have guys who could play better hockey in that 12th forward spot? Of course. Do we have someone who could perform Orrs role better than Colton, absolutely not. Wheter or not you view the enforcer role as necessary is a seperate issue, but if we are going to keep dressing an enforcer Colton Orr is a very good one.

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02-08-2008, 03:01 PM
  #41
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The problem is...

that Orr plays 8+ minutes per game, and in all likelihood, that number should be closer to 4-5. I'm sure, or at least I think I'm sure, that people would be talking a lot less about Orr if he played less minutes. He's a little more than a goon, and thus should be playing a little more than the 3 or so minutes afforded goons.

Is there a better option? That's debateable. If one believes that this team doesn't need an enforcer, then there are better options. And that's the debate, and I'm sure there are good arguments on both sides to be made.

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02-08-2008, 03:04 PM
  #42
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red...

Drury's +/- is atrocious. One part of the comparison that makes it a bit unfair is the goals scored against with the open net, as that's hardly a reflection of one's defensive abilities. But personally, I have no explanation for his +/-. I do believe, or wouldn't be surprised, if he has gone against top lines for more minutes than the HBO line, but Prucha doesn't have the minus that Drury has and he played with Drury extensively. It's a number that sits out there and makes you scratch your head. Of course it may not be indicative of Drury's defense since we need to talk about the work as a unit of five, but the number does stick out like a sore thumb.

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02-08-2008, 03:14 PM
  #43
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Since Struds is a topic in this thread I figured I would bring this up here. Where has he been the past bunch of games? I am not talking about his play, I'm talking about his dropping the mitts to stick up for his teammates. We have had some very physical games in the past 10 and Strudwick hasn't been near the rough stuff. Which is very uncharacteristic of him. A big reason he is in there is for his "sandpaper", he needs to get in the mix a bit more. Is he nursing a hand injury?

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02-08-2008, 03:54 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by mergnemi View Post
maybe what they could do is roll 4 lines like they normally do but use orr on every other shift, and put jagr or another RW on his spot to give him/them extra ice time. maybe that might help jagr escape the "giants" back there on defense, like a chara, gill, witt, or any other defenseman he has trouble with. speaking of matching lines, why was renney not helping his top line out last night by having jagr go against pronger for the most part, jagr's in a slump, and we were the home team and got the last change, he should have taken advantage of that
Are you really saying that you want to double-shift the worst player on the team or am I misreading this? I apologize in advance if I have misread your post.

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Old
02-09-2008, 09:54 AM
  #45
Chris 84
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Orr/Struds=small potatoes

If we were winning this thread would never see the light of day.
Of course not. If we were winning every game then why would we want to change anything? But we're not.

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Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
We have better options than Orr to be our enforcer? Where? Mitch Fritz? I think your mistakenly comparing Orrs spot as 1 of 12 forwards to his role as a heavyweight enforcer. Do we have guys who could play better hockey in that 12th forward spot? Of course. Do we have someone who could perform Orrs role better than Colton, absolutely not. Wheter or not you view the enforcer role as necessary is a seperate issue, but if we are going to keep dressing an enforcer Colton Orr is a very good one.
I agree. If we want to dress an enforcer then dress Orr. Personally though I don't want to dress an enforcer and that's the point i'm making.

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02-09-2008, 10:17 AM
  #46
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Since the lockout: Laraque's PIMs: 233. Jagr's PIMs: 194. Pretty close. Yes i'm exaggerating but over 3 years thats not much difference for the leagues best fighter and the player who has played the most NHL games without a fight ever.

Orr's -14 is because he's being USED as a checking line but has 4th line abilities. If you played any 4th line against top lines they'd be that or way worse. Last year the Moen-Niedermayer-Pahlsson line was all -8 (or there about) despite scoring plenty of goals. Of course they're going to be on for goals against OCCASSIONALLY. They are still doing their job very well.
aint Pahlsson a ufa this summer?? if so he is one player sather must target, he dont score much but does the little things. good on faceoffs and PK.

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02-09-2008, 08:39 PM
  #47
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Without Orr the Rangers would have been in serious trouble today. His response to Cote verbally and subsequent beatdown of SpeedBag nullified the Flyers attempt to intimidate the Rangers. Without Orr in the lineup, a guy like Cote would have been pounding someone like Roszival all day.

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