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What is wrong with the this year's Flames?

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Old
02-17-2008, 10:29 PM
  #1
scoringmachine
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What is wrong with the this year's Flames?

This years team has a strange way of playing. Last years team we knew could win at home and not on the road then barely made the playoffs. This years team I do not know how to describe them.

In October they played well. November they could not win games and ended out of the playoff race. Decemeber they played their best hockey to go from almost being last in the NW Conference in the playoff race. In January they had trouble winning two games in a row and now in February they Only won two game that was against the Edmonton Oilers and the San Jose Sharks other than that has not been able to win since What do you think is wrong with the Flames.

Like my other threads I wanted to know who we can trade for to help the team. This time I would like to know what is wrong with this team and with the players that we do have what do you think Keenan should do to help the team play better and win games.

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02-17-2008, 10:53 PM
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Phaneufed
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It's more like

What is wrong with the Game 7 vs. Anaheim in the 06 playoffs and onwards Flames


Last edited by Phaneufed: 02-17-2008 at 11:20 PM.
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02-17-2008, 11:15 PM
  #3
Grannys
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Originally Posted by Phaneufed View Post
It's more like

What is wrong with Game 7 vs. Anaheim in the 06 playoffs and onwards Flames
Seriously! I have been worried with this team for the last 2 seasons. Even when the going is good for a few games and Im worried cause I can feel that it wont last...

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Old
02-18-2008, 01:55 AM
  #4
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it seems like they talk about nothing but good starts, and when they finally do have one it only lasts about 10 minutes and as soon as the opposition pours anything on it seems like they just cant handle it.. its probably the most frustrating thing in the world because i love them so much and i want to see them do well in the worst way... it just seems sometimes they dont have what it takes to win

im also thinking that sutter is going to have a closed door meeting with just iginla.. something is mentally wrong with this team

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02-18-2008, 11:52 AM
  #5
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You have to many guys who have listened to their own hype. Calgary seems to me to have to many guys who play for themselves and not the team IMO.

Now that you have your main players signed things may turn around and the team gel together, but for the last while I think it has been more about guys playing for the big contract and internal competition to prove where they belong in terms of importance to the team...ego's flourishing.

I don't think hiring Keenan has helped either. Husselius struggles again once he shows up, and Keenan has always messed with the heads of his goalies.

Your main guys have to stop thinking about their contracts, and listening to the hype around them and start playing for eachother more..to many guys playing for contracts..to much individual play trying to do to much...

To much ego on this team, from the bench out is the problem IMO. On paper all the parts are there for a very good team but some humility is in order.

Just an Oiler fans evaluation of your team...


Last edited by JoeHockey: 02-18-2008 at 12:01 PM.
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02-18-2008, 12:37 PM
  #6
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Something is definetly up with Iginla. Really sucks that he is dropping in his production.

But I dont think that is what is messing up the team right now. Of course if Iginla would score 1-2 more goals a game the score would be a lot different. But the team is in some major funk.

Things looked bad in the beginning of the season and I blamed Keenan, then things got a little better and I though maybe they just needed time to adjust to his style, and now again I feel its maybe Keenan. Well maybe Keenan is getting to Kipper but this team is just as bad now as it was last season and the one before that. There hasnt been too many moments in the last 2.5 seasons Ive felt "this will be a killer game with Flames on top" when I sit down to watch a game. The LA game should of been like that. Something big needs to happen to shake this team... I just hope that happens soon. This team has all the right pieces to build a monster team...

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02-18-2008, 01:26 PM
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The problem is the same as it's been since Game 7 against Anaheim. Barring a few players (Iginla, Yelle, and Regehr usually) no one on the team is willing to work for 60 minutes.

Sometimes you have a few guys who hustle for 60 minutes, and they lose. Next game no one will hustle the entire game, and they lose again. When the stars align juuuust right, the entire team pours in a full 60 minute effort and they walk away with the win.

It's REALLY perplexing and upsetting given that the Flames made it to Game 7 of the Cup Finals because of nothing BUT a 60 minute effort. Grit got them farther than skill ever did, and now that they have skill it's like they don't want to use grit anymore.

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02-18-2008, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outerone View Post
Something is definetly up with Iginla. Really sucks that he is dropping in his production.

But I dont think that is what is messing up the team right now. Of course if Iginla would score 1-2 more goals a game the score would be a lot different. But the team is in some major funk.

Things looked bad in the beginning of the season and I blamed Keenan, then things got a little better and I though maybe they just needed time to adjust to his style, and now again I feel its maybe Keenan. Well maybe Keenan is getting to Kipper but this team is just as bad now as it was last season and the one before that. There hasnt been too many moments in the last 2.5 seasons Ive felt "this will be a killer game with Flames on top" when I sit down to watch a game. The LA game should of been like that. Something big needs to happen to shake this team... I just hope that happens soon. This team has all the right pieces to build a monster team...
I have a feeling Iginla has some sort of nagging injury.

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Old
02-18-2008, 05:48 PM
  #9
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I personally think this team got too carried away with skill and talent thinking that will win them games. Well sorry boys, wrong answer. Like Congo said, grit got them further than skill ever did. Thats what I used to think of when I thought Calgary Flames, grit and determination, we'll outwork you anytime anywere. It's just not there anymore!

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Old
02-18-2008, 06:43 PM
  #10
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To sum up this year's Flames weaknesses.

Our goaltending has been highly inconsistent. Our defensive play has often been soft or poorly organized. Our offense has been streaky and unreliable particularly the powerplay.

I don't think it can be easily fixed through trade. It's quite obvious that the current roster just has to pick things up. A trade for a defenseman may help.

Four players I will single out are Kiprusoff, Huselius, Sarich, and Eriksson.

Kiprusoff, I believe is an elite goaltender but he hasn't been playing up to the level that he can.

Huselius is an elite forward when he's on a hot streak. He needs to keep working to develop consistency and confidence. If that can't happen this year hopefully he gets on a hot streak during the playoffs.

Sarich and Eriksson need to make less mistakes. Particularly Sarich since he's being paid reasonably well and he's supposed to be a defensive defenseman.

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Old
02-19-2008, 12:22 AM
  #11
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its quite simple... team speed

ive brought this up over and over and over the last few years... its the largest difference between the team that went to the cup final and the teams we have had the last few years

we didnt have a lot of talent or skill back then but we were one of the fastest teams in the league.. speed can change momentum in a game quickly as well as keep the opposition in a more defensive mode

we've gotten older w/ more experience that has helped the team in that we wont be easily flustered nor can you expect the team to get too down from a loss like a young team might.. but the fact is, we have sacrificed our speed for that experience and while it hasn't dropped us in the standings, it is quite apparent in games that this team often is only trying to hold on to a game rather than dominate the opponent

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Old
02-19-2008, 12:30 AM
  #12
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It's because we have guys like Smith, Goddard, Sarich, Warrener... and it's Iginla who's fighting guys like Moen.

Way too many passengers on this team right now, and a lot of guys not doing their jobs, and some guys trying to do too much.

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02-19-2008, 12:56 AM
  #13
nibbles
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Too many wussies.

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02-19-2008, 05:44 PM
  #14
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Being in Ontario, I don't get a chance to see many of the Flames games. I'm a shift worker, and it just seems to me that they are consistently inconsistent.

I don't know what the problem is, but it appears that the whole team just doesn't show up.
Some games everything seems to click, other games, I read Keenan saying the team didn't come out prepared.

Obviously they don't give 100% everynight. Who's to know what games they show up for.

I love the Flames, they've been my favorite team forever, but if they keep staying inconsistent, missing the playoffs is extremely possible, and that would be a shame.

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02-19-2008, 08:51 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriss_co View Post
its quite simple... team speed
Team speed has something to do with it but I doubt that the entirety of this team's problems lie in the fact that they're in the bottom 10 for speed in the NHL. Personally, this team is too "under the weather", they can dominate a game, even if the opposition is faster, when their confidence is up but they are a bottom feeder when their confidence is down. It just seems there's no middle ground with this group of players. I find it incredibly odd because this team, with a supposedly solid veteran roster, does not seem to understand that one shouldn't get too high when things are working perfectly and one shouldn't get too down when things are going bad.

The question is, where does this inconsistency stem from? Is it a couple veteran players? If so, maybe a trade to "downgrade" the roster is in order. The coaching?

Personally, if it is even feasible, I would think a trade removing some of our worst offenders on the team's "confidence barometer" might hurt short term but could be a blessing starting next season.

Unfortunately, a problem like this might be easy to diagnose but might be nearly impossible to fix without completely overhauling this team.

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Old
02-21-2008, 10:50 PM
  #16
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Consistency, that and they give up too many goals in the first 2 minutes of every period.

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Old
02-22-2008, 12:46 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by JoeHockey View Post
You have to many guys who have listened to their own hype. Calgary seems to me to have to many guys who play for themselves and not the team IMO.

Just an Oiler fans evaluation of your team...
I agree with what a lot of people are saying on this thread... and I think this Oilers fan really hit a key point...

I think they are not as fast as they used to be, they certainly have more skill but don't work as hard and I think some of the players are too busy basking in the hype about themselves - I think the Calgary media is too soft on our team and overblow the talent level on the team and don't speak out about the lack of heart - (the best example is Phaneuf) Don't get me wrong... I think Phaneuf is a good player and potentially a great player... but he is a great example - the biggest reason of all is the work ethic... they are no longer "the hardest working team" in the league... there are too many people floating around and not pulling their weight or giving it their all... they just turn on the jets for a bit... and then coast.

The type of players I really miss on this team are people like Chris Clark or Gelinas... hell even Shean Donovan - those guys gave everything they had and then some... and put so much heart into their play... I look at other guys who maybe didn't have the puck handling skills but had huge speed (Donovan) and would outskate defenders to their own end and once in a while create chaos at the right moment, by blowing past defencemen caught sleeping... he wouldn't necessarily score the goal or maybe even assist, but you can create havoc through sheer speed and consistent effort (catch guys asleep)... people panic when something unexpected happens... and if your team is up by a goal or two -- many players will "fall asleep" but I think not too many of our current players will try to exploit that... they seem to think... oh... we're so awesome... this game is over, lets just take it easy so we can play to win next game... they are dreaming about the Stanley Cup Finals when they should be focused on the present... this game... right now... lets win this game... let's come from behind and kick butt... every game matters... not just the playoffs. You have to get there first and in this league you really have to EARN it... you won't simply get handed it on a silver platter. No better example exists than their recent play against Los Angeles a couple of games ago...

The problem with today's Flames is that many of our players are the guys caught asleep... many of them are our defencemen... many times one of our guys is caught napping and causes a 2 on 1 or breakaway or cough up the puck or blow defensive coverage in our own end because they think they are too damn good to lose the puck... once again... I pick on Phaneuf because he is highly paid so I think as a long time Flames fan I have a right to do so - but it's certainly not just him doing this. (sorry Phaneuf! :-))

I can't remember the last time I saw Flames block shots on a regular basis... if you look back at the 2003-2004 team (I know... I know... the league is not the same as it was then...) they all sacrificed the body to win. They blocked shots, leaped tall buildings, played hurt... whatever it took to win the game... I think not enough of the current team is willing to sacrifice enough for the team to win. I think they focus on the future instead of the present.

I honestly think that (barring significant changes to) this team (and **if** they go into the playoffs this year - and I don't think that's for certain - although I'm sure most of the Flames players think they will get there for free) they will likely not advance out of the first round... the sad thing is I don't think they need to pay all the salary they are paying right now to have a better team.

I know it's unlikely, but I think what would improve this team the most is if the Flames were sellers at this years' trade deadline... cut some of the high paid over-hyped players and get some skilled gritty and hard working younger players or prospects to add to the mix. Since there are not many sellers this year, it's likely they could get high market value for some of the overpriced players who think they are too good to play for the team instead of themselves.

Wow -- I really ranted... sorry but I've been ticked with the Flames players for a long time... it's such a shame to see such a talented team play so poorly.


Last edited by Skyguard: 02-22-2008 at 01:02 AM.
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Old
02-22-2008, 01:53 AM
  #18
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I agree with what a lot of people are saying on this thread... and I think this Oilers fan really hit a key point...

I think they are not as fast as they used to be, they certainly have more skill but don't work as hard and I think some of the players are too busy basking in the hype about themselves - I think the Calgary media is too soft on our team and overblow the talent level on the team and don't speak out about the lack of heart - (the best example is Phaneuf) Don't get me wrong... I think Phaneuf is a good player and potentially a great player... but he is a great example - the biggest reason of all is the work ethic... they are no longer "the hardest working team" in the league... there are too many people floating around and not pulling their weight or giving it their all... they just turn on the jets for a bit... and then coast.

The type of players I really miss on this team are people like Chris Clark or Gelinas... hell even Shean Donovan - those guys gave everything they had and then some... and put so much heart into their play... I look at other guys who maybe didn't have the puck handling skills but had huge speed (Donovan) and would outskate defenders to their own end and once in a while create chaos at the right moment, by blowing past defencemen caught sleeping... he wouldn't necessarily score the goal or maybe even assist, but you can create havoc through sheer speed and consistent effort (catch guys asleep)... people panic when something unexpected happens... and if your team is up by a goal or two -- many players will "fall asleep" but I think not too many of our current players will try to exploit that... they seem to think... oh... we're so awesome... this game is over, lets just take it easy so we can play to win next game... they are dreaming about the Stanley Cup Finals when they should be focused on the present... this game... right now... lets win this game... let's come from behind and kick butt... every game matters... not just the playoffs. You have to get there first and in this league you really have to EARN it... you won't simply get handed it on a silver platter. No better example exists than their recent play against Los Angeles a couple of games ago...

The problem with today's Flames is that many of our players are the guys caught asleep... many of them are our defencemen... many times one of our guys is caught napping and causes a 2 on 1 or breakaway or cough up the puck or blow defensive coverage in our own end because they think they are too damn good to lose the puck... once again... I pick on Phaneuf because he is highly paid so I think as a long time Flames fan I have a right to do so - but it's certainly not just him doing this. (sorry Phaneuf! :-))

I can't remember the last time I saw Flames block shots on a regular basis... if you look back at the 2003-2004 team (I know... I know... the league is not the same as it was then...) they all sacrificed the body to win. They blocked shots, leaped tall buildings, played hurt... whatever it took to win the game... I think not enough of the current team is willing to sacrifice enough for the team to win. I think they focus on the future instead of the present.

I honestly think that (barring significant changes to) this team (and **if** they go into the playoffs this year - and I don't think that's for certain - although I'm sure most of the Flames players think they will get there for free) they will likely not advance out of the first round... the sad thing is I don't think they need to pay all the salary they are paying right now to have a better team.

I know it's unlikely, but I think what would improve this team the most is if the Flames were sellers at this years' trade deadline... cut some of the high paid over-hyped players and get some skilled gritty and hard working younger players or prospects to add to the mix. Since there are not many sellers this year, it's likely they could get high market value for some of the overpriced players who think they are too good to play for the team instead of themselves.

Wow -- I really ranted... sorry but I've been ticked with the Flames players for a long time... it's such a shame to see such a talented team play so poorly.
to respond to a few key points, i think whats missing or different (besides to me alluding to team speed earlier) is our personnel on the 3rd and 4th lines

those are the guys who will work their butts off and blocks shots etc.. sure, your top 2 lines should have players who do that too but today's NHL puts even more emphasis on having your scoring/talented players drawing your top salaries on the first 2 lines.. with calgary, our depth of potential offensive players goes deep into our 3rd and 4th line...

i'll explain: if our top 2 lines are langkow, tanguay, iggy, huselius, nolan and conroy, those guys wont be the ones sacrificing their bodies (tho we would like them to, we'd be pretty scared if we started seeing iggy lying down in front of slap shots from the point).. work ethic and grinding along the boards probably wont come from most of those guys (tho conroy and iggy do their share)

so that leaves your 3rd and 4th liner guys to come in and do the dirty work.. well, thats where the problems come in.. we have lombardi and boyd to begin with.. both aren't exactly your prototypical grinders.. its cuz of our depth upfront that relegates these guys to the icetime of a 3rd and 4th liner even tho they arent on the team for that role

who do we have left? yelle will do it so there is no issue there... godard isn't here to be a grinder... mark smith? well he really belongs in the AHL.. david moss and marcus nilsson should be our prototypical guys to do the nitty gritty and blocking shots etc... but the problem? they are injured all the time... so that leaves us w/ a guy like wayne primeau and whoever i forgot to mention who arent getting the job done

basically, its a personnel issue.. but more importantly, its one that stems from the salary cap era and having a deep team.. because we have most of our big name players taking on big salaries, we have to have mark smith in our lineup cuz he's cheap.. we cant go out and get someone like samuel pahlsson or rob niedermayer or travis moen on this team cuz right now we cant afford them for that 3rd line role (sadly).. so until our personnel issues are rectified, i cant see the flames returning towards a balanced team w/ talent and grit

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02-22-2008, 02:58 AM
  #19
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Of course when you're talking of this year's Flames,the word inconsistency evidently comes to mind.It has been showed throughout the season.


The Flames in general this current season have been deceiving and strangely underacheiving.Sure,they're still in playoff contention,but they're not perfoming as expected.(Calgary should be considered as a Western Conference top roster)Several issues needs to be solidified and there are considerable question marks on this team.That team overall needs to be revitalized.I don't see the remarkable desire to win,display of grit demonstrated in 2004.As mentioned earlier,grit and hardwork got them much further than skill ever did.


The team defense is definitely suspect and hugely overestimated,therefore it should be suffisently improved.Goaltending is a serious issue and Kipprusoff should perform like an elite netminder,but for some reasons he can't put it together and having an significant impact on team's success.Iginla is again solidifying his all-star reputation as arguably the best powerforward in the game,but his efforts are overshadowed by Flames's season performance.The offence has been quite respectable.

Coaching has been just decent,but personally I don't think Keenan is the right and most qualified guy implemented to win a Cup in Calgary.He doesn't fully maximize the potential of this strong veteran laden lineup.Lack of a excellent depth in the AHL may also hurt,on a related topic.

I don't consider this roster as an proven legitimate contender and .There are certain areas who need to be rightly fixed to legitimately attain that status.

An view of an Hab outsider.


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Old
02-22-2008, 04:39 AM
  #20
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Until the Flames do something good (i.e deep playoff run) they will always be defined by 2004.

I realise I may be contradicting my previous comments but reading the last few posts I realise that 2004 is what everyone (including myself) relates too...

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Old
02-22-2008, 11:45 AM
  #21
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This team could use an upgrade of speed (by ditching guys like Primeau, Warrener and Godard) and their defensive play needs years of work to be done, but I think the bigger issue is the intangibles we're all mentioning. This is the third year in a row they have lacked heart, grit, determination and killer instinct or whatever you want to call it to stay on teams and finish them.

They float too much, don't stick up for each other as often as they should and are lazy. I love Dion and he is great but how many times does he let up in the defensive zone, lazily chase guys around or get caught on 2 on 1's? Far too often.

They do need a spark and I'm convinced that they're too comfortable with mediocrity. I thought Keenan would change that but he hasn't. They're too skilled to miss the playoffs or get bounced in the first round again. I think some guys need to go. I like Yelle but he needs to go, along with Warrener, Godard, Primeau and perhaps even a guy like Lombardi. I don't want to see Lombardi go but he just seems like a passenger sometimes. Maybe actually playing him with good players for a change will help.

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02-22-2008, 01:04 PM
  #22
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Too many wussies.
Like Cooke, Burrows and Kessler?

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