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Hall of Fame players AND builders

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Old
02-23-2008, 07:12 PM
  #1
noodleboy*
 
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Hall of Fame players AND builders

How many players are in the Hall of Fame as both players AND builders?

Is that possible? Can you be inducted twice?

Who SHOULD be?

Off the top of my head, I can think of Toe Blake and Jacques Lemaire.

Any others?

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02-23-2008, 07:43 PM
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rmchahn
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Bob Gainey

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02-23-2008, 08:21 PM
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Kyle McMahon
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Lester Patrick is in the Hall as a player, but his greatest contributions to hockey were undoubtedly as a builder. Along with his brother Frank, the Patricks probably did more to advance the game of hockey in the early 1900s than anybody before or since. They're definitely two of the most important people ever associated with the game.

Art Ross is also in the Hall as a player, but could quailify as a builder as well for his work coaching and managing the Bruins for three decades.

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02-24-2008, 12:27 AM
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Big Phil
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Hap Day I believe is in there on both occasions.

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02-24-2008, 01:44 AM
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I don't think Lemaire belongs as a builder. Architecting the trap isn't grounds for enshrinement and his coaching record isn't that extraordinary otherwise. Not Hall of Fame level, at any rate.

Patrick, Ross, Jack Adams and Bob Pulford are all in as players, which is silly. Their real contributions have come away from the ice.

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02-24-2008, 01:52 AM
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MXD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneyp View Post
I don't think Lemaire belongs as a builder. Architecting the trap isn't grounds for enshrinement and his coaching record isn't that extraordinary otherwise. Not Hall of Fame level, at any rate.

Patrick, Ross, Jack Adams and Bob Pulford are all in as players, which is silly. Their real contributions have come away from the ice.
Pulford isn't exactly the best HHOF, but when he retired, he was 1st in all-time SHG in the NHL or 2nd next to his partner in crime, Dave Keon.

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02-24-2008, 01:39 PM
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Pulford isn't exactly the best HHOF, but when he retired, he was 1st in all-time SHG in the NHL or 2nd next to his partner in crime, Dave Keon.
That's all well and good - although I'd never heard of that before - but in comparison Dave Andreychuk is the all-time leader in power play goals. But I believe it took him 7 years to register a power play assist. That's really having to fight for someone when you need to look that deeply into their stats. Either way Pulford is a weak HHOFer, ahead of maybe only Duff

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02-24-2008, 01:45 PM
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Short-handed goals aside, Pulford isn't REALLY in as a player. He was inducted in 1991 after serving a quarter of a century as a Blackhawks exec (I'm not qualified to say whether or not he deserves it on that account). And Duff was a better player, better than his stats for a lot of reasons, not that it matters within the context of the HOF. Neither of them were Hall-worthy.

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02-24-2008, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
That's all well and good - although I'd never heard of that before - but in comparison Dave Andreychuk is the all-time leader in power play goals. But I believe it took him 7 years to register a power play assist. That's really having to fight for someone when you need to look that deeply into their stats. Either way Pulford is a weak HHOFer, ahead of maybe only Duff
Well, I recently looked at a list for SHG. Mostly guys from the 80'ies,Clarke, Barber and Sanderson (both way younger than Pulford) Keon and Pulford . Pulford retired before Keon, and the gap in goals isn't THAT big, so chances are, he retired as the All-Time Leader. And he also scored most of those goals against MUCH BETTER GOALIES, and MUCH BETTER FORWARDS playing on the PP as well. (as opposed to especially Sanderson).

Here's the list.

1. Wayne Gretzky 73
2. Mark Messier 63
3. Steve Yzerman 50
4. Mario Lemieux 49
5. Butch Goring 40
6. Dave Poulin 39
7. Jari Kurri 37
8. Sergei Fedorov 36*
9. Theo Fleury 35
9. Dirk Graham 35
11. Derek Sanderson 34
11. Pavel Bure 34
13. Joe Sakic 32*
13. Peter Bondra 32
13. Bobby Clarke 32
13. Guy Carbonneau 32
13. Brian Rolston 32*
17. Dave Keon 31
17. Bill Barber 31
20. Mats Sundin 30*
20. Russ Courtnall 29
20. Bob Pulford 29
20. Craig MacTavish 29
20. Esa Tikkanen 29
25. Dave Reid 28
25. Jeremy Roenick 28*
25. Mike Modano 28*
25. Mark Howe 28
25. Bernie Nicholls 28

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02-24-2008, 03:36 PM
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A player who is not in the Hall but who was a great player and coach: Billy Reay



As a player, Reay was one of only two players to win a Memorial Cup (scored the winner), an Allan Cup and a Stanley Cup (two cups actually, with key two-way production as twice the top-scoring pivot on the Canadiens). Reay is considered the first player to ever raise his stick in celebration of a goal.



As a coach, Reay is 7th all-time with 598 wins (in Chicago alone his record is 516-335-161 record in 14 seasons), three trips to the Stanley Cup finals, and one of the most likeable coaches in hockey history.

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02-24-2008, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
A player who is not in the Hall but who was a great player and coach: Billy Reay



As a player, Reay was one of only two players to win a Memorial Cup (scored the winner), an Allan Cup and a Stanley Cup (two cups actually, with key two-way production as twice the top-scoring pivot on the Canadiens). Reay is considered the first player to ever raise his stick in celebration of a goal.



As a coach, Reay is 7th all-time with 598 wins (in Chicago alone his record is 516-335-161 record in 14 seasons), three trips to the Stanley Cup finals, and one of the most likeable coaches in hockey history.
Come on... Billy Reay was a great pick in the 20th round of last MLD, but he has nothing to do in the HHOF as far as playing career is concerned...

On the other hand, there are LESSER Rangers players in the Hall than Fiery Phil Watson. Although "builder" isn't an appropriate word to qualify his post-player career

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02-25-2008, 02:31 AM
  #12
Nalyd Psycho
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Reay was no where near HHoF as a player and is a choker as a coach.

Anyway, no one is in as both, but many people are inducted as players when their HHoF worthy as builders.

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02-25-2008, 05:22 PM
  #13
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If multiple enshrinements were possible Eddie Shore would be a worthy candidate.

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Old
02-25-2008, 06:56 PM
  #14
reckoning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Here's the list.

1. Wayne Gretzky 73
2. Mark Messier 63
3. Steve Yzerman 50
4. Mario Lemieux 49
5. Butch Goring 40
6. Dave Poulin 39
7. Jari Kurri 37
8. Sergei Fedorov 36*
9. Theo Fleury 35
9. Dirk Graham 35
11. Derek Sanderson 34
11. Pavel Bure 34
13. Joe Sakic 32*
13. Peter Bondra 32
13. Bobby Clarke 32
13. Guy Carbonneau 32
13. Brian Rolston 32*
17. Dave Keon 31
17. Bill Barber 31
20. Mats Sundin 30*
20. Russ Courtnall 29
20. Bob Pulford 29
20. Craig MacTavish 29
20. Esa Tikkanen 29
25. Dave Reid 28
25. Jeremy Roenick 28*
25. Mike Modano 28*
25. Mark Howe 28
25. Bernie Nicholls 28
Just curious where you got that list from because I distinctly remember reading an article from the Toronto Star (1979) when I was researching something else that stated that Ed Westfall held the career SHG record He retired long after Pulford, but isn't on that list. The article could very well have been wrong, I'm just wondering if there's an official source.

Total Hockey has Westfall with 23, Keon with 24 and Pulford with 6. But that's only counting starting with the `67-`68 season.

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Old
02-25-2008, 08:32 PM
  #15
MXD
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Originally Posted by reckoning View Post
Just curious where you got that list from because I distinctly remember reading an article from the Toronto Star (1979) when I was researching something else that stated that Ed Westfall held the career SHG record He retired long after Pulford, but isn't on that list. The article could very well have been wrong, I'm just wondering if there's an official source.

Total Hockey has Westfall with 23, Keon with 24 and Pulford with 6. But that's only counting starting with the `67-`68 season.
Joe Pelletier website.
Even then, Pulford would have retired as leader for SHG, but you have a point.

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