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The REAL Roy trade by Serge Savard

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Old
02-25-2008, 06:40 PM
  #26
FerrisRox
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Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
As we all know, Patrick Roy was traded December 6th 1995 to the Avalanche for Andrei Kovalenko, Martin Rucinsky and Jocelyn Thibault. However what we didn't know is that 3 months earlier Savard was negotiating a Roy deal.

According to Serge Savard, when the team started 0-4 that year he said it was time to make a little change as he thought in his opinion that the team he had was just missing something to win the Stanley Cup. He started negotiations with Pierre Lacroix (Avs GM) on October 12th, 1995 and he had a package of Owen Nolan, Stephane Fiset and a pick for Patrick Roy. At the time, Nolan was considered as a great young power forward. Ronald Corey was informed of that and wasn't too thrilled. The negotiations were progressing when Savard got fired on October 16th, 1995...moments later Savard still in shock went back to his office and got a call from Lacroix telling him that they have a deal, however as Savard got fired he told Lacroix the deal was off.

We know the rest...Houle and Tremblay came in and 3 months later traded Roy for a much lower value package.

*This story was on RIS told by Savard himself.
This "news" has been around for at least a decade.

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Old
02-25-2008, 06:43 PM
  #27
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They couldn't have picked 2 worse people to run the team, Houle and Tremblay.

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Old
02-25-2008, 08:53 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by fiascov View Post
I don't see how this deal is much better than the other one.

You just can't trade the best goalie to ever play the game.
We never traded Brodeur so your post is irrelevant.

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Old
02-25-2008, 09:57 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
As we all know, Patrick Roy was traded December 6th 1995 to the Avalanche for Andrei Kovalenko, Martin Rucinsky and Jocelyn Thibault. However what we didn't know is that 3 months earlier Savard was negotiating a Roy deal.

According to Serge Savard, when the team started 0-4 that year he said it was time to make a little change as he thought in his opinion that the team he had was just missing something to win the Stanley Cup. He started negotiations with Pierre Lacroix (Avs GM) on October 12th, 1995 and he had a package of Owen Nolan, Stephane Fiset and a pick for Patrick Roy. At the time, Nolan was considered as a great young power forward. Ronald Corey was informed of that and wasn't too thrilled. The negotiations were progressing when Savard got fired on October 16th, 1995...moments later Savard still in shock went back to his office and got a call from Lacroix telling him that they have a deal, however as Savard got fired he told Lacroix the deal was off.

We know the rest...Houle and Tremblay came in and 3 months later traded Roy for a much lower value package.

*This story was on RIS told by Savard himself.

I remember hearing about this many years ago. It would be a much better trade for Roy in my opinion. Nolan was a young powerfoward at the time who would go on to many good years in the league. I get the opinion Roy wanted to leave Montreal long before the Tremblay incident

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Old
02-25-2008, 10:08 PM
  #30
Mats NAslund
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Not the first time Serge has told this story...

Nolan,, Fiset, 1st rounder vs Rucinsky, Kovalenko, Thibault

Its pretty much a wash in my mind... slight edge to Serge's deal, but not really that much.

Nolan >>> Rucinsky
1st rounder (considering how habs drafted in 90s) = Kovalenko
Fiset << Thibault

Keep Keane > Lose Keane

Slight edge?

Nolan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rucinsky
1st Rounder >>>>>Kovalenko
Fiset>Thibault
Kept Keane

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Old
02-25-2008, 10:08 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
... I get the opinion Roy wanted to leave Montreal long before the Tremblay incident
I had that opinion also: i think Roy wasnt an idiot and he saw where the Habs were going and he recognised he wouldnt win another Cup up here in his carreer. So he manipulated the crowd to his advantage and threw down that ultimatum knowing he would be traded.

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Old
02-25-2008, 10:15 PM
  #32
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I knew someone who worked for the habs at the time....

I know there was better deals with 3 teams for sure...but they wanted to go with the young guys, cuz rejean thought they would all be stars...

Detroit had offerred Yzerman and two young guns in Osgood, and McCarty
osgood was young, and possibly having success cuz the wings had a great d and team....yzerman was moveable at the time cuz of federov......take it as u wish

chicago had offerred Belfour, suter...habs also wanted poulin...suter was good...but was older...and belfour had problems

the san jose deal...was a good offer...but irbe was old


rejean houle is not a smart guy...even one of his employees thought so

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Old
02-25-2008, 10:20 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by habitants9_4 View Post

Detroit had offerred Yzerman and two young guns in Osgood, and McCarty
...
rejean houle is not a smart guy...even one of his employees thought so
Are you for real? I mean Houle saying no to Yzerman????? The guy was a dolt but he wasnt an idiot...

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02-25-2008, 10:25 PM
  #34
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yes he was an idiot...im not just pulling this out of my ass....

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Old
02-25-2008, 10:29 PM
  #35
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old news

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Old
02-25-2008, 10:33 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by habitants9_4 View Post
yes he was an idiot...im not just pulling this out of my ass....
I mean, man... Houle looks like a real good guy but management wise, he was just a tool!

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Old
02-25-2008, 10:34 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitants9_4 View Post
I knew someone who worked for the habs at the time....

I know there was better deals with 3 teams for sure...but they wanted to go with the young guys, cuz rejean thought they would all be stars...

Detroit had offerred Yzerman and two young guns in Osgood, and McCarty
osgood was young, and possibly having success cuz the wings had a great d and team....yzerman was moveable at the time cuz of federov......take it as u wish

chicago had offerred Belfour, suter...habs also wanted poulin...suter was good...but was older...and belfour had problems

the san jose deal...was a good offer...but irbe was old


rejean houle is not a smart guy...even one of his employees thought so
The idea of Patrick Poulin being a deal-breaker has made me break out in hysterics. But had we been able to bring Belfour the other way...

The Nolan/Fiset/1st package is old news but would have been a much better deal at the time. Fiset was a decent starter but obviously no Roy. Nolan would have been the power forward everyone wanted. As was said, those were some pretty solid numbers he put up in San Jose.

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Old
02-25-2008, 10:40 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustafa View Post
So true... But if we recall that year, evrybody wnated to trade Roy because they saw the team was sinking and they wanted a offenssive star + a good goalie (Instead of a super duper goalie) so the team would be more competitive. Today we all know that people living in the nineties were complete retards.
So futurama-ish!!

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Old
02-25-2008, 10:48 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by LastRide View Post
They couldn't have picked 2 worse people to run the team, Houle and Tremblay.
fergusson (head coach) , with Feaster (GM) and keenan scouting ?




chris simon signed ; 10m/year, NTC (by giving up vinny, straight up)

ruutu signed ; 8m/year, NTC (st-louis , straight up)

Gino oddjick signed ; 9 m/ year , NTC ( UFA , somehere in kanawake)

DAN BOYLE SIGNED 6.6 MILIONS / YEAR!

give richards to colombus, just for the heck of it or to free cap space to try and bring jagr in ...

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Old
02-25-2008, 10:59 PM
  #40
alexstream
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NO TRADE involving Patrick "the greatest goalie in NHL history" Roy could have been a good one... well maybe one or two:
Mario Lemieux
Wayne Gretzky

Cause only those guys had the capacity to win a game on their own like Roy could.

However, some deals could have been "better".
and when I think about the team of those years... Owen Nolan, playing on Damphousse's (or Koivu) wing would have been a real stud! It would really have made a difference and would have been easier to swallow...
But that Houle trade was ALL bad :
Thibault was the biggest part and was an unproven goalie trying to fill a LEGEND's shoes.
Rosie was a softie... never good when you're traded for a LEGEND
Kovalenko... I get shivers naming him... I don't even wanna think about it, I'm gonna start gagging soon.

ANY trade no matter how bad it would have been, involving Owen Nolan on the way back, would have been sweeter to swallow. cause Owen was an all out player, dishing hits at will and scoring big time goals. Owen also did cool things like going to the Olympics for team Canada and is somewhat of a leader.
It would have been a bad trade, but one which we could have forgotten about ...

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Old
02-26-2008, 12:38 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitants9_4 View Post
I knew someone who worked for the habs at the time....

I know there was better deals with 3 teams for sure...but they wanted to go with the young guys, cuz rejean thought they would all be stars...

Detroit had offerred Yzerman and two young guns in Osgood, and McCarty
osgood was young, and possibly having success cuz the wings had a great d and team....yzerman was moveable at the time cuz of federov......take it as u wish

chicago had offerred Belfour, suter...habs also wanted poulin...suter was good...but was older...and belfour had problems

the san jose deal...was a good offer...but irbe was old


rejean houle is not a smart guy...even one of his employees thought so
If this is true, then...I dislike Rejean Houle even more.

Rejean Houle
Mario Tremblay

No wonder I'm such a huge fan of Bob Gainey, Carbo, Muller, and Jarvis.

I also liked Demers as coach and Pat Burns as coach.

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Old
02-26-2008, 12:59 AM
  #42
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Agree with you, Mr. Hab. I hate Osgood and McCarty but we wouldn't have to keep them. Just having Damphousse and Yzerman leading this team is enough for me.

The Roenick/Belfour idea is great too. I don't see so many Habs going over to the Blackhawks because Roy is slightly more important than Belfour, but Roy+Keane+Savage for Roenick+Belfour is good for me. I would have killed for JR in a Hab uniform, and even if both didn't work out, the trade value is increased individually.

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Old
02-26-2008, 03:56 AM
  #43
Kimota
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This shows how foolish Ronald Corey and the Molson family were. They did a move that damaged the franchise beyond repairs for 15 years. And the same time spit in the face of Savard who gave them two Stanley Cup and was a warrior for the Habs during all those years as a player, as a gM, etc...

Owen Nolan in Montreal...I don't think we've ever had a player of this talent in his prime in those 15 years. No wonder we've so starved and keep dreaming of Briere....and Hossa...and Santan Claus.

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Old
02-26-2008, 07:09 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustafa View Post
So true... But if we recall that year, evrybody wnated to trade Roy because they saw the team was sinking and they wanted a offenssive star + a good goalie (Instead of a super duper goalie) so the team would be more competitive. Today we all know that people living in the nineties were complete retards.
wow...just wow

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Old
02-26-2008, 07:42 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by LastRide View Post
They couldn't have picked 2 worse people to run the team, Houle and Tremblay.
Incompetence starts at the top: Corey

I agree about that 90s comment btw. My peer group was full of moronic egotists. I prefer people from the 00's by a large margin.

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Old
02-26-2008, 07:58 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Artie View Post
wow...just wow
I guess he didn't really think it through, unless he's younger than 8 years old or a ....

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Old
02-26-2008, 09:26 AM
  #47
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We've all heard about that deal of Serge's for years now. Looking back, that deal would have been a mile ahead of the deal that actually happen. A lot of GMs look at these deals as the winner is the one that got the best player. Roy is still the best player. But out of the two returns for him, you have, Rucinski, Kovalenko, Thibault or Nolan, Fiset, pick. Nolan is the best player by a mile. If he won't score, he'll at least beat you up. Fiset and Thibault, I don't see much of a difference between the two as neither was great.

As far as the pick is concerned, if it was a 1st, those were generally hit and miss under Savard mostly miss. If it was a second, these were surprising good. Anyways, they drafted 25th in the first, we drafted 18th. We used are pick to select Matt Higgins with career numbers of 57-1-2-3 they chose Peter Ratchuck 32-1-1-2.

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Old
02-26-2008, 09:56 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustafa View Post
So true... But if we recall that year, evrybody wnated to trade Roy because they saw the team was sinking and they wanted a offenssive star + a good goalie (Instead of a super duper goalie) so the team would be more competitive. Today we all know that people living in the nineties were complete retards.
That's not exactly quite right. If you remember, they had been building the new Bell center {Molson center at the time}. Molson was bleeding money out of every orifice because of the recession, and the cost overruns of the new arena were killing them.

It's never been said publicly by any of the people involved {and probably never will}, but if you look at how they put Houle in the GM's chair {a loyal executive who served Molson Brewery sales} and how he immediately started a massive firesale, I think it's fairly obvious that they were desperately cutting costs.

I would guess, and it's only a guess, that Savard was told to get rid of Roy's salary.
It's EXTREMELY unlikely that Savard {who was a very shrewd GM} would have on his own initiative traded away the best goalie in the league at the time {who had just won them a cup a year before}, and that Houle would do the very same thing a few months later.

It's more likely that Savard was told to get rid of the salary by Molsons, and when Houle came in, he was also under orders to get rid of the salary.

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Old
02-26-2008, 10:00 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustafa View Post
So true... But if we recall that year, evrybody wnated to trade Roy because they saw the team was sinking and they wanted a offenssive star + a good goalie (Instead of a super duper goalie) so the team would be more competitive. Today we all know that people living in the nineties were complete retards.
Quoted for the irony.

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