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Old
02-27-2008, 09:07 AM
  #26
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Richards wouldn't have waived his NTC to come here if Doug was still in charge - take that to the bank.

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02-27-2008, 09:28 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougKnowsBest View Post
but doug would of gotten the deal done for Richards . now that i have sat and read what dallas gave up, im amazed.

not all prospect are going to make it. they all have experation dates. maybe im just a fool, but ill take a nhl all star in his prime, over a prospect goalie anyday. Goalie prospect pffft. goalies come and go. they dont all make it, hell most dont make it.

we just passed on a sure thing so we can take a chance on a maybe


so hey scott, next time you sit down at the negotiations table, bring your wife with you would ya. maybe she has some balls
I don't doubt we could have gambled, upped the ante, and gotten Richards. Dallas is taking a big chance moving a great young goalie given Turco's recent level of performance.

Leclaire would have gotten us Richards. Personally, I'd rather keep our star in net than trade him for a star center. I can understand the other side of the argument, its a tough call to make and one that can make or break your team.

Howson is not a gambler, good or bad, he is what he is....methodic, cautious, and careful.

he could have gambled that we can go 14-4 to finish the season and grab the 8th seed...instead he made the safe move and dealt away the veterans that were marketable for future assets rather than watch them play 18 more games in what will likely be another season without the playoffs.

I can't argue with his logic.

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02-27-2008, 09:36 AM
  #28
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worst thread EVER!

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02-27-2008, 10:11 AM
  #29
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Time to move on. Richards deal is done and over. Now the question at hand is, how do we not become "shark bait" tonite?

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02-27-2008, 11:02 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
What about this...Garon is the next goaltender in Edmonton, Roloson could probably have been had. We trade for Roloson and then package him in a trade for Richards. Get it done Scottie....ohh, wait
At approximately 11am yesterday, the conversation might have gone like this:
"Hm. An interesting proposal. Let's go see if Feaster is interested in getting Roloson."

"...oh, wait, that's right, he's not answered our phone calls ever since Dallas put Smith on the table."

Because you *have* to get Feaster's buy-in on that sort of thing; otherwise we're potentially left holding the bag with a 'tender we didn't need ourselves.

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02-27-2008, 11:39 AM
  #31
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Doug wouldn't have ever gotten Hejda, who is arguably our best defensive defensemen. Novotny, who started out as top scorer second only to Nash, Zherdev would've been traded if Doug had his say, and we'd be kissing the bottom of standings once again, and we never would've gotten what we did for Foote.

I can't see how anyone can agree with someone who wanted to trade Zherdev. Do you think we'd even be interested in Richards if XGMDM would still be here?

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02-27-2008, 11:44 AM
  #32
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Doug probably would have gotten it done, but not for Pascal. If he offered better forwards besides Fritsche and maybe Klesla, Richards would be suiting up against the Sharks tonight. Basically Howson dropped the ball, that's all there is to it.

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02-27-2008, 11:47 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
Doug probably would have gotten it done, but not for Pascal. If he offered better forwards besides Fritsche and maybe Klesla, Richards would be suiting up against the Sharks tonight. Basically Howson dropped the ball, that's all there is to it.
Let it go!!!! Where do you get your info, or do you just make it up as you go since your mancrush for Richards is unhealthy????? It has now crossed the line into pathetic!!!

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Old
02-27-2008, 11:50 AM
  #34
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There's a very simple way to end this debate: name the trade. Put the puzzle together for us. But remember, the puzzle is not a picture of Steve Mason, so that argument is gone. Tampa did not want a prospect goalie, they wanted a starter for the next 2 years, minimally. Their target is a ready, starting goalie. That's what they most covet. That and cap room.

Additionally, you must consider what Dallas actually offered given that this game isn't played in a vacuum.

You have offered Brule+Fritsche+OKT.

Dallas has offered:
Smith, G Lifetime stats: 24-14, .909 S%
Jokinen, LW 215 GP, 45/86 = 131
Halpern, C 578 GP, 105/158 = 263

Just for comparison's sake:
Zherdev, RW 265 GP, 74/98 = 172.

In other words, Jussi Jokinen is statistically in the ballpark with
Zherdev.

So now show us the counter-offer that would have tipped the scales in our favor.

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Old
02-27-2008, 11:56 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugg View Post
Doug wouldn't have ever gotten Hejda, who is arguably our best defensive defensemen. Novotny, who started out as top scorer second only to Nash, Zherdev would've been traded if Doug had his say, and we'd be kissing the bottom of standings once again, and we never would've gotten what we did for Foote.

I can't see how anyone can agree with someone who wanted to trade Zherdev. Do you think we'd even be interested in Richards if XGMDM would still be here?

first, doug drafted Z. doug made the move for NAsh, doug is responisible for leclaire. At some point in the past year and a half, anyone with half brain considered tradeing z. Just wanted to say that before the victors completley rewrite history





all im saying. had doug been faced with the richards desicion. he would of found a way to get him. make it a 3 way deal, whatever. huet went for a second. we could of moved our second. the deal was there, scott played the smart conservitave move.


id like to have seen us add yesterday


Last edited by DougKnowsBest: 02-27-2008 at 12:03 PM.
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Old
02-27-2008, 11:57 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Bugg View Post
Do you think there would be any more CBJ season ticket holders if XGMDM was still here?
Fixed it for you.

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Old
02-27-2008, 11:57 AM
  #37
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Keep in mind that the reason Tampa is in all this trouble is that they haven't had good goaltending... they haven't even had average goaltending.

Consistent play in goal is the 1st key to success, build a franchise from the net out, yada, yada, yada... but it's true. Name a cup winning franchise that didn't have good goalie play, at least when it mattered. Look at Vancouver and New Jersey... team defense and a hot hand in goal is how they qualify for the playoffs.

So, in summation, repeat the following to yourself ad nauseum... "Goaltending depth is important"

Think of it this way, how many games would we've won with an extra goal once every three nights? How many would we have lost allowing an extra goal every night?

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Old
02-27-2008, 12:03 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMthespoon View Post
There's a very simple way to end this debate: name the trade. Put the puzzle together for us. But remember, the puzzle is not a picture of Steve Mason, so that argument is gone. Tampa did not want a prospect goalie, they wanted a starter for the next 2 years, minimally. Their target is a ready, starting goalie. That's what they most covet. That and cap room.

Additionally, you must consider what Dallas actually offered given that this game isn't played in a vacuum.

You have offered Brule+Fritsche+OKT.

Dallas has offered:
Smith, G Lifetime stats: 24-14, .909 S%
Jokinen, LW 215 GP, 45/86 = 131
Halpern, C 578 GP, 105/158 = 263

Just for comparison's sake:
Zherdev, RW 265 GP, 74/98 = 172.

In other words, Jussi Jokinen is statistically in the ballpark with
Zherdev.

So now show us the counter-offer that would have tipped the scales in our favor.
Bingo.

Not only did the CBJ not have a goaltender to part with, but they didn't have a young forward with any sort of established NHL track record to include either.

If you look at what Dallas got, the CBJ equivalent would've been:
Leclaire or Norrena AND Zherdev.
And we'd REALLY be killing Howson then.

If it comes out that a guy like Klesla or Norrena or that ilk was a sticking point for the CBJ, then I will join the chorus of those bagging on Howson.

Until then, Iíll stick to what I know and that is that the CBJ didnít appear to have the pieces Tampa not only wanted, but needed.

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Old
02-27-2008, 12:11 PM
  #39
Friedrich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougKnowsBest View Post
first, doug drafted Z. doug made the move for NAsh, doug is responisible for leclaire. At some point in the past year and a half, anyone with half brain considered tradeing z. Just wanted to say that before the victors completley rewrite history





all im saying. had doug been faced with the richards desicion. he would of found a way to get him. make it a 3 way deal, whatever. huet went for a second. we could of moved our second. the deal was there, scott played the smart conservitave move.

id like to have seen us add yesterday

Yes, Doug did do all those things you said. And I never said all his moves were bad. Though the fact of the matter is, you say anyone with half a brain wanted to trade Zherdev a year or so ago. Well I'm glad that someone in the orginizatin had half the brain not to. It's just my point that we wouldn't have been even considering the playoffs last December if Z was gone. And the GM you admire so much was still here, you can bet that it was plausable. Then where would you stand?

And look at what I bolded in your last post. Which would you have rather prefered? The hasty, stupid move?

Even with Richards, we're not going to avoid more than four losses for the rest of the season. With Crosby, Malkin and Hossa, I bet the Pens lose more than four from this point on. Granted, they'll probably have a good record. But face it, Nash isn't a Crosby, Richard's isn't a Malkin, and Modin is definately not a Hossa.

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Old
02-27-2008, 12:12 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe View Post
If it comes out that a guy like Klesla or Norrena or that ilk was a sticking point for the CBJ, then I will join the chorus of those bagging on Howson.
That's a good point, Kallio.

Yesterday in his interview on 1460, the one thing that really concerned me is that Howson made it sound like once he knew what Dallas had offered, he never considered trying to counter it by adding Norenna. I have no idea if that would have given us hand, but who knows. I'd feel better if I knew he at least tried that.

Norenna has more career NHL starts and the same save percentage playing for a far weaker (in every regard: he has a worse D in front of him and gets less goal support) team. Contractually I'm not sure how Smith and Freddy match up, which could have been an issue.

The obvious problem with Freddy is his age compared to Smith. Smith gives TBL not just today's goalie but also adds an asset that they'll have in 4, 5 years once they're jammed at the position. By that time, Freddy's back in Finland drinking...Halibut Coladas or whatever.

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Old
02-27-2008, 12:20 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by IAMthespoon View Post
That's a good point, Kallio.

Yesterday in his interview on 1460, the one thing that really concerned me is that Howson made it sound like once he knew what Dallas had offered, he never considered trying to counter it by adding Norenna. I have no idea if that would have given us hand, but who knows. I'd feel better if I knew he at least tried that.

Norenna has more career NHL starts and the same save percentage playing for a far weaker (in every regard: he has a worse D in front of him and gets less goal support) team. Contractually I'm not sure how Smith and Freddy match up, which could have been an issue.

The obvious problem with Freddy is his age compared to Smith. Smith gives TBL not just today's goalie but also adds an asset that they'll have in 4, 5 years once they're jammed at the position. By that time, Freddy's back in Finland drinking...Halibut Coladas or whatever.
Iím just giving him the benefit of the doubt that Tampa wasnít interested in Norrena. His age and performance this year would justify an uninterested shrug on their end and I canít think of any good reason why Columbus wouldnít include him, so Iím just assuming Norrena was a no-go for the Lightning.
If it comes out otherwise though ...

I still think Jokinen continues to be the undervalued part of the deal from the CBJ fan's perspective. Heís 24 and has had a 48 pt season and 58 pt season, is on pace for about 20 goals and 40 points this year, has 45 career goals and heís a shootout wizard.
Brule and Fritsche have 40 career goals combined.


Last edited by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe: 02-27-2008 at 12:26 PM.
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Old
02-27-2008, 12:24 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMthespoon View Post
That's a good point, Kallio.

Yesterday in his interview on 1460, the one thing that really concerned me is that Howson made it sound like once he knew what Dallas had offered, he never considered trying to counter it by adding Norenna. I have no idea if that would have given us hand, but who knows. I'd feel better if I knew he at least tried that.

Norenna has more career NHL starts and the same save percentage playing for a far weaker (in every regard: he has a worse D in front of him and gets less goal support) team. Contractually I'm not sure how Smith and Freddy match up, which could have been an issue.

The obvious problem with Freddy is his age compared to Smith. Smith gives TBL not just today's goalie but also adds an asset that they'll have in 4, 5 years once they're jammed at the position. By that time, Freddy's back in Finland drinking...Halibut Coladas or whatever.
Even if he had offered Norrena, Smith would be the more attractive goalie. He's younger and has more upside. Norrena in Tampa would merely be a stop gap until one of their prospects was ready to take the reigns. With Smith, if he does pan out, they would have a quality goalie that has long term value as either a franchise netminder or trade bait. If I'm Feaster I'm not sure I'd take Norrena, Klesla, and a 2nd over what Dallas offered.

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02-27-2008, 12:33 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe View Post
Iím just giving him the benefit of the doubt that Tampa wasnít interested in Norrena.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cydawg View Post
Even if he had offered Norrena, Smith would be the more attractive goalie.
Totally agree to both. Like Kallio, I'm giving benefit of the doubt on this. I'm just saying that if it comes out that he never tried to counter-offer, that would make me change my thinking on how the whole thing went down and whether there's any "blame" to be placed at his feet.

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02-27-2008, 12:37 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by IAMthespoon View Post
Totally agree to both. Like Kallio, I'm giving benefit of the doubt on this. I'm just saying that if it comes out that he never tried to counter-offer, that would make me change my thinking on how the whole thing went down and whether there's any "blame" to be placed at his feet.
From what I've read, I'm not even sure that Howson even got the opportunity to counter-offer.

Disappointing result, but it's time to move on from this (to whoever is still standing on the edge of the cliff over yesterday's events).

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02-27-2008, 01:01 PM
  #45
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From what I've read, I'm not even sure that Howson even got the opportunity to counter-offer.

Disappointing result, but it's time to move on from this (to whoever is still standing on the edge of the cliff over yesterday's events).
Agreed.

I don't understand how can Howson can be expected to negotiate if Tampa doesn't return his calls?

Tampa clearly wanted a goalie. Maybe Howson could have done a three team deal, but if Tampa wasn't talk to him, there wasn't any way to do that.

Tampa would have been scouting the Jackets and if they had wanted a player that wasn't offered, they would have gotten back to Howson.

But it's all water under the bridge now.

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Old
02-27-2008, 01:03 PM
  #46
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From what I've read, I'm not even sure that Howson even got the opportunity to counter-offer.
I listened to the interview and that is the way he said it.. he was never given even the opportunity to sweeten the pot.

He also then added there was a list of players that they were not ready to part with. Mason was on that list I'm sure.

Smith was the deal breaker and we had nothing to counter that -- its that simple.

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02-27-2008, 01:09 PM
  #47
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Doug openly criticizes this orgarnization again as a paid analyst and says Richards would have come if I was still there" Sour grapes does not look good on MacLean.

He made so many bad decisions going back to not keeping Whitney, Tugnutt etc.. bringing in Semenov, Lapylon, Richardson.. Hrdina. not ot mention the terrible overpayments in salary of Foote, Federov, Marchant. Even when we had guys like Sydor we had no systems.. it was like watching blind mice.
Every year I would shake my head watching those moves knowing Columbus was digging a deeper hole. For once I see your team as on the right track.

Learn from the past; live in the present & plan for the future....

Maclean never learned from the past or planned for the future - I would never, ever take advice from him...........

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02-27-2008, 01:20 PM
  #48
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Thats is BS DKB. The only way we get this done is Pascal Lecalire plus more for Richards. Yea...Doug would have done that...and I would have KILLED him for it.

Read it again. THE ONLY WAY IT GETS DONE IF FOR LECLAIRE!!!

You would do this??? HUH?
I would have done it. LeClaire has had one good year, this one. He's an injury prone goaltender who has been lucky this year as far as his health. He WILL get injured again and miss a ton of games. With Mason coming prolly next year I would have traded LeClaire in a heartbeat. I'm sick & tired of being the lowest scoring team in the league. Adding Richards with Nash would have done wonders for that stat. Noreena could have finished out the year and even with him in the net we would have stood a better chance of getting into the playoffs with a Nash/Richards line than we do now. You have to give up good players to get good players! Yes, in a freakin heartbeat!!

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02-27-2008, 01:24 PM
  #49
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I would have done it. LeClaire has had one good year, this one. He's an injury prone goaltender who has been lucky this year as far as his health. He WILL get injured again and miss a ton of games. With Mason coming prolly next year I would have traded LeClaire in a heartbeat. I'm sick & tired of being the lowest scoring team in the league. Adding Richards with Nash would have done wonders for that stat. Noreena could have finished out the year and even with him in the net we would have stood a better chance of getting into the playoffs with a Nash/Richards line than we do now. You have to give up good players to get good players! Yes, in a freakin heartbeat!!
delusional!!

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02-27-2008, 01:27 PM
  #50
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delusional!!
I'm not the one with the crying avatar.

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