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Should the habs have gone for a third liner?

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02-27-2008, 02:30 PM
  #1
Sir Jacques Demers
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Should the habs have gone for a third liner?

I remember someone on TV talking about guys like Gratton, Holik, etc. Guys that get about 40-50 points per year, with strong faceoff, defensive and physical skills... all areas where the habs need to improve.

I'm wondering why gainey did not try to make a move to get a player like that (even a rental). Probably would not have cost much. Actually, it might not have cost anything if we gave up some of our useless third & forth line players who we have to bench every 1 out of 3 games.

My opinion is that Gainey was fixated on getting rid of Huet and getting Hossa, but only him and no one else. By his own admission at the press conference yesterday he had not negotiated with any other players in the last 48 hours but Hossa.

Seems to me as he was so enthralled with the idea of having Hossa on his team that he forgot that he has other GM duties, which are to make any trades that are good deals and can help the team. Look at Colorado, Washington. Don't tell me those guys are gonna go far in the playoffs this year. Yet they still added support-type players for the playoffs. I'm not saying the habs should have added 3 guys like they did. But why not 1 guy as a solid 3rd liner - which we could have gotten for pretty cheap if we packaged on of our 3rd liners with a low pick.

To have even a remote chance of going far in the playoffs, we need a team where Smolinski is unworthy of being a reserve player. That is, our worst young players on the 4th line and some quality defensive/robust players on the 3rd.

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02-27-2008, 02:35 PM
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lou4gehrig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Jacques Demers View Post
I remember someone on TV talking about guys like Gratton, Holik, etc. Guys that get about 40-50 points per year, with strong faceoff, defensive and physical skills... all areas where the habs need to improve.

I'm wondering why gainey did not try to make a move to get a player like that (even a rental). Probably would not have cost much. Actually, it might not have cost anything if we gave up some of our useless third & forth line players who we have to bench every 1 out of 3 games.

My opinion is that Gainey was fixated on getting rid of Huet and getting Hossa, but only him and no one else. By his own admission at the press conference yesterday he had not negotiated with any other players in the last 48 hours but Hossa.

Seems to me as he was so enthralled with the idea of having Hossa on his team that he forgot that he has other GM duties, which are to make any trades that are good deals and can help the team. Look at Colorado, Washington. Don't tell me those guys are gonna go far in the playoffs this year. Yet they still added support-type players for the playoffs. I'm not saying the habs should have added 3 guys like they did. But why not 1 guy as a solid 3rd liner - which we could have gotten for pretty cheap if we packaged on of our 3rd liners with a low pick.

To have even a remote chance of going far in the playoffs, we need a team where Smolinski is unworthy of being a reserve player. That is, our worst young players on the 4th line and some quality defensive/robust players on the 3rd.
Well Gratton and Holik are more like 20 point guys. That's a big difference in my book. Lapierre and Lats are 20 point guys right now.

If there were true 40-50 point 3rd line centers available, I think they would have been in extremely high demand.

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02-27-2008, 02:35 PM
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Darz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Jacques Demers View Post
I remember someone on TV talking about guys like Gratton, Holik, etc. Guys that get about 40-50 points per year, with strong faceoff, defensive and physical skills... all areas where the habs need to improve.

Gratton is on pace for 28 points this year, and hasn't got more than 40 in 5 years.

Holik is also on pace for 28 points this year, and hasn't top 33 points in 4 years.

Considering their ages and such niether of these guys can be considered 40-50 point guys anymore.

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02-27-2008, 02:37 PM
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CareyPrice x 31
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I think we could have used a guy but I see it like this...We've gotten to where we are now with these guys, why would we not be able to keep up the great work?

Im happy with our team.

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02-27-2008, 02:37 PM
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Rather the young kids gain experience

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02-27-2008, 02:37 PM
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This is exactly why I was pushing for Jarret Stoll, but it was not to be.

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02-27-2008, 02:40 PM
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lou4gehrig
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This is exactly why I was pushing for Jarret Stoll, but it was not to be.
Would have been expensive in trade and is a UFA I believe.

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02-27-2008, 02:43 PM
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Fedorov is the only guy I was really hoping we might get, but in the end I think we're alright as-is.

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02-27-2008, 02:44 PM
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Sir Jacques Demers
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Rather the young kids gain experience
There are 5 other slots on the bottom 2 lines for "learning". The player I'm talking about would take over a space filled by Dandy/Smoke/Kost, not a young player.Quite frankly I'm getting tired of people saying that. Hrm, Latendresse has 3 points in a month, he must be gaining experience

Okay , maybe I was pushing it with 45 points. But the point totals aren't important. It's faceoffs, physical, and defensive.

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02-27-2008, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Sir Jacques Demers View Post
Okay , maybe I was pushing it with 45 points. But the point totals aren't important. It's faceoffs, physical, and defensive.


I wouldn't have minded getting a guy like Stoll or Fedorov, didnt' work out that way unfortunately.

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02-27-2008, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Jacques Demers View Post
The player I'm talking about would take over a space filled by Dandy/Smoke/Kost
...In the pressbox?

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02-27-2008, 03:38 PM
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Pax Macioretty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Jacques Demers View Post
There are 5 other slots on the bottom 2 lines for "learning". The player I'm talking about would take over a space filled by Dandy/Smoke/Kost, not a young player.Quite frankly I'm getting tired of people saying that. Hrm, Latendresse has 3 points in a month, he must be gaining experience
Okay , maybe I was pushing it with 45 points. But the point totals aren't important. It's faceoffs, physical, and defensive.
wow, ok All 3 players that ''your'' players are supose to replace we're all in the pressbox last night, and for good reason, Kids are starting to take charge of this team, We need firepower, we don't want or need fill up players, we're still in rebuilding mode, we're just alot better then expected. As for Latendresse, lately his speed has gained a notch and he is learning to play the defensive side of hockey becasue the Hasb aren't rushing him. Look at Bobby Ryan right now or how good players like Nash and Bertuzzi we're at 20 years of age...

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02-27-2008, 03:41 PM
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That's what I was thinking before the trade deadline. Now this is over, the idea of a Latendresse-Grabovski-S.Kost kid line pleases me and I hope these kids will prove me I was wrong.

The deadwood is all in the pressbox, so what's the matter? Why should the Habs add an extra hot dog eater?

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02-27-2008, 03:46 PM
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Sir Jacques Demers
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Originally Posted by Nobak View Post
...In the pressbox?
No. The player we would have added would be a regular, moving someone else to 4th line, and moving our useless players to the pressbox permanently.

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02-27-2008, 03:46 PM
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Another way of seeing this:

We already have on our roster th following player available for the bottom 6:
Dandy, Streit, Kosto, Smo, Begin, Lap, Lats, Grabs & Ryder (basically 9 player for 6 spots)

The real question is, do you want a 10th player for those spot and what would be the impact on the 9 others?

I think we do have enough of those type of player (although, I totally agree that we could have better player) and I beleive it would have had an impact on the team morale!

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02-27-2008, 03:48 PM
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Sir Jacques Demers
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Originally Posted by fatmax View Post
Another way of seeing this:

We already have on our roster th following player available for the bottom 6:
Dandy, Streit, Kosto, Smo, Begin, Lap, Lats, Grabs & Ryder (basically 9 player for 6 spots)

The real question is, do you want a 10th player for those spot and what would be the impact on the 9 others?

I think we do have enough of those type of player (although, I totally agree that we could have better player) and I beleive it would have had an impact on the team morale!
We would have a better 3rd line forward and the crappy ones would be the odd ones out. Right now, we have maybe 3 of those guys above the pack (Ryder, Streit, Latendresse) and the rest are pretty much interchangeable.

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02-27-2008, 03:52 PM
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Gainey has god awful trading skills and it's becoming more and more obvious as the deadlines go by. He is routinely had the carpet pulled out from under him by GMs who take what they want.

Quote:
I'm wondering why gainey did not try to make a move to get a player like that
Incompetance, even the things he tries to do he fails at. I am curious what he was going to pay for Hossa had Pittsburg not gotten him.

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02-27-2008, 03:55 PM
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holik is a sack of ****, that is why no one except the rangers would want him

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02-27-2008, 04:03 PM
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Incompetance, even the things he tries to do he fails at.
Gainey can't win but it's not because of his competence. It's "fans" like yourself who bash any move he makes.

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I am curious what he was going to pay for Hossa had Pittsburg not gotten him.
This quote alones speaks volumes. You are angry because he as so incompetant that he couldn't land Hossa. Yet if he had you would be complaining what he gave up. The only way for you to be happy would be if he traded a 7th rounder for Hossa. Basically, you want the impossible. How can he win with such expectations?

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02-27-2008, 04:16 PM
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OneSharpMarble
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Gainey can't win but it's not because of his competence. It's "fans" like yourself who bash any move he makes.
Yeah lets not cast doubt on anything and just follow along. Thinking for ourselves is a pain.

Quote:
This quote alones speaks volumes. You are angry because he as so incompetant that he couldn't land Hossa. Yet if he had you would be complaining what he gave up. The only way for you to be happy would be if he traded a 7th rounder for Hossa. Basically, you want the impossible. How can he win with such expectations?
This comment also speaks volume but mostly for your reading comprehension or lack thereof. I said nothing of the kind I was simply curious what he was willing to part with and how many of you sheep would still be praising his trades had he moved Higgins, Grabs and a 1st.

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02-27-2008, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
This comment also speaks volume but mostly for your reading comprehension or lack thereof. I said nothing of the kind I was simply curious what he was willing to part with and how many of you sheep would still be praising his trades had he moved Higgins, Grabs and a 1st.
I apologize if I read it wrong. It's tough to get a feel for people's tones. I just assumed you were typing sarcastically. (Does that make sense?)

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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Incompetance, even the things he tries to do he fails at. I am curious what he was going to pay for Hossa had Pittsburg not gotten him.
I read this as "Gainey is incompetent and fails at everything. I'd love to see what he would have given up for Hossa. I'm sure it would have been an crazy overpayment on his part, taking his incompetent history."

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02-27-2008, 04:31 PM
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OneSharpMarble
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I apologize if I read it wrong. It's tough to get a feel for people's tones. I just assumed you were typing sarcastically. (Does that make sense?)
OK just a simple misunderstanding then.

Quote:
I read this as "Gainey is incompetent and fails at everything. I'd love to see what he would have given up for Hossa. I'm sure it would have been an crazy overpayment on his part, taking his incompetent history."
For the record I don't think he fails at everything just trading and acquiring new talent and who to acquire. He has great scouts working for him and has not overpaid "yet" for a rental which is nice.

Take Emelin for example, he would be playing here right now had Gainey offered him a contract sooner but another team offered him one first and so he stays in the super league for a few years. Like *** is that? How do you mess up on something like that?

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02-27-2008, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GoHabsGo247 View Post


I wouldn't have minded getting a guy like Stoll or Fedorov, didnt' work out that way unfortunately.
If we were dealing with Columbus, Peca would have been better pick for third liner type of guy. Actually bit surprised he didnt get traded, seems to have done pretty well this year... he actually is on pace for 40 points.

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02-27-2008, 04:49 PM
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David_99
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
For the record I don't think he fails at everything just trading and acquiring new talent and who to acquire. He has great scouts working for him and has not overpaid "yet" for a rental which is nice.

Take Emelin for example, he would be playing here right now had Gainey offered him a contract sooner but another team offered him one first and so he stays in the super league for a few years. Like *** is that? How do you mess up on something like that?
Ah OK, so you feel there's no real sense of urgency when it comes to Gainey's deals? I feel the same way. He's no Brian Burke. He won't hold out and nickel and dime every move. He'll set something up and if it doesn't pan out "Oh well, we'll just have to go with what we have".

I think his patients can also be a good thing though. He didn't trade Kostitsyn the first sign of trouble. He's giving time for the team to build as a family instead of trading away the farm to get an impact player, screw the chemistry.

Good or bad the individual deals are, he is slowly but surely improving the team. This can't be denied.

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02-27-2008, 05:19 PM
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I thought what the Canadiens needed was a shutdown line. People say Canadiens needed d-men because they give up too many goals but I think a lot of it is due to poor work from Dandenault, Smolinski and the rest of the bunch that can't keep up with Malkin, Alfredson and all those guys who always have big games against the Canadiens. A guy like Peca would have helped a lot.

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