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Sean Hill and Eric Daze

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04-25-2004, 06:34 AM
  #1
SwiftyHab
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Sean Hill and Eric Daze

Especially after that first game whooping, there seems to be a lot of talk as to what the Habs need to compete next year if there is a season.
I think many of us, including BG has recongnized that we're missing a #1 D-Man, and a power forward, and a position is available on the 2nd line LW

That being said, BG has already tried to land Sean Hill who will be UFA this summer. I would love to see him on this team. He's big, he plays a Scott Stevens game for nearly 30 minutes, he's got a terrific shot that he uses on the Carolina PP, and most importantly he always makes a great first pass. I'd really like Brisebois to waive his bloody NO Trade clause and stop taking up this team's payroll money which I would imagine Hill would be happy to play for. It would be a 100% raise from his current $2 mill salary.

Every team wants a powerforward with good hands. We need him to play left wing on the 2nd line. Chicago just so happens to have a 6'6 235 pounder that fits that description. Even better, he's an RFA making 3.25 mill this year. As a team still in its early stages of rebuilding, I think a prospect and a pick trade or even two prospects for such a talented player like Daze would entice Chicago to make a deal. I could see Hainsey and Hossa go, or Perez and a 1st rounder.
Like I said in another posting, skilled powerforwards of Daze's size don't come around too often ie Lecavalier, Thornton, Bertuzzi. And we certainly dont have anyone in our prospects that compares to him and the game he brings.

As for our forward prospects that should make the team next year: Higgins, Perez, Plekanec, Hossa. i see no problem with them playing on the third or fourth line and being brought along slowly like Burns did with Thornton in Boston.

Ive never done this, but I'd love to see these lines next year

Kovalev-Koivu-Zednik
Daze-RIbeiro-Ryder
Bulis-Dowd-Ward
Higgins-Begin-Hossa/Plekanec/Perez/Sundstrom (if he's still around)

Markov-Hill
Souray-Komi
Rivet-Hainsey

7th man Bouillon

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04-25-2004, 06:47 AM
  #2
s7ark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwiftyHab
Especially after that first game whooping, there seems to be a lot of talk as to what the Habs need to compete next year if there is a season.
I think many of us, including BG has recongnized that we're missing a #1 D-Man, and a power forward, and a position is available on the 2nd line LW

That being said, BG has already tried to land Sean Hill who will be UFA this summer. I would love to see him on this team. He's big, he plays a Scott Stevens game for nearly 30 minutes, he's got a terrific shot that he uses on the Carolina PP, and most importantly he always makes a great first pass. I'd really like Brisebois to waive his bloody NO Trade clause and stop taking up this team's payroll money which I would imagine Hill would be happy to play for. It would be a 100% raise from his current $2 mill salary.

Every team wants a powerforward with good hands. We need him to play left wing on the 2nd line. Chicago just so happens to have a 6'6 235 pounder that fits that description. Even better, he's an RFA making 3.25 mill this year. As a team still in its early stages of rebuilding, I think a prospect and a pick trade or even two prospects for such a talented player like Daze would entice Chicago to make a deal. I could see Hainsey and Hossa go, or Perez and a 1st rounder.
Like I said in another posting, skilled powerforwards of Daze's size don't come around too often ie Lecavalier, Thornton, Bertuzzi. And we certainly dont have anyone in our prospects that compares to him and the game he brings.

As for our forward prospects that should make the team next year: Higgins, Perez, Plekanec, Hossa. i see no problem with them playing on the third or fourth line and being brought along slowly like Burns did with Thornton in Boston.

Ive never done this, but I'd love to see these lines next year

Kovalev-Koivu-Zednik
Daze-RIbeiro-Ryder
Bulis-Dowd-Ward
Higgins-Begin-Hossa/Plekanec/Perez/Sundstrom (if he's still around)

Markov-Hill
Souray-Komi
Rivet-Hainsey

7th man Bouillon
Looks pretty sweet! Ward looks like the only "weakness" in a crazy good 4 lines! I wonder what we'd really have to give up to get them. I love that D, too.

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04-25-2004, 07:17 AM
  #3
SwiftyHab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
Looks pretty sweet! Ward looks like the only "weakness" in a crazy good 4 lines! I wonder what we'd really have to give up to get them. I love that D, too.
I really feel bad for Ward, if he wasn't so injury prone (no way Id shake his hand if I see him, an Acme Piano would fall on my head for sure) his development may have turned out different. Its a shame because he's got a power forward's stride, he can hit, he is very responsible defensively, and he'll go to the net. He just has poor hands, no shot, and can't pass. So who says he cant start on the 3rd line next year and either improve or be replaced by a prospect playing on the fourth line midway through the season.

As for getting Daze, I would assume that it would be incredibly hard, but Chicago is a mess right now to quote Pierre McGuire. Most of their players are in the early 20s, and Daze is now 28 and the highest paid player of a team that may compete if it gets its act together in 2-3 years when Daze will be set to be a UFA. If Daze asks for a pay raise of 4 mill this year, I would think that Chicago may be tempted to get a few other players in their early twenties that can help build their team in 2-3 years. ie. 2 of either Hossa, Hainsey, Plek, Perez, Urqhart, or a 1st rounder.
I would think that Higgins or Kat-Stevens are untouchables.

The second, more controversial option is to make Ribs available to the Hawks for Daze and give his spot to a prospect, maybe Higgins, the Plec, Hossa, or try all three and see who fits. Either way, gimme, gimme, gimme.

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04-25-2004, 08:05 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwiftyHab
Sean Hill...
I like Hill. I would never compare him to Scott Stevens, however, but I would count him as a good step towards building a better defense. He would be a good short-term addition until we can find or develop some better guys. He wouldn't be a saviour, but he would a tremendous improvement on Brisebois, for sure.

Quote:
Every team wants a powerforward with good hands...Daze
No thanks. To me, Daze is Pierre Dagenais on steroids. And his health is a huge question mark, he's a Nieuwendyk-level health risk already. He can score modestly, but he will be even less physical than he was, if you can imagine that. Nossir, I would lump Daze squarely into the Teemu Selanne category of absolutely no interest here.

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04-25-2004, 08:53 AM
  #5
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Are you you looking for a one or two year contender of 8-10 year contender? Bringing guys in means we lose young talent. For example, Hossa and Hainsey will have to be exposed this year in the waiver draft if you bring in new talent.

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04-25-2004, 09:02 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwiftyHab
Every team wants a powerforward with good hands. We need him to play left wing on the 2nd line. Chicago just so happens to have a 6'6 235 pounder that fits that description. Even better, he's an RFA making 3.25 mill this year. As a team still in its early stages of rebuilding, I think a prospect and a pick trade or even two prospects for such a talented player like Daze would entice Chicago to make a deal. I could see Hainsey and Hossa go, or Perez and a 1st rounder.
In your second post, you're talking about Ward being an injury player, yet you rave about Dazé, a player that can't play more than 15 games a year because of his unbelievable number of injuries. No way I'd want this guy with the Habs knowing his health precedents. People talk about Koivu being injury prone.. well that's nothing when you look at Daze.

Also, there's no way I'd trade Perezhogin and a 1st for him, let alone Perezhogin.

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04-25-2004, 09:51 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien

No thanks. To me, Daze is Pierre Dagenais on steroids. And his health is a huge question mark, he's a Nieuwendyk-level health risk already. He can score modestly, but he will be even less physical than he was, if you can imagine that. Nossir, I would lump Daze squarely into the Teemu Selanne category of absolutely no interest here.
Basically took the words out of my mouth.

Daze would also be a HUGE risk to take. No thanks.

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04-25-2004, 10:07 AM
  #8
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We don't need Daze...he have back problem that don't seem to want to heal. He's not a power foward and I don't think it's a good idea to give some good prospects to land him.

For Hill, I don't think he will play anywhere else than Carolina. At the trade deadline, he wasen't high on the idea to be trade to a contender team so I think he will resign with the Huricans. I don't think he's what we need and he's not a number 1 D. Let's give a chance to the young player who are waiting for a spot in Montreal!

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04-25-2004, 10:35 AM
  #9
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That's a huge risk(throwing names around like Hainsey,Hossa,Perez,1st rounder)for a guy with a brittle back.

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04-25-2004, 10:50 AM
  #10
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You would actually offer Hossa,Hainsey or Perez+1st for Daze? Please! he isn't good!
He sucks, he is always injured and he shys from physical contact even if he is 6'6.. he is basically like Dagenais.

Now we have a lot of guys that can fill the 2nd line next year:
-Marcel Hossa ->Did very well with Ribeiro and Ryder
-Andrei Kostsitsyn
-Alexander Perezhogin
-Tomas Plekanec
-Christopher Higgins
or you can trade a couple with ur 1st to land a top 3 pick.

For defense, we don't need Sean Hill even if he brings leadership and blablabla.. and the fact that you are willing to pay him 4 M is ridiculous!

Markov is a #1 Defenseman
Souray is a top 4, could be #1 if he is healthy
Komisarek is getting up there..played 19 Min in Game 7
Rivet is top 4, he is solid with mean streak and he is a leader
Ron Hainsey is another top 4 defenseman who has a better shot then Hill on the PP
Brisebois loves the Habs, he was a +19 this year..wouldn't mind trading him but wouldn't mind keeping him either.
#7: Quintal,Bouillon

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Old
04-25-2004, 11:08 AM
  #11
SwiftyHab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahan
In your second post, you're talking about Ward being an injury player, yet you rave about Dazé, a player that can't play more than 15 games a year because of his unbelievable number of injuries. No way I'd want this guy with the Habs knowing his health precedents. People talk about Koivu being injury prone.. well that's nothing when you look at Daze.

Also, there's no way I'd trade Perezhogin and a 1st for him, let alone Perezhogin.
I really don't like to dig up the research to prove my points, I do enough of that in school, but let's take a look at his stats.

CAREER STATISTICS
YR TM GP G A PTS +/- PIM SOG SPCT PPG PPA SHG SHA GWG GTG
94-95 Chi 4 1 1 2 2 2 1 100.0 0 0 0 0 0 0
95-96 Chi 80 30 23 53 16 18 167 18.0 2 4 0 0 2 0
96-97 Chi 71 22 19 41 -4 16 176 12.5 11 4 0 0 4 0
97-98 Chi 80 31 11 42 4 22 216 14.4 10 2 0 0 7 1
98-99 Chi 72 22 20 42 -13 22 189 11.6 8 9 0 0 2 3
99-00 Chi 59 23 13 36 -16 28 143 16.1 6 5 0 1 1 1
00-01 Chi 79 33 24 57 1 16 205 16.1 9 3 1 3 8 2
01-02 Chi 82 38 32 70 17 36 264 14.4 12 13 0 0 5 1
02-03 Chi 54 22 22 44 10 14 170 12.9 3 5 0 0 5 0
03-04 Chi 19 4 7 11 -7 0 76 5.3 1 3 0 0 0 0
GP G A PTS +/- PIM SOG SPCT PPG PPA SHG SHA GWG GTG
Total 600 226 172 398 10 174 1607 14.1 62 48 1 4 34 8

If we start counting from his rookie season in 95-96, and include his back injury and subsequent surgery which kept him out of the lineup last year for 20+ games going into this season for another 63 games, he still only missed 142 games out of a possible 732 over 9 seasons. Thats not great but its also not bad considering that 1 major injury took up 83 consecutive games of his 142 absentees. I'm not sure what the standard amongst players is, but there are not many Mark Recchi Ironmen out there, and if that back is fully healed (BIG IF, I know) then Daze, IMO, and I would assume comparatively, is not a giant injury risk. But again that depends on the current status of his back.

Secondly, although we have a deep prospect pool comapred to other teams, we have a lot of players that are slated for the same role. Daze has established himself at the NHL level as a dangerous power forward, with good hands, who skates well, and goes to the net. He's also very difficult to contain when he's on his game.
Every team needs atleast one powerforward that can establish a good forecheck, cause a turnover in the offensive zone and be able to capitalize on that scoring chance. Getting that all in one package is extremely rare, and every GM is already looking for that type of player in the draft. IMO Daze is comparable to where Bertuzzi was 3 years ago when he was just starting to score more consistently and then broke out on a line with Naslund.

And to address the long-term rebuilding plan. Daze is still only 28. He'll be a great player for at least 6-8 more years. I think our future starts next year when will be certain playoff contenders, and the following year or the one after that when we should be considered a Stanley Cup contender from the start of the season.

Currently, in our prospect pool there are too many players that are slotted for similar roles. Beyond Hossa who still has many question marks, there is not 1 can't miss power forward in the bunch like a Daze, or Stall, or Nash, Lecavalier, Thornton, Bertuzzi.... Even If Kat-Stevens does pan out to be a poor man's Pavel Bure, I haven't heard any good comments about his willingness to go into the corners and outwork anybody. All that Ive been hearing up until now is that he's dangerous in the middle of the ice, but backs away from challenges and doesnt fight through checks. Higgins on the other hand thrives in the corners, is extremely strong but doesnt have the superstar offensive skills or the size to match up to a Nash, Daze, Stall type powerforward. Other than Pleks improved defense, he and Perez are similar players, average size, shifty forwards with good hands.

I see no problem in getting rid of one of them for a Daze, but then again, thats only my extremely elaborative and long opinion. Now lets see the banana dance

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04-25-2004, 12:03 PM
  #12
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I must say that is quite an excellent post swifty hab.

However, ONE problem with Daze's back and his career is over. He is still a huge risk. I don't think I would trade any prospects for him. The highest I would trade for him would be a third rounder for Daze and a conditional pick. If Daze plays less than a full season in MTL due to injuries and he must retire have Chicago switch back a low pick. I know CHI wouldn't do it, but we are at a stage in development where we CAN NOT allow for any mistakes with personnel and player organization. Daze would be too much of a risk for me.

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04-25-2004, 12:12 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwiftyHab
If we start counting from his rookie season in 95-96, and include his back injury and subsequent surgery which kept him out of the lineup last year for 20+ games going into this season for another 63 games, he still only missed 142 games out of a possible 732 over 9 seasons. Thats not great but its also not bad considering that 1 major injury took up 83 consecutive games of his 142 absentees. I'm not sure what the standard amongst players is, but there are not many Mark Recchi Ironmen out there, and if that back is fully healed (BIG IF, I know) then Daze, IMO, and I would assume comparatively, is not a giant injury risk. But again that depends on the current status of his back.
He may have only missed 142 games in his career, but 91 of those have been in the last 2 seasons. He isn't healthy and is getting any younger or better, his back would be brittle in the East.

I would rather see a young 21 or 22 year old player busting his butt off scoring 10-15 goals as a rookie than seeing Daze score 10-15 goals in 50 games played because of another back injury. It all comes down to youth, money and the future...Daze's name cannot be included in any of those words when it comes to building a winner.

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04-25-2004, 12:52 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwiftyHab
Every team wants a powerforward with good hands. We need him to play left wing on the 2nd line. Chicago just so happens to have a 6'6 235 pounder that fits that description. Even better, he's an RFA making 3.25 mill this year. As a team still in its early stages of rebuilding, I think a prospect and a pick trade or even two prospects for such a talented player like Daze would entice Chicago to make a deal. I could see Hainsey and Hossa go, or Perez and a 1st rounder.
Like I said in another posting, skilled powerforwards of Daze's size don't come around too often ie Lecavalier, Thornton, Bertuzzi. And we certainly dont have anyone in our prospects that compares to him and the game he brings.

Daze a powerforward? :lol :lol C'mon this guy is soft as it gets and is injury prone. No thanks.

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04-25-2004, 01:32 PM
  #15
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Dagenais = Daze

They are both similar players..both have good hands and can score goals but both lack physical involvement yet they are giants.

Dags isn't injury prone but Daze is faster so ....


I ratehr have Hossa in there..6'2..good speed..good hands..good passer..goes in the corners.

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04-25-2004, 01:42 PM
  #16
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I have a trade idea, if you really want Daze with our team (i dont).

Dagenais + 2nd pick vs Daze

we get rid of dagenais (oh yeah!) and we risk a 2nd pick (no big deal)
But i would prefer using our farm to fill the spot in our lineup. It would be a lot wiser than land Daze, a high maintenance big guy.

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