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ATD8/ML8/AAA8 The Undrafted Players Thread (arguably Top 1000 All Time)

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Old
02-25-2008, 11:06 PM
  #26
MXD
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As does D-Men Gaston Gingras... Not a very long career, but DAMN... that guy COULD indeed skate. Cup winner in 1986. 235 pts in 476 games. Was a Baby Bull.

As does another former Habs, Jean-Jacques Daigneault. Extremely important member of the '93 Habs Cup. Maybe the biggest IT logger of that team amongst D-Men. (at least, that I can remember of). 899 games, 250 pts. Game 6, 1987. 10 Teams.

If not picked, D-Men Greg De Vries deserves a spot in this thread as well.

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02-25-2008, 11:11 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
I never liked Zamuner and the collective huh? at his team canada selection proved significant as he faded away instead of rose to fame. Eagles i was always eh about, took him for a scrub filler, nothing remarkable. Aucoin was never top-6 in the NHL, except in the minds of some fellow Canucks fans. Top-30 for a while, yeah.


All shortlisted guys I was hoping some team would pick.

Didn't know about #99 Joe Lamb. Nice.


Re: Zamuner: I was one of the "huh"'s too. Still, as the years went by I came to terms with it.

Eagles: I think the length of time he lasted showed he was more than a scrub, but yeah, when we get to him, we're really reaching.

Aucoin: maybe I was exaggerating, but top-10 isn't a stretch. For a few years, he was one of the best. In 01-02 he was 8th in norris voting, and in 03-04 he was 5th.

Aucoin I stand by for sure. Eagles and Zamuner, I'll take them down if you stop and think for just a second and then confirm with me that there is no way they're feasible 3rd/4th liners/penalty killers in the MLD.

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02-25-2008, 11:17 PM
  #28
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Wow, Lamb was a beast. 5-10 and 190 in those days was HUGE.

As for coaches, I have thought of four from the NHL that lasted a long time and posted a lot of wins:

John Muckler 648-276-288-84
Sid Abel 964-382-427-155
Joel Quenneville 675-350-239-86
Bob Berry 860-384-355-121

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02-25-2008, 11:32 PM
  #29
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Zaumner was the best defensive LW left on my list. I wouldn't pick a defensive specialist in this, though. He was probably one of the top five or so defensive forwards in the league from 1993 to 1998, but he was shafted in the Selke voting because that's when voters were looking at an offensive player who backchecks. (The 1995-96 Selke vote might be the biggest joke for any award in NHL history). Jere Lehtinen and Mike Peca would have never won their Selkes if they had to face those voting standards.

If I had to pick a checking centre, I'd go with a personal favourite: Bobby Bassen. Ask Roenick how good Bassen was. Bassen was terrific defensively.

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02-26-2008, 10:43 PM
  #30
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When Andre Pronovost came out of junior hockey to join the Montreal Canadiens in 1956, the team had just started their record-setting string of league championships. Stocked with veteran talent like Rocket Richard and Elmer Lach, the club had recently initiated a youth movement that brought Jacques Plante, Dickie Moore, and Claude Provost into the mix. Pronovost joined the club shortly thereafter, teaming up with Provost and Phil Goyette to form the club's third-line defensive unit.

Over the course of the next four seasons, Pronovost and the Canadiens won four straight Stanley Cups. The team was poised to make it five in a row when he got the shock of his life: he'd just been shoved into a free-fall from the pinnacle of the league to the basement-dwelling Boston Bruins in 1960. The impact of the trade brought thoughts of retirement and the possibility of returning to school. But Bruins' coach Lynn Patrick convinced Pronovost to give Boston a go.

His Beantown excursion lasted about two years at which time he was traded to the Detroit Red Wings, a club in the hunt for the Stanley Cup. By then, as a veteran, Pronovost decided to revisit the issue of a salary increase, a concern he'd first raised with the Canadiens. As a new recruit, Montreal's GM Frank Selke assured Pronovost that he'd receive an increase in pay only after he'd gained some experience in the league. With that experience then firmly under his belt, he approached the Wings' management for his payoff. But for all of his trials, he received nothing more than a stern warning that there were always two younger players around who could be had for the same price.

Pronovost bit his tongue and continued to perform his defensive duties for the Wings as they came within a hair's breadth of winning the Stanley Cup in 1964.

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02-27-2008, 09:30 PM
  #31
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Was every single HHOF player drafted?

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02-27-2008, 10:37 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Was every single HHOF player drafted?
No....

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Old
02-27-2008, 11:10 PM
  #33
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Right-winger Modere "Mud" Bruneteau was a nifty offensive player who ensured himself a permanent place in NHL folklore by ending the longest game in playoff history in 1936. In addition to his overtime heroics, he registered three 20-goal seasons and played on a trio of Stanley Cup championships in Motown.

The native of St. Boniface, Manitoba played two years with the Winnipeg Knights of Columbus then a year with the senior Falcons before turning pro in the IAHL with the Detroit Olympics in 1934-35. He split the 1935-36 season between the minors and the NHL then helped the Wings win the Stanley Cup. In the opening game of the semi-final series versus the Montreal Maroons he scored at 16:30 of the sixth overtime period to end the longest game ever played. Bruneteau's goal was not a classic; rather, it was an ordinary shot more indicative of the fatigue on both teams.

Bruneteau played solid two-way hockey to help the Wings repeat as Cup champions in 1937, the first U.S. club to do so. By the early 1940s, the clever winger took on a more offensive role with the club. He formed a productive line with Syd Howe and Carl Liscombe and helped Detroit win the Stanley Cup in 1943. The next season, he set a personal high with 35 goals and served as the team's co-captain with Flash Hollett. He lost his position by the late '40s and ended spending his last two seasons back in the USHL with the Omaha Knights. After retiring as a player in 1948, he spent a year behind the Knight's bench before leaving the game for good.

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02-27-2008, 11:14 PM
  #34
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During his youth, Colin Patterson was not a single-minded lad with hockey as his sole obsession. To the contrary, he was more noteworthy on his school grounds playing lacrosse. He eventually developed into a world-class player, representing Canada at the world championships in Baltimore where he won a bronze medal.

But a rink in the backyard was still very much an important part of Patterson's development. He enjoyed playing hockey, but he was never starry-eyed about the experience. In his later teens, he attended Clarkson College where he played hockey on the side while working on his degree in marketing and management. His course, however, was turned towards the NHL when the Calgary Flames sent a scout to look at a fellow teammate, Jim Laing. When the scout made his report to the Flames, he was at least as enamoured with Patterson as he was with his original quarry. So, Patterson completed his degree and then signed as a free agent with the Flames in 1983.

Over the next ten years, he established himself as a defensive specialist, skating, for the most part, alongside Doug Risebrough and Richard Kromm. Patterson rarely strayed from his defensive role, one he fell into with ease, having learned the skill during his days as a lacrosse player.

His greatest career moment came when the Flames won the Stanley Cup on Montreal Forum ice in 1989. He lasted one more season with the club before injuries sidelined him for the entire 1990-91 campaign. His career revival brought him to the Buffalo Sabres where he toiled through two additional seasons, retiring in 1993.

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Old
02-28-2008, 10:34 PM
  #35
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Both two guys that crossed my mind. Good work Johnny!

Which hall of fame players have not been mentioned yet? Surely they are worth a mention.

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Old
02-29-2008, 07:14 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny O View Post
Right-winger Modere "Mud" Bruneteau was a nifty offensive player who ensured himself a permanent place in NHL folklore by ending the longest game in playoff history in 1936. In addition to his overtime heroics, he registered three 20-goal seasons and played on a trio of Stanley Cup championships in Motown.

The native of St. Boniface, Manitoba played two years with the Winnipeg Knights of Columbus then a year with the senior Falcons before turning pro in the IAHL with the Detroit Olympics in 1934-35. He split the 1935-36 season between the minors and the NHL then helped the Wings win the Stanley Cup. In the opening game of the semi-final series versus the Montreal Maroons he scored at 16:30 of the sixth overtime period to end the longest game ever played. Bruneteau's goal was not a classic; rather, it was an ordinary shot more indicative of the fatigue on both teams.

Bruneteau played solid two-way hockey to help the Wings repeat as Cup champions in 1937, the first U.S. club to do so. By the early 1940s, the clever winger took on a more offensive role with the club. He formed a productive line with Syd Howe and Carl Liscombe and helped Detroit win the Stanley Cup in 1943. The next season, he set a personal high with 35 goals and served as the team's co-captain with Flash Hollett. He lost his position by the late '40s and ended spending his last two seasons back in the USHL with the Omaha Knights. After retiring as a player in 1948, he spent a year behind the Knight's bench before leaving the game for good.
Wow, Mud never got picked. What a shame. I had him on my list but just assumed he was already taken.

Good work Johnny,

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Old
03-01-2008, 12:16 AM
  #37
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a centre who played for seven NHL teams and two WHA clubs, nicknamed for his tenacious checking

Ted "The Tic" Hampson



"Broke into the NHL in 1959/60... in a defensive, checking role... He was about 5'6 in stature but 6'5 in heart...
He never quit. You could knock him down, but he'd get right up and go faster"
http://books.google.ca/books?id=1WHN...tNP5Owko&hl=en

Quote:
What he lacked in size, he more than made up for with quickness and agility on the ice,
making him the perfect hound for checking other team's top offensive threats
http://www.legendsofhockey.net:8080/...p?player=12836

Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy (1969)
NHL all-star game (1969)
NHL Oakland Seals captain 1968-71
WHA Paul Deneau Trophy (Most Gentlemanly Player) in 1973

"a good guy and a hard worker... I could use him on the powerplay, penalty kill and doubleshift him and he'd never say a word. He was a good leader, too."
http://books.google.ca/books?id=1WHN...tNP5Owko&hl=en

353 points in 676 NHL games with a mere 94 PIM
203 points in 305 WHA games with 51 PIM
two NHL club records: most points in a season by an Oakland Seal (75 pts in 68/69), most career assists as a Seal (123)



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Old
03-01-2008, 01:16 AM
  #38
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This right wing I almost picked and was hoping another team was gonna

Grant "Knobby" Warwick



NHL Calder Trophy (1942)
Allan Cup champion (1954)
player-coach of the 1955 Penticton Vees world championship team over the Soviets

Quote:
played a robust and efficient brand of offensive hockey
http://books.google.ca/books?id=wpbL...Xb4VUm7o&hl=en


289 points in 395 NHL games (7 seasons of 15+ goals, 3 of 20+ goals)
in NHL all-star game (1947)
scored 233 points as a NYR, the 2nd most prolific scorer for the New York Rangers over the decade of the 1940s

Quote:
The year before in Stockholm, the Soviets, competing in their first world tournament, had dealt a huge blow to Canadian hockey pride by trouncing the Toronto East York Lyndhursts 7-2 to win the gold medal. Penticton played almost a perfect game, shutting out the defending champions 5-0, and the Warwick brothers, who grew up in Regina, Saskatchewan, became the toast not only of Penticton, British Columbia, but of all Canada.
http://www.legendsofhockey.net:8080/...p?player=14642

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Old
03-01-2008, 01:40 AM
  #39
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Chris "Pepe" Bordeleau


504 points in 412 WHA games (50 pts in 53 WHA playoff games)
8th all-time in WHA scoring
103 points in 205 NHL games (11 points in 19 NHL playoff games)

he centred the Winnipeg Jets' "The Luxury Line" all the way to the cup finals in their first WHA season
Quote:
Precision-quick... ex-Black Hawk Bordeleau scored four goals, assisted on another and blew a breakaway as the Jets defeated New York Raiders before approximately 6,300 fans witnessing the debut of the World Hockey Association in Gotham City.
http://www.curtiswalker.com/jets/bla...past.aspx?id=4

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03-01-2008, 02:06 AM
  #40
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I had a good laugh when deciding between Salo and this netminder in the draft as both have had good careers and stellar international accomplishments yet both are remembered for a high-profile upset loss.

Vladimir Myshkin


Quote:
One of the few Jewish players to play for the Soviets, Myshkin was the back-up to legendary netminder Vladislav Tretiak. His achievements include the following ones:

Myshkin is six-time World and European champion (1979, 1981, 1983, 1986, 1989, 1990)
On February 11, 1979 he was the surprise choice of Coach Viktor Tikhonov to start in the deciding game in the Challenge Cup Tournament against the National Hockey League all stars. Myshkin responded with a sterling effort shutting out the NHL stars 6-0 to win the Challenge Cup for the Soviet National team.
Myshkin replaced Tretiak after the first period in the famous "Miracle on Ice" game versus Team USA in the medal round of the 1980 Winter Olympics. He faced only 2 shots in the 2nd period, and stopped them both, but gave up 2 goals in the third scored by Americans Mark Johnson and Mike Eruzione. Team USA won the game 4-3 and went on to capture the gold medal with the Soviets taking the silver. As the Americans celebrated wildly and Myshkin waited politely with his teammates to congratulate them he was consoled by Tretiak.
Won the 1981 Canada Cup with the USSR team.
Won the gold medal at the 1984 Winter Olympics with the Soviet team.
In his first major event as starting goaltender of the Soviet National Team, he led the Soviets to a perfect 5-0 record in the round robin of the 1984 Canada Cup before being defeated by Canada 3-2 in overtime in the semifinals. Nonetheless, Myshkin is named to the tournament all-star team for his heroics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Myshkin

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Old
03-01-2008, 02:52 AM
  #41
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I was stubbornly waiting to see if someone would draft this great Soviet, strong and fast-skating 5'11, 195-lbs left winger

Sergei Kapustin



World Championships all-star (1978, 1981)
1976 Olympic Gold medalist
1981 Canada Cup champion
6-time World champion

10 goals in 10 games at the 1974 World Championships (Gold)
10 goals, 13 points in 10 games at the 1975 World Championships (Gold)
9 goals, 16 points in 10 games at the 1977 World Championships
11 points in 10 games at the 1978 World Championships (Gold)
6 goals, 7 points in 8 games at the 1979 World Championships (Gold)
8 points in 8 games at the 1981 World Championships (Gold)
12 points in 10 games at the 1982 World Championships (Gold)
4 goals, 7 points in 10 games at the 1983 World Championships

6 points in 5 games at the 1976 Canada Cup
4 points in 6 games at the 1981 Canada Cup



Quote:
in the second game of the 1979 Challenge Cup against the NHL all-stars... the Soviets rebounded from a 4-2 deficit and marched to a 5-4 win. Sergei Kapustin's two goals paced the Soviet comeback
http://www.hhof.com/HTML/GamesSummaryCHCUP1979.shtml

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Old
03-01-2008, 03:21 AM
  #42
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There are other accomplished Soviets worthy of selection in any all-time draft of the top 500 to 1000 players in hockey history. For example...

6'2, 209 lbs Viktor Zhluktov tied the tourney scoring lead in the 1976 Canada Cup with 5 goals, 9 points in 5 games. He centred one of the great Soviet lines of the 1970's and on the voted Best Soviet Line of 1981. He was a national team regular between 1975-1985. 1976 Olympic gold medalist, 4-time World champion, 1979 Challenge Cup winner, and holds the Canada Cup (World Cup of Hockey) record for most points in a game with 6 against Finland in 1976. He was not known to be as technically skilled as his linemates, and certainly wasn't fast, but the Soviet hall of famer's size and physical play up the middle was effective.

Two-time Olympic gold medalist Slava Bykov was a skilled passing centre on many world championship teams but he became a Swiss league star instead of jumping to the NHL in the early 90's so there is a question mark there.

Nikolai Makarov, Sergei's older brother, is top-5 all-time in Soviet blueline goal scoring but the 1981 Soviet Hall of Fame inductee played the majority of his career on a non-Moscow-based team, the Traktor Chelyabinsk, and didn't join the national team until 1978, after his younger brother was visited by Kharlamov and backed by Tikhonov - against pressure of tradition - and included on the Soviet top squad despite no history of training in the nation's capital. A worthy footnote in hockey history in the what-if dep't (what if the Makarov brothers had been discovered when the elder one was much earlier in his career).


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03-01-2008, 04:10 AM
  #43
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Another player I didn't draft on principle, as I'm convinced the 6'3, 190lbs winger who scored 15 shorthanded goals as a Sabre during his aggressive forechecking days is seriously underappreciated, known to disappear but is equally as hot with clutch play when it matters most

Miroslav Satan



2002 World Championships Gold, 13 pts in 9 games
2000 World Championships Top Player of the Tourney with 10 goals in 9 games

2003 World Championships 10 points in 9 games
2004 World Championships 8 points in 9 games
2007 World Championships 8 points in 7 games

9 goals in 8 games in the 1994 Olympics

6-time regular season scoring leader for the Buffalo Sabres
40-goal scorer in 1999 when his Sabres went to the Stanley Cup finals
NHL all-star game (2000, 2002)

335 NHL goals, 679 points in 930 NHL games ( a decent 38 pts in 56 NHL playoff games)
113 NHL powerplay goals
47 NHL game-winning goals (including an amazing 32 GWGs in 7 full Sabres seasons)


3rd best in the NHL in 2005/06 with a 7-in-10 record in the shootout

Recorded three straight game-winning goals this season on 11/3 vs. PIT, 11/6 vs. NYR and 11/10 vs. NJD. It was the first time an Islander accomplished the feat since Bryan Trottier in January of 1982.


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Old
03-01-2008, 12:13 PM
  #44
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All great ideas, guys. I was thinking about Satan too. He's definitely one of the leading point-getters among the undrafted players.

I did some research and there are 9 hall of famers not drafted. What's holding these guys back?

Jimmy Gardner LW
Shorty Green F
Tom Hooper F
Steamer Maxwell Rover
Frank Rankin Rover
George Richardson D
Oliver Seibert C
Harry E. Watson C
Frederick Whitcroft Rover

As you may have guessed, they are all from the pre-NHL days. Their bios on legendsofhockey are quite impressive and I think they appear every bit as worthy as celebrated picks like Harry Trihey and his shamrocks.

The three whose only listed position is Rover may be hurt by the fact that there is no such thing as a rover now, but wouldn't there still be a place for them as forwards, even on a MLD team? The fact that they all made the HHOF as players speaks to their greatness in their time, so if they truly don't belong here I am interested to hear why.

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03-01-2008, 12:26 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
All great ideas, guys. I was thinking about Satan too. He's definitely one of the leading point-getters among the undrafted players.

I did some research and there are 9 hall of famers not drafted. What's holding these guys back?

Jimmy Gardner LW
Shorty Green F
Tom Hooper F
Steamer Maxwell Rover
Frank Rankin Rover
George Richardson D
Oliver Seibert C
Harry E. Watson C
Frederick Whitcroft Rover

As you may have guessed, they are all from the pre-NHL days. Their bios on legendsofhockey are quite impressive and I think they appear every bit as worthy as celebrated picks like Harry Trihey and his shamrocks.

The three whose only listed position is Rover may be hurt by the fact that there is no such thing as a rover now, but wouldn't there still be a place for them as forwards, even on a MLD team? The fact that they all made the HHOF as players speaks to their greatness in their time, so if they truly don't belong here I am interested to hear why.
I came across this guy in my research. I thought he was already drafted for sure. Father of Earl, I think he could even make the main draft as a 13th forward.

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03-01-2008, 01:31 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
The fact that they all made the HHOF as players speaks to their greatness in their time, so if they truly don't belong here I am interested to hear why.
They didn't belong, because I was not drafting!

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03-01-2008, 02:54 PM
  #47
VanIslander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I did some research and there are 9 hall of famers not drafted. What's holding these guys back?

Jimmy Gardner LW
Shorty Green F
Tom Hooper F
Steamer Maxwell Rover
Frank Rankin Rover
George Richardson D
Oliver Seibert C
Harry E. Watson C
Frederick Whitcroft Rover
Great research seventieslord.

Watson and Maxwell were on my list. But I passed on Gardner as one of those builder/player picks, important in creating the Montreal Canadiens as a franchise and as a name, even coaching it afterwards. Though he did captain the team in 1913-15 and won the Stanley Cup four years before that, during the 1900-1910 first decade of the century.

I came across Tom Hooper during the ATD but forgot all about him during the ML and AAA drafts. The hero of the upstart Kenora Thistles who challenged the Silver Seven for the Stanley Cup and took it away from the Montreal Wanderers. He then joined the Wanderers for three of their cup defenses in 1908. I didn't draft him because he seemed more remembered as a representative of the little Kenora team David vs .Goliath storyline, and the fact that he had under two years experience outside of that small town.

George Richardson was a WWI war hero (read: died in combat) and so that boosted his worth in the eyes of the HHOF committee it seems, remembered as a hero "in sport and war". Three-time university champion, he was "a clean, gentlemanly player, a fine stickhandler, and prolific scorer" on left wing (NOT defense) and kuddos to him for impressive goal totals in matches against the McGill Redmen and Ottawa Silver Seven. A three-year OHA champion as well, the star of Kingston for sure.

Frank Rankin played amateur hockey for the St. Michael's Majors, twice making the Allan Cup finals but never winning the cup. He is remembered for scoring 20 goals in 5 games, and for later coaching the 1924 Olympic gold medal team. dunno what to make of him.

I had no idea about Shorty Green, the first to ever score a goal in Madison Square Gardens! as captain of the Hamilton Tigers club that became the New York Americans, won the 1919 Allan Cup, known as "small, tough, and aggressive" and lookin' like Daniel Day Lewis:


I also am happy to here learn about Frederick Whitcroft, two-time top scorer of the Alberta pro league as an Edmonton Eskimo, he was renowned for his talent, getting very good money contracts to play short term for Kenora and Renfrew. He "possessed a solid, compact frame that would have better suited a defenseman, but he also possessed great speed, on-ice agility, and a gift for nifty stickhandling-- the tools of a prolific scorer. As a result, Whitcroft often played the middle ice positions of cover point and rover." A star of his era but not a guy who transcended the game of his time, with limits in his perfomances and a lack of gaudy play of some other HHOFers of his era. After he retired he was president of amateur hockey in Vancouver.


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03-01-2008, 04:05 PM
  #48
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I believe Shorty Green is better remembered in the Hall of Fame for being a part of the players' labour movement in the twenties, especially for his involvement in the strike of 1925 to get pay for playing in the post-season.

His playing career wasn't particularly noteworthy, at least in terms of getting HoF recognition, IMO.

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03-01-2008, 06:36 PM
  #49
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Great research seventieslord.

Watson and Maxwell were on my list. But I passed on Gardner as one of those builder/player picks, important in creating the Montreal Canadiens as a franchise and as a name, even coaching it afterwards. Though he did captain the team in 1913-15 and won the Stanley Cup four years before that, during the 1900-1910 first decade of the century.

I came across Tom Hooper during the ATD but forgot all about him during the ML and AAA drafts. The hero of the upstart Kenora Thistles who challenged the Silver Seven for the Stanley Cup and took it away from the Montreal Wanderers. He then joined the Wanderers for three of their cup defenses in 1908. I didn't draft him because he seemed more remembered as a representative of the little Kenora team David vs .Goliath storyline, and the fact that he had under two years experience outside of that small town.

George Richardson was a WWI war hero (read: died in combat) and so that boosted his worth in the eyes of the HHOF committee it seems, remembered as a hero "in sport and war". Three-time university champion, he was "a clean, gentlemanly player, a fine stickhandler, and prolific scorer" on left wing (NOT defense) and kuddos to him for impressive goal totals in matches against the McGill Redmen and Ottawa Silver Seven. A three-year OHA champion as well, the star of Kingston for sure.

Frank Rankin played amateur hockey for the St. Michael's Majors, twice making the Allan Cup finals but never winning the cup. He is remembered for scoring 20 goals in 5 games, and for later coaching the 1924 Olympic gold medal team. dunno what to make of him.

I had no idea about Shorty Green, the first to ever score a goal in Madison Square Gardens! as captain of the Hamilton Tigers club that became the New York Americans, won the 1919 Allan Cup, known as "small, tough, and aggressive" and lookin' like Daniel Day Lewis:


I also am happy to here learn about Frederick Whitcroft, two-time top scorer of the Alberta pro league as an Edmonton Eskimo, he was renowned for his talent, getting very good money contracts to play short term for Kenora and Renfrew. He "possessed a solid, compact frame that would have better suited a defenseman, but he also possessed great speed, on-ice agility, and a gift for nifty stickhandling-- the tools of a prolific scorer. As a result, Whitcroft often played the middle ice positions of cover point and rover." A star of his era but not a guy who transcended the game of his time, with limits in his perfomances and a lack of gaudy play of some other HHOFers of his era. After he retired he was president of amateur hockey in Vancouver.
Thanks for the extra info! Sounds like there is enough "reasonable doubt" on these guys' greatness to put their MLD suitability into question. That said, I am still quite surprised that as we moved towards the end of the draft, that more people didn't take a flyer on these guys. The fact that they are in the HHOF makes them very easy to find, and easy to justify. Heck, if I could go back, I'd have taken a flyer on a couple of these guys over someone like Rick Nash in the ATD, or over more exotic AAA picks that I was proud to make, like Thornson or Ruzicka.

So, from the sounds of things, these names have been researched by the GMs before and some have been dubbed players with little proven greatness at actually playing hockey and more notoreity due to other factors, and the others that did exhibit some greatness maybe just didn't do so enough. Fair assessment?

I really like the idea of this thread, and previously I went back and read the ATD7 version of this thread just to make sure all the right names were on my radar. I have an idea: to ensure quality and keep the "eliteness" of the list in the top post intact, we merely "nominate" players and someone else has to "second" the nomination for it to be valid. So if I was the only one who thought Raimo Helminen was more than just a scrub, his name would not go up there. Wouldn't be hard to do, and over half the names mentioned so far have been seconded.

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03-01-2008, 06:50 PM
  #50
VanIslander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
I believe Shorty Green is better remembered in the Hall of Fame for being a part of the players' labour movement in the twenties, especially for his involvement in the strike of 1925 to get pay for playing in the post-season.
Really? Some links? I only came across two sites on the guy. So Green is like Hooper and Richardson, acclaimed more for their off-ice accomplishments than their on-ice skill. Though Green was a captain and had grit, two aspects which lend leadership and role player weight on back lines of at least ML draft teams.


Steamer Maxwell also had done alot after he finished playing hockey, as a hockey coach and baseball promoter, an active public figure in sport. However, he earned his nickname of "Steamer" because he had "tremendous" skating ability, and scored a goal a game average over two seasons, winning the Allan Cup in 1915. He was offered a lot of money to turn pro with a couple of teams but turned them down on principle.


He's a what-if pick, a talent who could have done much more but didn't for non-hockey reasons.

Quote:
A true amateur and a deeply principled man, Maxwell left the sport as a player at the young age of 25 when he learned that some of the players on the Monarch team had received gifts and money to play for the team.
http://museevirtuel.ca/pm.php?id=rec...x=88&rd=118336


Certainly Harry E. Watson was draft worthy. "Moose" was a first team all-star in the OHA before WWI and twice again in 1922 and 1923 as he led his team to two Allan Cups, then won the gold medal in the 1924 Olympics, a cakewalk in which he easily scored 37 goals in 5 games against vastly inferior international competition. He turned down several NHL offers, including a huge sum in 1925 of $10,000, opting instead to hang up his skates and join the business world at age 27. He is in the HHOF and the IIHF hall of fame.

.

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