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Old
02-27-2008, 07:52 PM
  #76
Renion
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Originally Posted by CBJ John View Post
What is missing here is the fact that Brule, Fritsche and OKT was an offer that Tampa viewed as "not in the ballpark". It wasn't legit and I tend to agree with them.
If they had been interested in an offer that didn't include a goaltender, they'd have been foolish not to have asked Howson what else he was offering. There's nothing insulting about a Brule, Fritsche and OKT offer.

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02-27-2008, 07:53 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Renion View Post
If they had been interested in an offer that didn't include a goaltender, they'd have been foolish not to have asked Howson what else he was offering. There's nothing insulting about a Brule, Fritsche and OKT offer.
Only if you're drinking the Kool Aid....

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Old
02-27-2008, 07:56 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by CBJ John View Post
Only if you're drinking the Kool Aid....
At the very least, it was a starting point. But come on. You really do think Tampa was so insulted by the offer that they didn't call Howson back because they thought he was yanking their chain?

Of course, we also have to keep in mind that Howson gave them more than one offer initially.

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02-27-2008, 07:56 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by CBJ John View Post
What is missing here is the fact that Brule, Fritsche and OKT was an offer that Tampa viewed as "not in the ballpark". It wasn't legit and I tend to agree with them.
Now that the deal is done it's easy to say that Howson's package wasn't in the "ballpark." It all depends on Tampa wanted out of the deal. If Tampa's main goal was eliminating salary and clearing cap space and building for the future - then the Howson offers were all primo. As it turned out what Tampa wanted was Smith a ready-to-tend goalie and somewhere to dump Holmquist. That's not a deal we could give them.

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Old
02-27-2008, 07:59 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by DougKnowsBest View Post
but doug would of gotten the deal done for Richards . now that i have sat and read what dallas gave up, im amazed.

not all prospect are going to make it. they all have experation dates. maybe im just a fool, but ill take a nhl all star in his prime, over a prospect goalie anyday. Goalie prospect pffft. goalies come and go. they dont all make it, hell most dont make it.

we just passed on a sure thing so we can take a chance on a maybe


so hey scott, next time you sit down at the negotiations table, bring your wife with you would ya. maybe she has some balls
No, it's not a popular opinion ... it's not even particularly coherent.

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02-27-2008, 08:07 PM
  #81
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So DKB....back in the day....why didnt Doug get a deal done for Joe Thornton???? If he was such a deal maker...why couldnt he pull the trigger? Instead he gets Fedorov?? Hummmm...Doug was SWEET.

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Old
02-27-2008, 08:10 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by CBJ John View Post
Only if you're drinking the Kool Aid....
Aren't you the guy who was just criticizing another poster in another thread for criticizing those who complain and yet you don't seem to be able to go a post or two without dropping the Kool Aid insult on someone who dares to disagree with you?

Here's your quote:
Quote:
Stop commenting to ANYONE who disagrees with the moves that the organization made. Let it be. Take a deep breath. It will be OK if someone on an inconsequential hockey board says they disagree....

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Old
02-27-2008, 08:11 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Renion View Post
At the very least, it was a starting point. But come on. You really do think Tampa was so insulted by the offer that they didn't call Howson back because they thought he was yanking their chain?

Of course, we also have to keep in mind that Howson gave them more than one offer initially.
I'm a bit cynical here. I think Howson never intended to make a serious offer for Richards and fully intended to move Foote and Feds in a salary dump because he knew we weren't going to make it....

And THAT....is what really has me upset.

The actual moves and what we got for them...I'm kind of OK with. What I'm not OK with is the fact that I feel like we're the KC Royals of hockey. Are you sure that isn't true?

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Old
02-27-2008, 08:15 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by brianhatesu View Post
I'm just curious, but how what exactly do people consider Doug's bad mistakes.
My Lord...have you ever followed the jackets????

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Old
02-27-2008, 08:17 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by PubOFH View Post
My Lord...have you ever followed the jackets????

That is classic...

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Old
02-27-2008, 08:39 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by CBJ John View Post
I'm a bit cynical here. I think Howson never intended to make a serious offer for Richards and fully intended to move Foote and Feds in a salary dump because he knew we weren't going to make it....

And THAT....is what really has me upset.

The actual moves and what we got for them...I'm kind of OK with. What I'm not OK with is the fact that I feel like we're the KC Royals of hockey. Are you sure that isn't true?
Since you think Howson knew we weren't going to make it, and he couldn't deliver the deal to Tampa they felt they needed - why are you pissed off that Howson then acted with integrity and made the moves that were sensible to make?

You're not making sense.

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Old
02-27-2008, 08:50 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PubOFH View Post
So DKB....back in the day....why didnt Doug get a deal done for Joe Thornton???? If he was such a deal maker...why couldnt he pull the trigger? Instead he gets Fedorov?? Hummmm...Doug was SWEET.
I'm almost positive that Thorton was only made available to the Sharks. I know I've heard several GM's make comments about how the didn't know he was available.

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Old
02-27-2008, 08:59 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PubOFH View Post
My Lord...have you ever followed the jackets????
I think people are giving too much credit to him why the blue jackets are in this mess. It's an expansion franchise. He did what he had to do. He had to overpay people to come here. He made good trades. even the federov trade had good points about. The guy wanted to win and he did things to try to help us win.

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Old
02-27-2008, 09:49 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by darrmd View Post
If Doug was still here we wouldn't have seen a over .500 season so far and 5 points from playoffs. Not saying we are going to make the playoffs, but can we please stop saying "if doug was here" Doug was a cancer to the internal organization, and though he did many good things, he really did much more on the negative side over the years.

In before the lock
exactly bro, you nailed it.

maybe we should have fired Howson on deadline day, re-hired Maclean, fired him today, and retrieve Howson

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Old
02-27-2008, 10:10 PM
  #90
pete goegan
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Originally Posted by CBJ John View Post
I'm a bit cynical here. I think Howson never intended to make a serious offer for Richards and fully intended to move Foote and Feds in a salary dump because he knew we weren't going to make it....

And THAT....is what really has me upset.

The actual moves and what we got for them...I'm kind of OK with. What I'm not OK with is the fact that I feel like we're the KC Royals of hockey. Are you sure that isn't true?

That's amazing...you make up your own version of what's in Howson's head and then get upset about it! You don't need koolaid, you produce your own poison!

And yes, I'm sure we're not the Royals - they've made the playoffs!

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Old
02-27-2008, 10:46 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by PubOFH View Post
So DKB....back in the day....why didnt Doug get a deal done for Joe Thornton???? If he was such a deal maker...why couldnt he pull the trigger? Instead he gets Fedorov?? Hummmm...Doug was SWEET.
doug inquired about thronton. the bees said he wasnt available. then the next day or two they traded him to san jose. as referenced above, other gm's said the same thing


our foote was in the door with tampa. im sure the final deal wasnt dallas's first offer.

when people started pushing chips onto the table howson folded

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Old
02-27-2008, 10:50 PM
  #92
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FYI, on CBC radio there was an interview with Feaster. He stated that they had wanted to get Smith a couple of years back and were unsuccessful. They were now able to get who they wanted all along. Doug would not have got it done. Stop drinking the kool-aid.

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Old
02-27-2008, 11:20 PM
  #93
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what kool aid? im drinkin what im mixin



im sorry i didnt realize that mike smith was the only goalie feaster wanted. im sorry but buuul****


what was he supposed to say. "well we really wanted joe schmo, but could only get mike smith" gm's always talk it up

now, ill entertain the idea that TB was using us to drive up the price for the big D.

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Old
02-27-2008, 11:20 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
Your absolutely right. Doug definitively would have gotten the deal done. He would have overpaid, like he always did in the past, to get a guy he likes. Say this about him, he knew what he wanted and did what it took to get it done.

However, therein lies the problem. He would have overpaid for him. We would have thrown in Mason, Brassard, anything to get his guy (if Richards was a Doug Guy). It would have been celebrated with glee on the boards. Doug would go on the radio, and say that he added a character guy, and talk about the playoffs. But we wouldn't have made the Playoffs. Richards wouldn't be a Fedorov, but he wouldn't be our savior either.

And three years down the road, when Richards leaves the team to sign a mega-contract with another team, Leclaire proves that this season was an aberration, injury-wise, and we're left in the lurch, while Tollefsen and Brule have key roles on a playoff-bound Tampa team which Mason carried to success, we'd be decrying this trade, and be in much the same position that we are in now.

Doug's willingness to get the deal done, while exciting from a fans perspective, caused a lot of problems on this team. We'll never forget Scott Lachance, Todd Marchant, and Luke Richardson. Yes, Doug got them. But he severely overpaid for them, crippling the team long after they were gone.
This is among Sam's best work this season so far... Brilliant post!

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Old
02-28-2008, 03:29 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
And three years down the road, when Richards leaves the team to sign a mega-contract with another team, Leclaire proves that this season was an aberration, injury-wise, and we're left in the lurch, while Tollefsen and Brule have key roles on a playoff-bound Tampa team which Mason carried to success, we'd be decrying this trade, and be in much the same position that we are in now.
You are simply stating worst-case scenario here, nothing more. If a GM decides his moves based on what could happen if everything would go wrong, then he would do nothing. It's just the easy way out.

We can also be crying next season, without a decent #1 center, missing the playoffs again.

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Old
02-28-2008, 03:41 AM
  #96
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You are simply stating worst-case scenario here, nothing more. If a GM decides his moves based on what could happen if everything would go wrong, then he would do nothing. It's just the easy way out.

We can also be crying next season, without a decent #1 center, missing the playoffs again.
Yes, Samkow was stating the worst case scenario ... just like some people were stating the best case scenario where Richards came to Columbus and cured all our offensive ills.

It's called "hyperbole" - illustrative exaggeration and is an effective device used in argument to make a point.

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Old
02-28-2008, 07:33 AM
  #97
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I can't believe there's still some folks out there who support Doug. If Doug MacLean was a Communist dictator, the Politburo would have revolted against him before his five-year plan was finished (edit - too bad Mr. Mac didn't do the same). The CBJ organization needs more Doug MacLean like the world needs more Rosie O'Donnell. Sheesh.


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Old
02-28-2008, 07:54 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by DougKnowsBest View Post
what kool aid? im drinkin what im mixin



im sorry i didnt realize that mike smith was the only goalie feaster wanted. im sorry but buuul****


what was he supposed to say. "well we really wanted joe schmo, but could only get mike smith" gm's always talk it up

now, ill entertain the idea that TB was using us to drive up the price for the big D.
Hey, if you want to ask Feaster himself, feel free. I am just telling you what he said in an interview. While your talking to him, maybe you can start serving him kool-aid as to why Dougy would be the best owner ever.

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Old
02-28-2008, 08:48 AM
  #99
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Why would you mortgage your future for a guy who seems like his best days are behind him, with a fat contract. Who is Richards gonna play with if there are no players to play with? It's not like the CBJ owners spend up to the cap max anyways

Wasn't TB looking for a starting goalie? Look at teams like the NYI, Preds and Atlanta last year who screwed thenselves over with giving away all the propects. Atlanta realized they made the mistake and look at what they got for Hossa. The Pens have all the youth so they could afford to part ways with Armstrong and Espo.

I would rather tank the season at this point, rather than get a pick in the top 10, get one in the top 3 instead.

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Old
02-28-2008, 07:59 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by The Waco Kid View Post
I can't believe there's still some folks out there who support Doug. If Doug MacLean was a Communist dictator, the Politburo would have revolted against him before his five-year plan was finished (edit - too bad Mr. Mac didn't do the same). The CBJ organization needs more Doug MacLean like the world needs more Rosie O'Donnell. Sheesh.
Awesome, simply awesome. The difference is that Lenin and Stalin had their henchmen Dzerzhinsky and Beria to dispose of the opposition. MacLean was pretty much limited to "What do you know about hockey?"

MacLean could have gotten the Richards deal done if he hadn't traded Marc Denis to Tampa originally. So we can blame him for this one too!

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