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That was bush league, Granato.

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Old
04-23-2004, 01:15 AM
  #1
glennzky
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That was bush league, Granato.

I'm very disappointed in the way game 1 ended with all the cheapshots. I thought Granato would have more class and show more respect. Colorado was beaten fair and square and should have moved on. Granato should be suspended just like Sutter was during the regular season for the end of game circus. It was clear what they were up to. And Gratton should be suspended for abuse of an official. The Avalanche antics were straight out of Slapshot (the movie). I know there are those of you who think that is part of the game, but don't count me as one of them. That garbage belongs in the lower leagues where the talent is lacking and they need to sell tickets somehow. The refs let this one get out of hand by not calling the penalties that were occurring during play and cleaning the ice of the knuckleheads. Jumping Dimitrakos and Cheechoo? Four against one (Harvey) after a clean hit? Anyone else notice how McLaren and Harvey kept their wits despite the garbage? Maybe Colorado will lose their composure some more (like St. Louis) and blow the series early.

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04-23-2004, 01:57 AM
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You can't assume that was Granato's doing. In fact, I'm sure he gave them a good tongue-lashing in the lockerroom, if Sakic didn't beat him to it.

~Crazed.

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04-23-2004, 06:39 AM
  #3
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Colorado roughing - 2 min 19:59, B. Boughner
Colorado roughing - 2 min 19:59, B. Boughner
Colorado roughing - 2 min 19:59, B. Boughner


Is that true? A triple minor for roughing? If so, I've never seen a triple minor. I went to bed after one, but SJ dominated that period without much trouble. I wish I could have seen it turn ugly, but all that matters is the scoreboard in the playoffs.

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04-23-2004, 07:16 AM
  #4
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[QUOTE=Hockeycrazed07]You can't assume that was Granato's doing. In fact, I'm sure he gave them a good tongue-lashing in the lockerroom, if Sakic didn't beat him to it.

~Crazed.[/QUOTE


He wanted something to happen or guys with little offensive ability like Barnaby and Gratton wouldn't have played in the last few minutes. He may have expected to throw bodychecks rather than punches but i doubt he was upset with what happened.


Last edited by Cyclops II*: 04-23-2004 at 01:31 PM.
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04-23-2004, 12:24 PM
  #5
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I dont think Tony was the one doing it as well,

but Barnaby punching SMith in the back of the head 5 times...then Boughner sp? Hitting Cheechoo in th eback of the head.. There wasnt much different from the Bertuzzi case. Aside from Todd Being 240 pounds and crashing on Moore.

It was hard to watch....I wish I couldve seen SMith Clock Barnaby...the camera switched away.

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04-23-2004, 04:25 PM
  #6
glennzky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeycrazed07
You can't assume that was Granato's doing. In fact, I'm sure he gave them a good tongue-lashing in the lockerroom, if Sakic didn't beat him to it.

~Crazed.
My opinion is the coach is in charge of the players and the way the team behaves. You can't tell me that considering the selection of players that were put on the ice and the 3 episodes that occurred at the end of the game that the garbage wasn't condoned by Granato. Granato could have used different players or told the rest of the bench to knock it off after the first episode. Since nothing changed both in the type of players put on the ice and resulting cheapshots were continued twice more, you can only say that Granato was at the very least ok with what was going on. And at the very worst he ordered them to play like that. To think otherwise is to be in denial of what happened.

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04-23-2004, 04:28 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-SHARKIE
I dont think Tony was the one doing it as well,

but Barnaby punching SMith in the back of the head 5 times...then Boughner sp? Hitting Cheechoo in th eback of the head.. There wasnt much different from the Bertuzzi case. Aside from Todd Being 240 pounds and crashing on Moore.

It was hard to watch....I wish I couldve seen SMith Clock Barnaby...the camera switched away.
Smith handled himself with Barnaby pretty well. They mainly were holding on to each other but a few punches were thrown with neither player getting a distinct advantage. At least when I started watching them. Since I was paying attention to that scrap and Harvey's mobbing earlier, I missed what happened with Stuart and Gratton. Anybody see what happened with that one?

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04-23-2004, 11:00 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennzky
My opinion is the coach is in charge of the players and the way the team behaves. You can't tell me that considering the selection of players that were put on the ice and the 3 episodes that occurred at the end of the game that the garbage wasn't condoned by Granato. Granato could have used different players or told the rest of the bench to knock it off after the first episode. Since nothing changed both in the type of players put on the ice and resulting cheapshots were continued twice more, you can only say that Granato was at the very least ok with what was going on. And at the very worst he ordered them to play like that. To think otherwise is to be in denial of what happened.
Looking at things from a coaching point of view, there are a few things at issue that you haven't seemed to notice.
1) Why use the stars like Sakic, Foppa, Hejduk, etc.? Why chance an injury to any of them? Without them on the ice, what you're left with are guys like Barnaby and Boughner and the like. So while it was a coaching decision to have them on the ice, I find it more of a decision to keep the stars off the ice, which put the tougher guys out there, than to put the tougher guys out there to take care of SJ's stars. In fact, I'm rather shocked that SJ didn't have its 4th line guys out there the whole 1:30 of the PP. That's a story for another time, though.

2) Players have to take responsibility for their actions on the ice, not coaches, who don't go on the ice. (For those of you aware of the Frost coaching record, this speaks volumes.) I'm 100% positive that Granato told the boys to send SJ a lesson. If he didn't, then he'd have been remiss in his duties, and should be fired like everyone says he should. That said, what a player does is up to him and him alone. Did Granato send the boys out to start fights? I can't think so. Not in the playoffs, when he didn't do so all year (and the Avs had plenty of spankings with which to do just that). The refs called the 3rd just like they called the 2nd and 1st, and it just melted down. It wasn't all Colorado or SJ...both sides melted down, to some extent. The players, mostly on Colorado, though SJ was just as involved, just lost control of their emotions, and they'll have to answer for it next game.

In summary, do I think Granato is at fault? Not really. As a coach, I know that I only control so much of the action. The reason for that is that there are 6 (or fewer) intelligent people on the ice (or rink), and sometimes, they come up with better ideas than I do. Other times, they come up with worse ones. This time, Granato's boys chose the worse of the routes. Big deal. Get over it. Move on to Game 2.

~Crazed.

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04-24-2004, 06:33 PM
  #9
glennzky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeycrazed07
Looking at things from a coaching point of view, there are a few things at issue that you haven't seemed to notice.
1) Why use the stars like Sakic, Foppa, Hejduk, etc.? Why chance an injury to any of them? Without them on the ice, what you're left with are guys like Barnaby and Boughner and the like. So while it was a coaching decision to have them on the ice, I find it more of a decision to keep the stars off the ice, which put the tougher guys out there, than to put the tougher guys out there to take care of SJ's stars. In fact, I'm rather shocked that SJ didn't have its 4th line guys out there the whole 1:30 of the PP. That's a story for another time, though.

2) Players have to take responsibility for their actions on the ice, not coaches, who don't go on the ice. (For those of you aware of the Frost coaching record, this speaks volumes.) I'm 100% positive that Granato told the boys to send SJ a lesson. If he didn't, then he'd have been remiss in his duties, and should be fired like everyone says he should. That said, what a player does is up to him and him alone. Did Granato send the boys out to start fights? I can't think so. Not in the playoffs, when he didn't do so all year (and the Avs had plenty of spankings with which to do just that). The refs called the 3rd just like they called the 2nd and 1st, and it just melted down. It wasn't all Colorado or SJ...both sides melted down, to some extent. The players, mostly on Colorado, though SJ was just as involved, just lost control of their emotions, and they'll have to answer for it next game.

In summary, do I think Granato is at fault? Not really. As a coach, I know that I only control so much of the action. The reason for that is that there are 6 (or fewer) intelligent people on the ice (or rink), and sometimes, they come up with better ideas than I do. Other times, they come up with worse ones. This time, Granato's boys chose the worse of the routes. Big deal. Get over it. Move on to Game 2.

~Crazed.
Once again I am shaking my head at your confused perspective. We're obviously going to have to agree to disagree - yet again. You do seem to contradict yourself though:

"I'm 100% positive that Granato told the boys to send SJ a lesson. If he didn't, then he'd have been remiss in his duties, and should be fired like everyone says he should."

vs.

"Did Granato send the boys out to start fights? I can't think so."

Ummm how were they supposed to "send SJ a lesson" without the garbage they did? And you don't want to blame the coach even though you're 100% positive Granato told them to "send SJ a lesson"???? You might want to re-read your post and reconsider your opnion. Yikes, all I really should have to do to make my argument is to use excerpts from yours.

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04-24-2004, 09:38 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennzky
Ummm how were they supposed to "send SJ a lesson" without the garbage they did?
Umm...how about playing physical? Good, clean checks (EDIT: or slightly dirty ones, like the normal ones you see come playoff time)? You know, the same reason the folks here in SJ love McLaren, or Ricci, or Cheechoo, or Thornton, or Smitty, or...well, I could list them, but you don't care either way, so I'll stop there.

~Crazed.


Last edited by Hockeycrazed07: 04-24-2004 at 10:39 PM.
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04-25-2004, 05:23 PM
  #11
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I think Granato made the right choice. I am fairly sure that in one of the Sharks' past series with Saint Louis, there was one game where the Sharks' win was a few minutes (or less) away. What did St. Louis players do? They took the opportunity to make every check very hard. Sharks won the game (if I remember correctly), but if any Shark let up just a bit before they cleared the puck to kill off some more time, Pronger and Co. would go full-force and smash then into the boards. Most to all of it was just some good, hard, legal hits (again, all from memory). It is important that a losing team is disciplined and ready to win the next game.
Although Granato is a very respectable player, that doesn't mean that he doesn't know hockey. If I remember correctly, he knew how to do the "veteran" things such as getting under other players' skins. I doubt that Granato told his players to go out, hunt down Sharks, and cheap shot them till the clock sounds. He probably told them to take the Saint Louis approach and go out, hunt down Sharks, and as legally hockey as possible, take them hard into the boards. His players probably did what they did because of frustration. I'm sure it's not the easiest thing to be disciplined, to position yourself correctly, and to appropriately unload your anger with a legal check when your team has been outplayed by a disciplined team like SJ.


Last edited by sharks: 04-25-2004 at 05:27 PM.
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04-25-2004, 05:55 PM
  #12
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Personally, I think Granato isn't enticing his players to common thuggery, I think it's the fact that the Sharks have simply frustrated the Avs to the point of getting the Avs to take tripple minors and send their best players to the sin bin (Ie: Forseberg) allowing the Sharks time to play the game they wanna play. If that wasn't enough for the Avs, the Sharks have been HIGHLY dissiplined, holding back and not allowing the vicous Avalance PP to take hold. This in my opinion is why the Sharks are up 6-1 this postseason. There simply frustrating the opponent and having them make bad plays and take bad penilties.

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04-25-2004, 06:11 PM
  #13
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That's one of the great things about the Sharks' style of play; it goes well against almost anything that a team can toss out there. If a team plays puck posession (like Colorado), SJ's counter-attack system eats any mistakes alive. (SJ is praying that Colorado doesn't fix the holes in its game, because a counter-attack system can't beat a puck control system running on all cylinders, unless is it very lucky.) If a team plays more up-the-boards (which is what STL used), the wingers can stay in the middle of the ice with the D out wide and the opposing forward along the boards has no option once the puck gets to him. IMO the Sharks are weakest against crash-and-bang teams, but luckily for them, the only one left in the West is Calgary, and they'll have to beat Detroit to get to the Conference Finals. That said, the Sharks still have to get by the Avs, and in the East lurk Toronto and Philly. As scary as it sounds, I think Keith Primeau might be SJ's toughest guy to defend, at this point, though Foppa's doing pretty well himself.

~Crazed.

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