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Old
02-28-2008, 01:49 PM
  #51
mcphee
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Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
I dont think its very responsible to put Valentenko, Carle and Weber in the list and not put Fisher + Subban. Imo they arent any more boom or bust than any of the first 3 names. In this list, Fisher is by far my favorite, hes rapidly improving this season and I expect him to dominate next year, AHL the following year and NHL around 22-23. Hail to the top titty!

Maxwell for me is a big risk factor, he got the talent, no doubt, but can he reach the NHL if hes injured for more than half of every seasons? We need to address the top 6 center position in this year draft big time.(Limit the risk) Maybe it's time to swing a big trade to go up in the draft. That being said, 2009 is a much better year for centers, much much much better year.

Theres many good options this year.

Stamkos(Obviously)(I'm not against a big trade for him, but its pretty hard to swing.)
Nikita Filatov(top 10)
Mikkel Boedker(10-15)
Cody Hodgson(10-15)
Jordan Eberle(12-20)
Joe Colborne(20-25)

Colborne might be in our reach, but I'll be pleased to see us move up for the Boedker-Hodgson-Eberle group.
That's a good point. Frankly, I hadn't thought a whole lot about this year's draft. Using our depth to move up would make sense, as I've really only thought about using it to acquire a 'name'. I guess it depends on whether Timmins sees anyone who fits the bill.

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02-28-2008, 01:51 PM
  #52
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Wow... In all seriousness, I am impressed with the quality of the posts in this thread. You guys are making good points and I agree with most of you.

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02-28-2008, 01:53 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Russeltown View Post
Wow... In all seriousness, I am impressed with the quality of the posts in this thread. You guys are making good points and I agree with most of you.
Really ? I sense a lot of feeblemindedness.

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02-28-2008, 01:57 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Noldo View Post
It is easy to get mixed with holes that need to be filled next season (Scoring Winger, Ryder's spot) and long term development (after summer 2009). I suppose that quite much depends on the actual decline of Habs current veterans.

Right now it seems like Kovalev would have few more years in his tank. But the situation is also dependant on the progress over next summer. If great scoring winger can be lured to Montreal (for example Hossa), the top winger spot is secured and more patient way (ie. draft) can be used to replace Kovalev, especially if extension can be done.

Even without additional signing Habs are not in bad situation regarding wingers. With both Kastitsyns, Latendresse, Higgins and hopefully Pacioretty and maybe D'Agostini or Wyman, Habs can have sufficient wingers to fill 2 scoring lines and one two-way line with homegrown talent.

In center position, I would be much more concerned about future. For next year Habs are well set with Plekanec, Koivu and Chipchura. If Koivu can continue past his current contract as 2nd line center, more power to Habs, but sooner or later his replacement has to be brought abroad.

Habs will probably get best out of Chipchura as 3rd line two-way center. If we could get into position where Plekanec would be slotted as 2nd line center, Habs would be in great shape, but just finding reliably #2 behind him will serve Habs well.

The difficulty is that bringing in new center also means that one of existing players have to be moved in depth chart. That means one of the four possible options:
1.) New center or Koivu is moved to wing (solution to missing winger problem?)
2.) Chipchura is pushed down to 4th line and new center or Koivu is moved to 3rd line, team rolls with 3 scoring lines
3.) Koivu is moved to 4th line with less role in ES but given responsibility in special teams (like Yzerman did in Detroit).
4.) Koivu is moved to make space for new center

Now, in the end I hope Habs can move in accordance with option 3, but then the emerge of new player would have to be simultaneous with reasonable change in Koivu's game. Orchestrating that is quite difficult task, so best thing could be living in accordance with option 1.
I guess you could project that what Kovy loses, Kostitsyn gains ? If a upper tier player is signed on the wing, it allows Koivu to play an offensive role longer, or a way to balance lines. I think he could play wing in the right situation, maybe alongside a Chipchura. C is only a starting point now.

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02-28-2008, 02:09 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Really ? I sense a lot of feeblemindedness.
a jokinen for the future.





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02-28-2008, 02:11 PM
  #56
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I would be VERY pleased if we used our depth to move up in this draft. I am a BIG BIG fan of getting your draftees to the NHL. I think one of the reasons this team is having success is that most of them were drafted by the canadiens. A lot of them had the chance to play together in Hamilton. You get to get them when they are young and still full of potential and you can develop them the way you want.

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02-28-2008, 02:12 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Really ? I sense a lot of feeblemindedness.
Depends who. I should have specified that I do not read posts bringing old whining stuff, hence I appreciate the true replies, like Noldo's post.

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Originally Posted by terreur View Post
I would be VERY pleased if we used our depth to move up in this draft. I am a BIG BIG fan of getting your draftees to the NHL. I think one of the reasons this team is having success is that most of them were drafted by the canadiens. A lot of them had the chance to play together in Hamilton. You get to get them when they are young and still full of potential and you can develop them the way you want.
Isn't it the way the NJ Devils build their last decade successes? Sure they have Brodeur, but they still need 20 players in front of him.

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02-28-2008, 02:17 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noldo View Post
It is easy to get mixed with holes that need to be filled next season (Scoring Winger, Ryder's spot) and long term development (after summer 2009). I suppose that quite much depends on the actual decline of Habs current veterans.

Right now it seems like Kovalev would have few more years in his tank. But the situation is also dependant on the progress over next summer. If great scoring winger can be lured to Montreal (for example Hossa), the top winger spot is secured and more patient way (ie. draft) can be used to replace Kovalev, especially if extension can be done.

Even without additional signing Habs are not in bad situation regarding wingers. With both Kastitsyns, Latendresse, Higgins and hopefully Pacioretty and maybe D'Agostini or Wyman, Habs can have sufficient wingers to fill 2 scoring lines and one two-way line with homegrown talent.

In center position, I would be much more concerned about future. For next year Habs are well set with Plekanec, Koivu and Chipchura. If Koivu can continue past his current contract as 2nd line center, more power to Habs, but sooner or later his replacement has to be brought abroad.

Habs will probably get best out of Chipchura as 3rd line two-way center. If we could get into position where Plekanec would be slotted as 2nd line center, Habs would be in great shape, but just finding reliably #2 behind him will serve Habs well.

The difficulty is that bringing in new center also means that one of existing players have to be moved in depth chart. That means one of the four possible options:
1.) New center or Koivu is moved to wing (solution to missing winger problem?)
2.) Chipchura is pushed down to 4th line and new center or Koivu is moved to 3rd line, team rolls with 3 scoring lines
3.) Koivu is moved to 4th line with less role in ES but given responsibility in special teams (like Yzerman did in Detroit).
4.) Koivu is moved to make space for new center

Now, in the end I hope Habs can move in accordance with option 3, but then the emerge of new player would have to be simultaneous with reasonable change in Koivu's game. Orchestrating that is quite difficult task, so best thing could be living in accordance with option 1.
So much is said about this for nothing, we had Ryder's replacement in our system for over 2 years, Matt D'Agostini. If we dont sign Ryder back, D'Ago will be in the NHL early next year.

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02-28-2008, 02:59 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Russeltown View Post
Depends who. I should have specified that I do not read posts bringing old whining stuff, hence I appreciate the true replies, like Noldo's post.



Isn't it the way the NJ Devils build their last decade successes? Sure they have Brodeur, but they still need 20 players in front of him.
Myself more than anyone. I was kidding, saying something nice about the thread starter in particular is very painful for me.

I actually think Noldo sums it up very well too.

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Old
02-28-2008, 03:02 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Myself more than anyone. I was kidding, saying something nice about the thread starter in particular is very painful for me.

I actually think Noldo sums it up very well too.
You could always tell me that something's up my butt...

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Old
02-28-2008, 03:09 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by AD View Post
You could always tell me that something's up my butt...
That's an area, I try to avoid. Well there's that drunken night in lockup, but we agreed never to discuss that.

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Old
02-28-2008, 06:54 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Chances are Fischer's value might not be that good even though he's slowly improving. Just remember that the guy who sold Fischer to Timmins was really close to him and was connected to Timmins and the Habs. I really doubt that other teams had him that high in their rankings with even one known team that would not have touched him with a 10-foot pole.....

Keeping him and watch him slowly progress as a project might be better than anything a team might be willing to give us. Especially not with the 08 and 09 drafts coming. Too many good prospects out there to pass on for a raw prospect.....
There was a commentator from the Hockey News on the hockey show with Bill Waters a while ago ( dont remember his name ) . They discussed the habs prospects who might be trade bait at the deadline , and he mentioned that while McDonaugh and Subban might higher on our list , he said " 6`5" skaters like Boumeester dont grow on trees. He said Fischer has made huge strides this year, much more assertive in his own zone, and when it is all said and done , he might be the best blueliner of them all. He said look at Obyrne and how well he has developed , it took time, but he mentioned " YOU DONT GIVE AWAY PLAYERS LIKE THAT" .

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