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JVR, B Prospect, 2nd for Gabriel Landeskog

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Old
02-17-2017, 10:52 AM
  #51
leafsfan1234
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Originally Posted by Starat327 View Post
Good comparison. Fortunately for the Avs, they dont have to resign Landeskog to a new contract while being in cap hell.
I'm not sure why you're even mentioning that when the only difference is that the Avs can choose to keep Landeskog instead of trading him.. It has no impact on value at all?

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02-17-2017, 10:52 AM
  #52
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I mean if they're equalish value, go sell him to Boston fans for Carlo plus a couple of prospects/picks.

I'm sure they'll be accepting.

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02-17-2017, 10:52 AM
  #53
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I see Landy as producing similar offensively and better more often than not. I also see Landy as being better defensively (that matters). I also see Landy as a leader that JVR isn't. Landy is also do younger and under contract (significant). So yes, Landeskog has much more value than also do 1 dimensional JVR that only contributes at one end of the ice whereas the younger Landeskog contributes at both ends, is younger, and under contract for far longer. JVR doesn't fit the age range and is a significant downgrade to Landy.
Leading his team straight to the worst finish over nearly every NHL team in past 5 years

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02-17-2017, 10:52 AM
  #54
Toronto makebeleifs
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I generally find you to be one of the more reasonable Leafs posters here. Surely, you can understand there is more to the game than points, no?
I think he's merely pointing out that the leafs have a realistic expectation for a return on jvr. Points aren't everything, you're right, but some of the asks on Landy have been ludicrous. Like jvr+gardiner+a 1st? Playing good defence on a team that has let up the most goals this year isn't something to hang your hat on. I personally don't think Colorado should trade Landy anyways. soderberg, duchene, ej, Beauchemin, iggy, Colborne, get whatever you can for them (which should be pretty good) draft one of patrick, lilijgren, heircher, or vilardi and your rebuild is well on its way.

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02-17-2017, 10:52 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by EdAVSfan View Post
We should throw in Patrice Bergeron' stats on this list too.

Value is all about team context. We have no need whatsoever in JVR. His value to us, is what we can get for him by trading him away.
are you trying to suggest Landeskog is as good defensively or impacts the game away from the puck as well as bergeron?

these teams arent a match. the beat reporter on the avs is the cause of all this nonsense.

Toronto needs D. the avs need D. toronto isnt overpaying for the avs sturggling forwards. end thread

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02-17-2017, 10:52 AM
  #56
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Got the wrong team adding. JVR is better.

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02-17-2017, 10:53 AM
  #57
Aceboogie
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Originally Posted by EdAVSfan View Post
I mean if they're equalish value, go sell him to Boston fans for Carlo plus a couple of prospects/picks.

I'm sure they'll be accepting.
This right here should be why Avs fans should be lowering expectations on the value of Landeskog. Boston is saying no to Brandon Carlo. Brandon Carlo. They could even get McAvoy

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02-17-2017, 10:53 AM
  #58
EdAVSfan
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Originally Posted by Halla View Post
are you trying to suggest Landeskog is as good defensively or impacts the game away from the puck as well as bergeron?

these teams arent a match. the beat reporter on the avs is the cause of all this nonsense.

Toronto needs D. the avs need D. toronto isnt overpaying for the avs sturggling forwards. end thread
No, I'm suggesting that it's in bad faith to just list point totals and compare players.

Not comparing age, play style, defensive ability, contract, etc. While trying to make a comparison is disengenuous at best.

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02-17-2017, 10:53 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Toronto makebeleifs View Post
I think he's merely pointing out that the leafs have a realistic expectation for a return on jvr. Points aren't everything, you're right, but some of the asks on Landy have been ludicrous. Like jvr+gardiner+a 1st? Playing good defence on a team that has let up the most goals this year isn't something to hang your hat on. I personally don't think Colorado should trade Landy anyways. soderberg, duchene, ej, Beauchemin, iggy, Colborne, get whatever you can for them (which should be pretty good) draft one of patrick, lilijgren, heircher, or vilardi and your rebuild is well on its way.
Agree that JVR/Gardiner/1st is an extreme ask. Not defending that.

Simply stating that to anyone with an unbiased view, Landeskog is the better all around player, and outside of this year, their production is comparable, at the very least.

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Old
02-17-2017, 10:54 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Toronto makebeleifs View Post
Yes and, sort of. Colorado, on paper, is supposed to be a good team. Bad coaching and poor systems will do that though. If toronto were to trade for a winger off col, it would be soderberg. The leafs can't afford landeskog
Don't forget the injuries. Their best defenseman broke his leg early in the season and their top goalie recently had hip surgery. This season might not be nearly as horrid if EJ had been healthy and Varly hadn't been struggling with groin/hip issues.

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02-17-2017, 10:54 AM
  #61
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jvr for beaucheman.

toronto gets their d man.

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02-17-2017, 10:55 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by pensandcaps View Post
Got the wrong team adding. JVR is better.
Because contract, term and age doesn't matter right?

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02-17-2017, 10:55 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Halla View Post
are you trying to suggest Landeskog is as good defensively or impacts the game away from the puck as well as bergeron?

these teams arent a match. the beat reporter on the avs is the cause of all this nonsense.

Toronto needs D. the avs need D. toronto isnt overpaying for the avs sturggling forwards. end thread
And at no point have I ever suggested this is a good deal for the leafs.

Just challenging the value difference between JVR and landeskog.

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02-17-2017, 10:57 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by SHANNYPLAN View Post
Just wondering if the AVS would consider this.
Boy, Toronto fan must really think JVR sucks because every Toronto fan wants to deal him in any deal they make. It's a big time running joke.

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02-17-2017, 10:59 AM
  #65
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Because contract, term and age doesn't matter right?
When comparing how the two effect the game on the ice? No, they don't. How they're perceived as assets? Absolutely. Imo too much is made of JVR's contract situation, everyone here wants their players all on 8 year max deals. That's not how the NHL works, you need flexibility. Which a 5.5m 3rd line producing winger signed for 4 more years doesn't really provide to you. A 1st line producing winger with a cap hit of 4.25 and only a year left afterwards provides long term flexibility and current stability.
All the 5.5m 3rd liner does is bring you closer to the cap.

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02-17-2017, 11:00 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by EdAVSfan View Post
And at no point have I ever suggested this is a good deal for the leafs.

Just challenging the value difference between JVR and landeskog.
The value depends on need. It's always need. If your team is solid defensively but can't score to save their lives, you might have different requirements. In that case, your team might lean more towards one player. If the Leafs had Landeskog, they'd probably be looking to add JVR. Or the reverse. Need. That will determine the value.
Vanek and Gaborik didn't get 1st round picks because of their solid D.

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02-17-2017, 11:00 AM
  #67
Halla
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Originally Posted by Semyon Says View Post
jvr for beaucheman.

toronto gets their d man.
throw in the avs 1st and we have a deal

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02-17-2017, 11:00 AM
  #68
pensandcaps
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Because contract, term and age doesn't matter right?
Okay. Still Toronto shouldnt be adding a B propect and a 2nd for a lateral move.

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02-17-2017, 11:00 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by The Big D View Post
We could ask them in three years? Seeing as JVR is only 27 and has outperformed Landy in ever measurable metric this isn't far off. I would say JVR @50% plus 2017 1st for landy makes sense. Avs then retain 50% on JVR and sell him to the highest bidder for a kings ransom. 60+ point large wingers for 1.0625 is absolute larceny and would have every contender and pretender offering up a bevy of prospects
Career PPG - Landeskog 0.67 - JVR 0.64
Highest point total in a season - Landeskog 65 - JVR 61
Career seasons over 50 points - Landeskog 4 - JVR 2
50 point seasons before the age of 24 - Landeskog 4 - JVR 0
Career seasons over 20 goals - Landeskog 4 - JVR 3 (yes, I know JVR only needs 1 more this season to even up this category, but the point still stands as of today)

Every measurable metric? Really?

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02-17-2017, 11:01 AM
  #70
EdAVSfan
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Originally Posted by Aceboogie View Post
This right here should be why Avs fans should be lowering expectations on the value of Landeskog. Boston is saying no to Brandon Carlo. Brandon Carlo. They could even get McAvoy
Sure. But I'm sure if you offered them JVR for Carlo+, theyd downright laugh.

Carlo is intriguing. Hard to say what he is.

And the rumours coming have said landeskog for Carlo+. So we don't really who's saying what. Then again, you seem to know.

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02-17-2017, 11:03 AM
  #71
The Big D
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Originally Posted by IWantSakicAsMyGM View Post
Career PPG - Landeskog 0.67 - JVR 0.64
Highest point total in a season - Landeskog 65 - JVR 61
Career seasons over 50 points - Landeskog 4 - JVR 2
50 point seasons before the age of 24 - Landeskog 4 - JVR 0
Career seasons over 20 goals - Landeskog 4 - JVR 3 (yes, I know JVR only needs 1 more this season to even up this category, but the point still stands as of today)

Every measurable metric? Really?
Which way are both players trending? Taking Landy's productive early seasons into account and at the same time JVR's philly stats makes your argument tainted and consequently invalid. Gimme a breakdown since both signed their extensions

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02-17-2017, 11:04 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by EdAVSfan View Post
We should throw in Patrice Bergeron' stats on this list too.

Value is all about team context. We have no need whatsoever in JVR. His value to us, is what we can get for him by trading him away.
I put that in my post, we also have no need for Landeskog...i agree, terrible dance partners. My post was strictly in response to our supposed over valuing.

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02-17-2017, 11:05 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Trapper View Post
The value depends on need. It's always need. If your team is solid defensively but can't score to save their lives, you might have different requirements. In that case, your team might lean more towards one player. If the Leafs had Landeskog, they'd probably be looking to add JVR. Or the reverse. Need. That will determine the value.
Vanek and Gaborik didn't get 1st round picks because of their solid D.
Of course. But JVR's value lies most with a team that is looking to win now.

Because we don't really know what he's gonna command as a UFA. 5M? 6M? 7M?

All you leaf fans suggest he's a 1st line winger. Therefore, he's likely to get paid like one.

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02-17-2017, 11:06 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Boy, Toronto fan must really think JVR sucks because every Toronto fan wants to deal him in any deal they make. It's a big time running joke.
For help on D. And what does that say about Duchene/Landeskog...they are both "actually" on the block, while TO management have said JVR isn't.

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02-17-2017, 11:06 AM
  #75
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The leadership argument is stupid.

For one you're not gonna milk an extra prospect out of us for being a "good leader" and two JVR absolutely has leadership skills or so we've heard, he has been a leader to the young forward core

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