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Jeff Carter = Vanek?

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Old
03-04-2008, 06:05 PM
  #26
BobbyClarkeFan16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
RFA offers are a combination of strategy and value of a player... any team knows that we're like to match that offer, so it would be pointless. Thomas Vanek was NOT worth 7M last year, that was a strategic attempt to get a good young player away from a club.

If a team really wants Carter they're going to offer 5+ million on an offer sheet.
Couple of things. Thomas Vanek earned that 7 million dollar payday he's getting now. 40+ goals, 84 points, while playing only 16 minutes a game? Come on, his numbers were right up there with guys like Lecavalier, Spezza, Heatley, etc....and he did this while in his second season of play in the NHL. Vanek is fabulous. The problem in Buffalo is that they did not plan for life after Briere and Drury and they got burned huge. No backup plan in place in case neither guy signs, leaving Vanek exposed to the offer, etc......it was a mess.

Vanek has also been earning the money as of late as he's practically carried that Buffalo team on his back. It was going to take some adjustments to getting first line ice time and being the center of greater defensive attention. However, Vanek has come through and is showing very much that he's player everyone will think he'll be. The guy's a superstar.

As for Carter, he's nowhere near Thomas as of yet. He'll get a decent contract based on the potential to score more, but there's a difference between being a proven commodity and still getting over the hump. Carter will get his mega millions, but not for a few more years. I'm willing to bet he'll sign a deal similar to what Parise got, but maybe a year less.

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03-04-2008, 06:22 PM
  #27
Jester
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Vanek wasn't nearly the proven commodity too justify a 7M paycheck... moreover, he was playing on a track meet surrounded by veterans carrying a lot of the load. It was his 2nd year in the league... that's not a 7M player just yet given that he'd put up 48 the year before.

Not saying Vanek isn't a good player, but 7M was an overpayment last offseason. It was an attempt to get him away.

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03-04-2008, 11:36 PM
  #28
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No kidding, when it comes down to dollars and cents family>>>hockey...I'd take the stability and run like 99% of every other athlete does
Yeah, and you are a pedofile, Ryan....

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03-05-2008, 12:23 AM
  #29
cassius
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When Carter scores 40 goals in the national hockey league, we can start comparing him to Vanek.

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03-05-2008, 12:34 AM
  #30
Jester
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
When Carter scores 40 goals in the national hockey league, we can start comparing him to Vanek.
the comparison btwn the two is purely as RFAs (i assume).

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03-05-2008, 12:45 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
the comparison btwn the two is purely as RFAs (i assume).
I don't see any GM's throwing Vanek type money at Carter. Vanek could very easily score 50 goals in his prime, whereas I see Carter as a 30+30, solid 2 way player. I could see him getting more along the lines of a Dustin Penner type contract if a GM threw money at him.

Eklund is way off-base in calling Carter a potential 50 goal man and comparing him to the likes of Thornton/Sundin. I would sooner compare Braydon Coburn to Chris Pronger than call Carter a mix between Sundin and Joe Thornton. 50 goal scorers don't grow on trees and they'll probably only be 3-4 of them this season: Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Iginla, and possibly Malkin.

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03-05-2008, 12:51 AM
  #32
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I wonder if Carter wants to test RFA?

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Old
03-05-2008, 01:48 AM
  #33
Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cassius View Post
I don't see any GM's throwing Vanek type money at Carter. Vanek could very easily score 50 goals in his prime, whereas I see Carter as a 30+30, solid 2 way player. I could see him getting more along the lines of a Dustin Penner type contract if a GM threw money at him.

Eklund is way off-base in calling Carter a potential 50 goal man and comparing him to the likes of Thornton/Sundin. I would sooner compare Braydon Coburn to Chris Pronger than call Carter a mix between Sundin and Joe Thornton. 50 goal scorers don't grow on trees and they'll probably only be 3-4 of them this season: Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Iginla, and possibly Malkin.
I don't think you've watched enough of Carter... he's never going to consistently score at that level, but he has one of the sickest wrist shot releases I've ever seen in the league... just needs to learn to contain it and get it off more often. He's not a Sundin or a Thornton cuz his playmaking ability isn't in the same league.

40 is easily within his potential reach (may never get there), and 50 is possible in a career year. may never become that player, but doesn't mean the potential isn't there.

It's interesting the totals you quoted... given that's exactly what Vanek is on pace for this year.


Last edited by Jester: 03-05-2008 at 01:54 AM.
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03-05-2008, 06:39 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by scottymac223 View Post
Why not? I have been a Flyer fan for 27 years. If I had been a young stud player and the Flyers drafted me and I was in Carters situation and the Flyers offered me 4.5 for 4 and another team offered me 6.5 for 4, uh I taking the extra 8 Mil.

It's a business.
Id take the pay cut to play for a team with great potential, in a city I am happy being in, and playing with good friends of mine.

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03-05-2008, 08:41 AM
  #35
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I wonder how come Devils players like Martin, Gionta, Parise and others do not sign offer sheets and do everything they can to stay with the Devils. Sometimes they take pay cuts to stay with the team.

If Carter wants to stay as a Flyer, good. If he wants to sign an offer sheet and make $, screw him. We'll take picks (hopefully Vanek like offer sheet, more picks for us).

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03-05-2008, 12:35 PM
  #36
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Anyone think its possible that if Toronto dont hit a top 2 pick that they may trade their first rounder for a Carter package?
I would rather do that then trade him for picks if we cant sign him?

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03-05-2008, 12:38 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by martin27 View Post
Anyone think its possible that if Toronto dont hit a top 2 pick that they may trade their first rounder for a Carter package?
I would rather do that then trade him for picks if we cant sign him?
Probably only happens if Kaberle is coming back this way, and he's not likely to waive his NTC so soon after not waiving it.

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Old
03-05-2008, 01:45 PM
  #38
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im trusting Holmer will find a way to get Carter re-signed.
Slodry,Kapanen are on their way out.
one has to think that Hatcher is thinking about retiring his knees are really really.
starting to betray him, dont think he would last another season.
Does Knuble get dealt in the offseason? I think some team could use a guy like that.
Jason Smith remains a question mark as well trying to get him to come back.
Also i guess we can book it that the salary cap goes up again.
Carter will be priority #1 I would think.

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03-05-2008, 01:51 PM
  #39
Jester
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
I wonder how come Devils players like Martin, Gionta, Parise and others do not sign offer sheets and do everything they can to stay with the Devils. Sometimes they take pay cuts to stay with the team.
Gionta had a deal worked out with Lou that he was comfortable with... he's getting paid 4M, which is pretty good money given that he only has one super strong season on his resume.

Parise signed earlier, and likely regrets the deal based on what has happened since then. Just like Cheechoo's agent looked like an idiot when he signed up early.

Quote:
If Carter wants to stay as a Flyer, good. If he wants to sign an offer sheet and make $, screw him. We'll take picks (hopefully Vanek like offer sheet, more picks for us).
Jeff Carter, like every other hockey player and employee, wants to make good money playing hockey. I wouldn't separate "wanting to stay a Flyer" and wanting to "make $." He probably wants to do both...

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Old
03-05-2008, 02:11 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Jeff Carter, like every other hockey player and employee, wants to make good money playing hockey. I wouldn't separate "wanting to stay a Flyer" and wanting to "make $." He probably wants to do both...
Well as a fan I want to see all around strong performance 1st, 100% effort and some points on the board. 50pts is nice but that does not give you 5M a year does it? Especially when GM went spend so much for #1 d-man and center.

Screw Cheechoo! Who the hell is he with out Big Joe?


Last edited by Kaktus*: 03-05-2008 at 02:16 PM.
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Old
03-05-2008, 02:11 PM
  #41
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Since 2009 draft is arguably among the best and deepest in the recent history (basically predicted to be on par with extremely good 2003 draft), team might be more reluctant to give away their picks, even for somewhat proven commodity as Carter.

Also, offer sheets will probably look more dangerous (from offering teams point of view) depending on how low Edmonton falls.

All these factors are good for Flyer's since they make it more likely that no offer sheet is presented.

The danger is that Flyer's are quite tight in cap space, making them even more desirable target for offer sheet. It is also quite clear that Flyer's management is very aware of that and they might deside to move Carter if he is not signed to suitable contract before July 1st.

I would assume that if there is offer sheet to Carter, it is somewhere around 4,5 / year at maximum, probably for 4 years. Why?
1.) Compensation is "only" 1st, 2nd and 3rd (same as in Penner case), much more affordable (although next draft is deep).
2.) Salary is quite high for 3rd line center. If Philly matches, they will have difficulties with cap, even with ability to put veterans to minors. But if Carter is given 1st line (or even 2nd line) center duty in his new team, the salary isn't really that bad (especially for years 3 and 4, assuming Carter develops as hoped)
3.) Any contract term beyond 5 years is going to increase the compensation.

Since most estimates has given cap increase to 53 or 54 millions next season, such offer sheet would require that Hatcher is waived and even then Philly would have quite difficult cap situation for years to come.

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Old
03-05-2008, 02:21 PM
  #42
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I'm not worried about Edmonton sending an offer sheet, they have their own situation to worry about with Gilbert and Pitkanen as RFAs.

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Old
03-05-2008, 02:29 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
I'm not worried about Edmonton sending an offer sheet, they have their own situation to worry about with Gilbert and Pitkanen as RFAs.
I would worry about Vancouver. Naslund & Linden are UFAs about 7-8M right there and they need 2nd line center playing behind H.Sedin, Kesler is 3rd line center.

I do not think Nonis forgot about Kesler offer sheet.

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Old
03-05-2008, 02:30 PM
  #44
Noldo
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On quick look team that most likely could be intrested on Carter:

- Islanders: Sillinger is past his best days and Comrie has not yet been seen as true 1st line material. They have spot open, but would management be confident of getting into playoffs next season (whereby trade of picks to Carter could become good move)?

- Montreal: They need someone for time after Koivu. But draft 2009 is held in Motreal, so Gainey has extra reason not to give away picks. Also, might want to tie their salary elsewhere (Plekanec, Komisarek, Higgins needing rise in next few years)

- Perhaps Columbus, as they are in need for top line center. However, Carter could be not enough of a playmaker for their needs and for team that have not yet reached playoffs, the picks can be too high price.

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