HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

What would have happened if the Atlanta Thrashers had won the Crosby Draft Lotto?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-16-2017, 01:40 PM
  #1
frogman210
http://puckplanet.com/
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 103
vCash: 500
What would have happened if the Atlanta Thrashers had won the Crosby Draft Lotto?

Hey everyone!

This is a really interesting question and thing to think about. I was not sure the best place to post this but as it's a potential look back at how the history of the league would be different if this had happened, I thought that this might be the most appropriate boards to share it in. Jon and I recently tackled this question and thought in our first ever "What If" piece for our monthly series that we started. Here is the link to the article if you want to take a look at it.

http://puckplanet.com/2017/03/15/wha...lotto-in-2005/

I would love to hear what you guys think would have been the repercussions. I would love to hear if you agree with what we thought in the article or if you disagree or if you think something completely different would have happened.

We have been really excited as we worked on this to hear what other peoples thoughts would be. If you agree or disagree with what we outlined here we would love to hear/chat with you. There is obviously no right or wrong answer here so please don't feel shy about sharing your thoughts. Thank you!

Looking forward to hearing what you guys think and having some fun hockey chat with you all! Thanks, everyone!

frogman210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2017, 02:25 PM
  #2
VanJack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,829
vCash: 500
You could have said this about any team in the NHL.....the 2005 draft was unique and likely never to be repeated in NHL history....coming out of the lockout, every team had an equal chance to win the first overall pick.....no matter where you finished, your lottery ball went into the hopper and could come up number one.

Remember the Canucks had one of the top teams entering the lock-out, but moved all the way up to 10th overall from the late 20's where they'd normally have drafted....and how would you feel if you were the Ducks?.....moved all the way up to 2nd overall, and had to settle for Bobby Ryan.....oh the pain of it all and what might have been!

VanJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2017, 02:27 PM
  #3
frogman210
http://puckplanet.com/
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanJack View Post
You could have said this about any team in the NHL.....the 2005 draft was unique and likely never to be repeated in NHL history....coming out of the lockout, every team had an equal chance to win the first overall pick.....no matter where you finished, your lottery ball went into the hopper and could come up number one.

Remember the Canucks had one of the top teams entering the lock-out, but moved all the way up to 10th overall from the late 20's where they'd normally have drafted....and how would you feel if you were the Ducks?.....moved all the way up to 2nd overall, and had to settle for Bobby Ryan.....oh the pain of it all and what might have been!
i thought that it was an equal chance at the top pick as well but that actually is not correct. in the research we did we found that every team in fact had A chance at the top pick but it was not equal as is the common miss belief the chance of getting the top pick was a combination and weighted based on the last 3 seasons successes.

as for the other parts that you said that is probably true that would have been a rough time to be a ducks fan and saw your team get so close but not quite there i am sorry for that :/

frogman210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2017, 02:50 PM
  #4
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 50,230
vCash: 1020
This section:

Quote:
In our current NHL timeline, the league went to the mat for one team (The Arizona Coyotes) and that meant that it couldn’t do the same things for the Atlanta Thrashers. In our alternate scenario, we feel that the NHL has to back the Atlanta Thrashers. They can’t afford to break up the Crosby-Ovechkin divisional rivalry that they banked so much of their promotion and marketing around to bring fans back to the sport. In this scenario, it would be likely that the league would have to abandon the Arizona Coyotes instead of the Atlanta Thrashers. The Coyotes then are moved to Hamilton Ontario.
... is not accurate.

The league didn't simply "abandon" the Thrashers. The league was outmaneuvered by an ownership group which had a deliberate plan to liquidate the team by selling them off to an out-of-market interest.

The reason the NHL was able to keep the Coyotes in place was that Moyes (the owner) and Balsillie (the buyer) conspired to force a sale through in defiance of the NHL's right to control its own interests. That led to a court battle, the collapse of Moyes' case, and eventually the Coyotes being turned over to league control until they could be sold to a locally-interested buyer.

Atlanta Spirit (Thrashers owners) observed all of that taking place, and took pains to ensure they were free and clear of any legal snares as they worked to get the Thrashers out of their building. The NHL had no recourse once the wheels were in motion.

The question here is, does Atlanta Spirit still want to sell the team if Crosby is playing for them? Possibly not. He would be a valuable commodity in any market, and his presence would have drastically increased the value of the franchise. It would have been in AS's best interests to hold the team for a while longer and reap the benefits of that increase. But at the end of the day, they wanted to control the building without the Thrashers in the way, so it's hard to imagine that they would have completely turned over a new leaf.

What might have saved the Thrashers in the long run would have been if Atlanta Spirit held onto the franchise to reap the Crosby windfall, then imploded before they had a chance to follow through with their relocation scheme.

tarheelhockey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2017, 03:19 PM
  #5
frogman210
http://puckplanet.com/
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
This section:



... is not accurate.

The league didn't simply "abandon" the Thrashers. The league was outmaneuvered by an ownership group which had a deliberate plan to liquidate the team by selling them off to an out-of-market interest.

The reason the NHL was able to keep the Coyotes in place was that Moyes (the owner) and Balsillie (the buyer) conspired to force a sale through in defiance of the NHL's right to control its own interests. That led to a court battle, the collapse of Moyes' case, and eventually the Coyotes being turned over to league control until they could be sold to a locally-interested buyer.

Atlanta Spirit (Thrashers owners) observed all of that taking place, and took pains to ensure they were free and clear of any legal snares as they worked to get the Thrashers out of their building. The NHL had no recourse once the wheels were in motion.

The question here is, does Atlanta Spirit still want to sell the team if Crosby is playing for them? Possibly not. He would be a valuable commodity in any market, and his presence would have drastically increased the value of the franchise. It would have been in AS's best interests to hold the team for a while longer and reap the benefits of that increase. But at the end of the day, they wanted to control the building without the Thrashers in the way, so it's hard to imagine that they would have completely turned over a new leaf.

What might have saved the Thrashers in the long run would have been if Atlanta Spirit held onto the franchise to reap the Crosby windfall, then imploded before they had a chance to follow through with their relocation scheme.

Very interesting, thank you for your thoughts. Do you think that it would have been enough then or do you think that the same things would have happened?

frogman210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2017, 03:43 PM
  #6
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 50,230
vCash: 1020
Quote:
Originally Posted by frogman210 View Post
Very interesting, thank you for your thoughts. Do you think that it would have been enough then or do you think that the same things would have happened?
I think it would have at least delayed Spirit's plans to sell the team, because there would have been such a windfall of attention and revenue from drafting Crosby. Ticket sales would have spiked pretty dramatically, the team would have been on national TV a lot more. It would have been harder to make a case for abruptly moving the team under those circumstances.

But I don't think it would have stopped them forever. Given a few years to let the buzz die down a bit, they'd have found a way out of owning the team. A more valuable team would have simply given them that much more of a windfall from selling it, and that was their endgame.

The only question is whether Spirit itself would have imploded before they got around to selling. In reality, the team was moved in 2011 and the group collapsed in 2014/2015. Does Crosby buy the franchise an extra 3 or 4 years in Atlanta? If so, maybe they get sold locally rather than relocated.

tarheelhockey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2017, 05:22 PM
  #7
frogman210
http://puckplanet.com/
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I think it would have at least delayed Spirit's plans to sell the team, because there would have been such a windfall of attention and revenue from drafting Crosby. Ticket sales would have spiked pretty dramatically, the team would have been on national TV a lot more. It would have been harder to make a case for abruptly moving the team under those circumstances.

But I don't think it would have stopped them forever. Given a few years to let the buzz die down a bit, they'd have found a way out of owning the team. A more valuable team would have simply given them that much more of a windfall from selling it, and that was their endgame.

The only question is whether Spirit itself would have imploded before they got around to selling. In reality, the team was moved in 2011 and the group collapsed in 2014/2015. Does Crosby buy the franchise an extra 3 or 4 years in Atlanta? If so, maybe they get sold locally rather than relocated.
That's some interesting thoughts that you have about it as well. Thanks, I appreciate you being willing to let me know what you think the implications would/could have been. Hope that your having a solid day!

frogman210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2017, 10:54 PM
  #8
Terry Yake
Registered User
 
Terry Yake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 8,021
vCash: 500
i still wonder how things would have turned out had the ducks gotten the #1 pick

getzlaf would've probably been traded

can't see them not still winning it all in '07

Terry Yake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 04:29 AM
  #9
alko
Registered User
 
alko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 3,022
vCash: 500
Another "Lindros case". Crosby would refuse to play for Thrashers.

alko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 08:54 AM
  #10
Johnny Engine
Moderator
 
Johnny Engine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alko View Post
Another "Lindros case". Crosby would refuse to play for Thrashers.
Care to provide any evidence that he'd consider doing that, or ever had the tendency to make those kind of moves?

Johnny Engine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 09:59 AM
  #11
tony d
Pug
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 55,382
vCash: 500
Would be interesting for sure. Got to wonder if hockey would still be in Pittsburgh had Crosby not gone there. Maybe Atlanta keeps the Thrashers in this case and Winnipeg gets the Penguins.

__________________
tony d is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 10:38 AM
  #12
Terry Yake
Registered User
 
Terry Yake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 8,021
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Would be interesting for sure. Got to wonder if hockey would still be in Pittsburgh had Crosby not gone there. Maybe Atlanta keeps the Thrashers in this case and Winnipeg gets the Penguins.
they would have still had malkin

they would've built around him and still been a playoff team, most likely no cups though

Terry Yake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 12:53 PM
  #13
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 50,230
vCash: 1020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
Care to provide any evidence that he'd consider doing that, or ever had the tendency to make those kind of moves?
Well Crosby certainly has that controversial personality and tendency to get caught up in big scandals. A real me-first kind of prima donna, I can totally imagine it happening.

tarheelhockey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 01:50 PM
  #14
alko
Registered User
 
alko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 3,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
Care to provide any evidence that he'd consider doing that, or ever had the tendency to make those kind of moves?
Cant provide. Just my feeling about this possibility. And if you want to say, its .....t, dont forget, what is the topic of this thread.

alko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 02:53 PM
  #15
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 31,457
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
This section:



... is not accurate.

The league didn't simply "abandon" the Thrashers. The league was outmaneuvered by an ownership group which had a deliberate plan to liquidate the team by selling them off to an out-of-market interest.

The reason the NHL was able to keep the Coyotes in place was that Moyes (the owner) and Balsillie (the buyer) conspired to force a sale through in defiance of the NHL's right to control its own interests. That led to a court battle, the collapse of Moyes' case, and eventually the Coyotes being turned over to league control until they could be sold to a locally-interested buyer.

Atlanta Spirit (Thrashers owners) observed all of that taking place, and took pains to ensure they were free and clear of any legal snares as they worked to get the Thrashers out of their building. The NHL had no recourse once the wheels were in motion.

The question here is, does Atlanta Spirit still want to sell the team if Crosby is playing for them? Possibly not. He would be a valuable commodity in any market, and his presence would have drastically increased the value of the franchise. It would have been in AS's best interests to hold the team for a while longer and reap the benefits of that increase. But at the end of the day, they wanted to control the building without the Thrashers in the way, so it's hard to imagine that they would have completely turned over a new leaf.

What might have saved the Thrashers in the long run would have been if Atlanta Spirit held onto the franchise to reap the Crosby windfall, then imploded before they had a chance to follow through with their relocation scheme.
Yeah, no way that team (Coyotes) wind up in Hamilton. Winnipeg yes. Twice TNSE days away from announcing the purchase & Relocation.... As for Crosby in Atlanta, thats actually to me a tough question. He had a lot of support from Lemieux when he was Drafted by the Pens, lived with him for quite a few years and that kind of support wouldnt/wasnt available in Atlanta. Yes there would have been some great young players for him to be playing with but as Management was so dysfunctional with Waddell at the helm, Im just not convinced he wouldve excelled to the extent that he did in Pittsburgh. Atlanta had already blown it with high picks, some fantastic future prospects, ASG only buying the club at all because they had to. Part of the package with the NBA franchise & the building. I doubt very much that even a talent like Crosby wouldve stemmed the tide.

Killion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 05:38 PM
  #16
saskganesh
Registered User
 
saskganesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the Annex
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,299
vCash: 500
A bright young star goes to a team going nowhere. There's some initial hope and excitement, but management fails to acquire supporting pieces, franchise flounders in mediocrity of the playoff bubble. Many years later, young star, no longer young or bright, potential apparently tarnished, is traded as a valuable rental to a team with SC ambitions.

We've seen this before.

saskganesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2017, 01:36 AM
  #17
Fenway
Global Moderator
Bruins Historian
 
Fenway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston-Cambridge MA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,131
vCash: 3332221
Three balls
Buffalo Sabres, Columbus Blue Jackets, New York Rangers, Pittsburgh Penguins

Two balls
Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, Atlanta Thrashers, Calgary Flames, Carolina Hurricanes, Chicago Blackhawks, Edmonton Oilers, Los Angeles Kings, Minnesota Wild, Nashville Predators, Phoenix Coyotes

One ball
Boston Bruins, Colorado Avalanche, Dallas Stars, Detroit Red Wings, Florida Panthers, Montreal Canadiens, New Jersey Devils, New York Islanders, Ottawa Senators, Philadelphia Flyers, San Jose Sharks, St. Louis Blues, Tampa Bay Lightning, Toronto Maple Leafs, Vancouver Canucks, Washington Capitals

Quote:
The Pittsburgh Penguins won the National Hockey League Draft Drawing, held today following the League's Board of Governors meeting in New York, and obtained the first overall selection for the 2005 Entry Draft, to be held Saturday, July 30 (noon, ET) at the Westin Hotel in Ottawa.

The Draft Drawing, a weighted lottery system, was used to determine the order of selection for all seven rounds of the Entry Draft. Under the weighted lottery system, the clubs that neither qualified for the Stanley Cup Playoffs in each of the 2001-02, 2002-03 and 2003-04 seasons, nor were awarded the first overall selection in each of the 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 Entry Drafts, had the greatest chance of receiving the first overall selection, 6.3 per cent. These clubs were the Penguins, Buffalo Sabres, Columbus Blue Jackets and New York Rangers.

Ten clubs met one of the seven criteria listed above and had a 4.2% chance of winning the Drawing, while the remaining 16 clubs met more than one of the criteria and had a 2.1% chance.

Forty-eight balls, numbered one through 48, were placed in a lottery machine. Three ball numbers were randomly assigned to each the Penguins, Sabres, Blue Jackets and Rangers; two ball numbers were assigned to the 10 clubs with a 4.2% chance; and one ball number was assigned to the 16 clubs with a 2.1% chance. The first ball expelled determined the winner of the first overall draft pick and it had been assigned to the Penguins.

After the first overall selection was awarded, another ball was expelled to determine which club, from among the 29 remaining, received the second overall pick. This process was continued until each of the 30 first-round draft positions was assigned.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26401

Fenway is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:57 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.