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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Lebrun: Canes Owner Willing To Sell Entire Team

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Old
03-17-2017, 02:47 PM
  #901
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
Well you see...to me its seems like its not enough. Okay, yes, celebrate the 10th anniversary over two games.

But what I was talking about is something that goes beyond 2 games. Something you start during summer and you build and develop over the whole season or two. Work with fans. Talk to them, what they like, what they don't, what they wanna see more of and less of (obviously more wins less losses).
The thing is, the bolded is the core of the whole issue.

It would be great if the team improved its marketing, but the marketing isn't the problem here. There are thousands upon thousands of fans who are fully aware of the team and don't need to be marketed to, who are sitting back and waiting until the value proposition of $30-$100/ticket starts making sense again. And that won't happen until the team gets out of the gutter.

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03-17-2017, 02:56 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
The thing is, the bolded is the core of the whole issue.

It would be great if the team improved its marketing, but the marketing isn't the problem here. There are thousands upon thousands of fans who are fully aware of the team and don't need to be marketed to, who are sitting back and waiting until the value proposition of $30-$100/ticket starts making sense again. And that won't happen until the team gets out of the gutter.
Pretty much this. Dress it up all you want but youve got to be delivering. All the fans want is a team that competes, efforts there, not mathematically eliminated from Playoff contention by Christmas.

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03-17-2017, 04:29 PM
  #903
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I don't really mean to harp on it, but the Hurricanes' pillow-soft approach to hockey doesn't lend itself to quick and easy cliche marketing about "hockey the hard way" or "grit and grind" or any of that. You can't sell that win or lose, the Hurricanes will make teams remember who they played. With the way they're built, they can't bypass winning to market successfully the way goonish teams can. "Watch guys chuck low-percentage shots and get run into" doesn't get bodies through the doors.

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03-17-2017, 06:57 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by Elephant Igloo View Post
I don't really mean to harp on it, but the Hurricanes' pillow-soft approach to hockey doesn't lend itself to quick and easy cliche marketing about "hockey the hard way" or "grit and grind" or any of that. You can't sell that win or lose, the Hurricanes will make teams remember who they played. With the way they're built, they can't bypass winning to market successfully the way goonish teams can. "Watch guys chuck low-percentage shots and get run into" doesn't get bodies through the doors.
They are a bland team with no real identity...

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03-17-2017, 11:49 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
Hope this is not a joke...

Karmanos does not own 100% of the Canes because there are a few minor investors. But he does own a big chunk of the team, so big he can make the decision to sell, move or whatever and other investors will have a choice to follow or sell their part.

Now, there are plenty of teams that have minor investors. To give one example : Maple Leafs owned by both Rogers and Bell. Bell could sell their shares or so could Rogers, whole or just part of it.

When you know the story, what Lebrun meant to say is that Karmanos is looking to sell 100% of his shares in the team. He wanted to remain in control/part-owner, which seems not to be the case anymore.
It depends on the terms of the ownership agreements. Most often partial owners have a voice in deciding whether the team is sold or not, but that doesn't mean they have the option to keep their ownership share if the majority of other owners vote to sell.

i.e. The majority owner can usually sell the entire team, and the partial owners receive their contracted portion of the sale price, whether they like it or not.

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03-18-2017, 12:06 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
It depends on the terms of the ownership agreements. Most often partial owners have a voice in deciding whether the team is sold or not, but that doesn't mean they have the option to keep their ownership share if the majority of other owners vote to sell.

i.e. The majority owner can usually sell the entire team, and the partial owners receive their contracted portion of the sale price, whether they like it or not.
Thank you for that precision kind sir !

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03-18-2017, 12:11 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
It depends on the terms of the ownership agreements. Most often partial owners have a voice in deciding whether the team is sold or not, but that doesn't mean they have the option to keep their ownership share if the majority of other owners vote to sell.

i.e. The majority owner can usually sell the entire team, and the partial owners receive their contracted portion of the sale price, whether they like it or not.
Right. Which in this instance is somewhat even more complicated than normal given the fact that Karmano's does have a considerable number of minority shareholders who would
have to be satisfied.... obviously no idea what the agreements stipulate.... but it might not be quite the easiest or dictatorial type transaction some might be assuming.

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03-18-2017, 12:19 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Right. Which in this instance is somewhat even more complicated than normal given the fact that Karmano's does have a considerable number of minority shareholders who would
have to be satisfied.... obviously no idea what the agreements stipulate.... but it might not be quite the easiest or dictatorial type transaction some might be assuming.

Why not? Unless something forbids him from selling without their permission, he can sell the team as the majority owner.

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03-18-2017, 12:22 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Why not? Unless something forbids him from selling without their permission, he can sell the team as the majority owner.
Sometimes these transactions can be complicated with special clauses & codicils in the shareholders agreements. Particularly when those
minority investments are solicited & acquired under duress as has been the case here. Without seeing the agreement, hard to know for sure.

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03-18-2017, 12:24 PM
  #910
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I'm sure they've made provisions for who holds the controlling interest in the team. I can't see that being a consortium of minority owners even with the methods used to accumulate the minority owners.

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03-18-2017, 12:33 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by BattleBorn View Post
I'm sure they've made provisions for who holds the controlling interest in the team. I can't see that being a consortium of minority owners even with the methods used to accumulate the minority owners.
I wouldnt think so either BB, its Karmanos were talking about, but.... he's been desperate for cash-flow at various times & sometimes desperate people do things they wouldnt normally do as you
know. Im just "throwing it out there". That its "possible" he doesnt have quite the clear lanes out of the state as some assume should he get past the NHL which may or may not be an obstacle.

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03-18-2017, 12:36 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by NCRanger View Post
This is where you'll have folks like tarheelhockey come back and say that I have a grudge against the organization.

The fact is plain and simple, the Hurricanes do a **** poor job with marketing. Not all of it is their fault. The Triangle media virtually ignores them. The rest of the state doesn't even acknowledge their existence.

I've said that the team should partner with some of the local hotels and offer a Saturday night package along with tickets for fans in other parts of the state, where getting to Raleigh isn't exactly doable on a weekday night. In that way, the hotel becomes a partner, the "out-of-towner" who isn't necessarily out of market feels like he or she is part of the team, and enough of them might just allow for a radio affiliate in Greensboro, Charlotte, Asheville, or Wilmington. Even throw a downtown Raleigh restaurant into the mix too. Maybe a shuttle from the restaurant to the arena? Grow your potential business partners and think a little bit outside the box.
That's brilliant IMHO. Pity there aren't more hotels here in Raleigh but this is something that they should absolutely do with say the Rennisance and the Hyatt House, though those are both on the pricey side of the equation for Raleigh.

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Does BCBS still sponsor the "Storm Squad"? What real marketing is there? Gives the opportunity for some cute girls to act like cheerleaders. Ok. Wouldn't it be far better for BCBS to use that sponsorship money and purchase a suite where they can reward their employees with nights at the game or entertain partners? Either way, the same sponsorship money is used to gain more revenue with more people in the building.
I'm not sure, but I know they're still sponsored. Funny enough there used to be a lot more of the local medical industry with boxes and the like (think pre and shortly post-lockout) that have ditched the tickets for a variety of reasons. In the case of the hospital I used to work at there were complaints about the events the hospital had box seats to not being diverse enough and ditching them for the failed experiment of MEAC conference tournament tickets.

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I DO like what they've done with the "Hometown" nights. As a huge supporter of the local craft beer industry, I think that's an excellent use of partnering. They can do that with so much more.
I appreciate the support.

Seriously though agreed 100%. While the homegrown series with the beer is a great idea they also could quite easily have events during the season for the afternoon games where they can have local breweries set up tents before the game in the lot or something along those lines.

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Outside of college "rush" rights, I would avoid doing anything specific with any of the local schools. I mean, there are Carolina fans that will not associate with the Hurricanes because they think they are somehow affiliated with NC State. They should ignore any and all temptations to do anything like that. Someone is going to feel slighted and hold it against the Canes, even if the Canes did nothing wrong.

Another thing they can do (taking from the Rangers here a second and adding to it), is offer single tickets at a slight discount to people who would want to go to the game themselves. The Garden does it to get rid of extra singles, but maybe the Canes could turn it into a semi-social event for single people? Maybe reduce the ticket price by the cost of what parking is. Having lived in the Triangle as a single guy, it was not an easy place to meet people. I think this might have some potential.
I like it. The one thing I'd say is that instead of partnering with a school, just flat out have it be the case where any non-club level ticket that's unsold an hour before game time can be bought by a student with a valid ID for $10 before game time.

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Don't treat fans of opposing teams badly. Really, just don't do it. Many of those opposing fans are relocated to the area. Make fun of New Yorkers on the jumbotron? Instead of those people maybe buying a small package next year because they like hockey, they'll just come back for the two games against the Rangers or Islanders and root even harder against the Canes.

Again, think outside the box and use what the area has, rather than throw their hands up in the air and claim there is not enough corporate and fan support.
They've improved on this account a good bit... thank god.


Last edited by DaveG: 03-18-2017 at 01:02 PM.
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Old
03-18-2017, 12:40 PM
  #913
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I wouldnt think so either BB, its Karmanos were talking about, but.... he's been desperate for cash-flow at various times & sometimes desperate people do things they wouldnt normally do as you
know. Im just "throwing it out there". That its "possible" he doesnt have quite the clear lanes out of the state as some assume should he get past the NHL which may or may not be an obstacle.
I get what you're saying, I just think it's jumping a lot of hurdles to get there. You've got to assume PK was kind of dumb/desperate at a few points and that the minority owners with the controlling interest are happy with the way things are going in Raleigh and wouldn't want to cash out on a sale.

If anything, taking PK out of the decision would make it more likely that they'd move since there would likely be more of the smaller time investors that would like to get out with some profits.

I guess what I'm saying is that the more people you put in charge of the decision, the more likely it is that money is going to win out over civic pride.

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03-18-2017, 12:50 PM
  #914
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I guess what I'm saying is that the more people you put in charge of the decision, the more likely it is that money is going to win out over civic pride.
... yeah, though when it comes to the NHL BOH, guys like Karmanos, I try not to "assume" anything... consider all the angles & then some, expect the unexpected.

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03-18-2017, 02:00 PM
  #915
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When karmanos lost his big "chair" with the governors, i knew at that moment that the end was near.
Maybe he found a buyer to keep the team in Carolina or the team is already sold to Quebecor. Only these 2 options. We will all know the answer in 3 weeks....

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03-18-2017, 02:05 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by Pelle Lindbergh View Post
When karmanos lost his big "chair" with the governors, i knew at that moment that the end was near.
Maybe he found a buyer to keep the team in Carolina or the team is already sold to Quebecor. Only these 2 options. We will all know the answer in 3 weeks....
What makes you so sure that we will have a definite answer in 3 weeks?

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03-18-2017, 02:17 PM
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There is a lot of rumors , that karmanos will not run the team next season. Hoping for the kanes fans that he found a buyer from the area, and at the same time the mayor of Quebec, keep telling that the Nordiques will be back, sooner that people think. Maybe the league just really not want 2 expansions on the same year, it will be easier to get a better draft, with one team by year or its a relocation.

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03-18-2017, 03:13 PM
  #918
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What makes you so sure that we will have a definite answer in 3 weeks?
He said exactly the same thing at this time last year, and about two months before that he "confirmed" that QC had landed an expansion team along with Vegas.

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03-18-2017, 03:48 PM
  #919
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
He said exactly the same thing at this time last year, and about two months before that he "confirmed" that QC had landed an expansion team along with Vegas.
Ahh I remember this actually.

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03-18-2017, 04:00 PM
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I hope that carolina keeps their team, quebec deserves a team but it should be expansion but i dont think so sadly. In from montreal, so i hated the nordiques all my childhood, but they deserve anyway, bettman asked to the new arena its done, and asked for serious owners , that is ok too. The difference between this year and last is that karmanos was still in the council, now they kicked him out a couple of months ago. By the way my favorites teams are montreal and...arizona ! The day they released the jerseys in 96, i bought home amd visitor, and i was always cheering for the yotes in the east, but the way the nhl controlled the team, killed any chance to be good competitors, its so much like my montreal expos in every way.

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Today, 11:05 AM
  #921
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle34412340/

According to the Globe and Mail, the next Canes owner might be... the Communist Chinese!

Now, they wont change much... except that the logo will include a Hammer and Sickle, and each player will have the exact same salary.


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Today, 11:21 AM
  #922
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The biggest complaint I hear is that the advertising isn't broad enough, especially outside of the Raleigh city limits. Hockey fans in Charlotte and Greensboro really aren't happy about it. But I wonder whether the ROI would really justify it. I'd like to be a fly on the wall when the marketing team makes those decisions, to see how exactly they're making their decisions.
Outside of Fox Sports Carolinas, the team does not exist in eastern North Carolina. Could be an ROI thing...

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Today, 11:21 AM
  #923
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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle34412340/

According to the Globe and Mail, the next Canes owner might be... the Communist Chinese!

Now, they wont change much... except that the logo will include a Hammer and Sickle, and each player will have the exact same salary.

Chinese buyers are looking for high-performing teams that can provide a return on investment the article says, guess that excludes the Canes!

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Today, 11:21 AM
  #924
madhi19
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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle34412340/

According to the Globe and Mail, the next Canes owner might be... the Communist Chinese!

Now, they wont change much... except that the logo will include a Hammer and Sickle, and each player will have the exact same salary.


China 2017 version of the Balkan. The mysterious buyer that if you don't want to pay Garry price will always appear out of nowhere. Did they also have investors from Dubai play that part at some point?

It's hard to negotiate if all you have is one serious buyer for three+ dumpster fire. Notice the timing of this story, on the verge of the season ending, and while negotiation for Olympic participation is stalling. There more than one ball in this juggling act.

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Today, 11:21 AM
  #925
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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle34412340/

According to the Globe and Mail, the next Canes owner might be... the Communist Chinese!

Now, they wont change much... except that the logo will include a Hammer and Sickle, and each player will have the exact same salary.


Why all of this ********? If you did not want this, than people in the west should have stopped globalization.

If the Chinese want to buy a NHL team go ahead but they will have to play by the NHL rules. Charles Wang(who is of Asian decent already owns a team.) The Saudis already invest Billions of dollars in the US and have a big hand in the foreign polices of the US.

If a Chinese investor comes over, who really loves the game and wants a team and wants to buy a team, so he can win a Stanley Cup and buys the Vancouver Canucks, for a Billion dollars and invests a crap load of money into the team and a new arena, I have no problem with that.

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