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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Gary Bettman on Flames / Bruins TV Broadcast asks City of Calgary for new Arena

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Old
03-18-2017, 05:53 PM
  #76
DoyleG
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Transit is a need, though. Sports are a nice to have.
If transit was a "need", it would be built already. Complaints be damned.

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Old
03-18-2017, 05:55 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by SgtToody View Post
Most times when politicians talk about "roads" transportation and people/goods moving, that includes other transit projects as well.
and you believe what politicians says.

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Old
03-18-2017, 07:02 PM
  #78
CorbeauNoir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoyleG View Post
If transit was a "need", it would be built already. Complaints be damned.
You realise that the Green Line LRT is a thing that's rapidly being advanced in Calgary, right? The original proposal of an intermediate bus line along the route was scraped so they could move the project into a faster timeline than it was initially supposed to be. They're in the process of ironing out the final route and the type of rail to cut through the downtown segment and then shovels are going to ground. It's of far greater significance to the city than a new arena is right now.

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Old
03-19-2017, 05:52 AM
  #79
DoyleG
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Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir View Post
You realise that the Green Line LRT is a thing that's rapidly being advanced in Calgary, right? The original proposal of an intermediate bus line along the route was scrapped so they could move the project into a faster timeline than it was initially supposed to be. They're in the process of ironing out the final route and the type of rail to cut through the downtown segment and then shovels are going to ground. It's of far greater significance to the city than a new arena is right now.
Being rapidly advanced is irrelevant. If it was as vital as you state as it is, it would've been built 30 years ago since they knew the way that the city was expanding. Planning means nothing since it will still be years before the Green Line is completed.

Edmonton found a way to still build an arena while going on with its LRT expanding in spite of the gripping by people like yourself. Nenshi is only responding the way he does because he has issues dealing with even basically criticism, nevermind what comes out of Bettman's mouth.

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03-19-2017, 03:44 PM
  #80
CorbeauNoir
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Originally Posted by DoyleG View Post
Being rapidly advanced is irrelevant. If it was as vital as you state as it is, it would've been built 30 years ago since they knew the way that the city was expanding. Planning means nothing since it will still be years before the Green Line is completed.

Edmonton found a way to still build an arena while going on with its LRT expanding in spite of the gripping by people like yourself. Nenshi is only responding the way he does because he has issues dealing with even basically criticism, nevermind what comes out of Bettman's mouth.
Then you end up with the done-quick-and-cheap disaster that has been the existing surface-level LRT that makes downtown rush hour commuting a nightmare and unnecessarily exposes the LRT to collision delays. Being vital is not an excuse for poor planning and execution, even if city councils were the Dune-tier prescient supermen you evidently believe them to be. Knowing a city will grow is irrelevant if you don't know WHERE that growth will be. What's the point of building LRT stops if it turns out the biggest growth is happening clear on the opposite end of town? You're transcending common sense just for the sake of taking a petty jab at nenshi.

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Old
03-20-2017, 12:56 AM
  #81
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Boston Globe beat writer looked at the Calgary situation yesterday.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/br...QVP/story.html

Quote:
On the ice, the Battle of Alberta might not be settled until the final game of the season. The Flames and Oilers are neck and neck, scrapping for every point.

Off the ice, the contest is not even close. Rogers Place, Edmonton’s first-year downtown home, is the most luxurious rink in the league. When Joe Louis Arena goes dark after this season, Scotiabank Saddledome will be the NHL’s second-oldest facility after Madison Square Garden. The NHL hopes Calgary’s aging building will soon join Joe Louis in the league’s archives of shuttered rinks.

“I’m hopeful the city and the Flames can be on the same page,” said commissioner Gary Bettman, “so this can move forward as quickly as possible.”

Bettman is not one for hyperbole. Given his position as league steward and de facto spokesman for 31 owners, Bettman is a tire-pumper for all things NHL. Bettman regularly notes how the league and its franchises have never been stronger, even as the product’s intensity has faded on the ice and a team such as the Panthers fights to keep the turnstiles turning.

But Bettman practically spit on the Saddledome during a visit to the arena on Wednesday.

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Old
03-20-2017, 01:00 AM
  #82
SK13
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Originally Posted by jason2020 View Post
Edmonton is really not the a good model as it what 20% private and 80% public it should be more 50/50.
The split is more or less irrelevant since it borrows public money as opposed to using it. By way of ticket tax recoupment and the use of CRL funds, the arena pays for itself entirely within it's first decade. The City loses not one cent.

Also, no property taxes were used. It doesn't impact the budget. No roads would be paved or schools would be opened with that money.

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Old
03-21-2017, 02:25 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
The split is more or less irrelevant since it borrows public money as opposed to using it. By way of ticket tax recoupment and the use of CRL funds, the arena pays for itself entirely within it's first decade. The City loses not one cent.

Also, no property taxes were used. It doesn't impact the budget. No roads would be paved or schools would be opened with that money.
A CRL is property. They just take the property tax from new developments in the zone to fund a project before it eventually gets put back into the city's overall budget. The justification is that the project you're funding with the CRL will be the catalyst for development in that zone.

But they only work when there is new development of buildings that can actually pay enough in property tax to fund them for that period. In Calgary our most successful CRL (for the East Village) has The Bow as its primary contributor while Rogers Place presumably will have the new Stantec building for its CRL anchor. But that means for both CRLs that is a lot of property tax that isn't going towards other city projects.

CalgaryNext didn't have anything like that. The Fieldhouse and arena took up nearly all the area of what could make up the CRL zone so that no other development could possibly fund what is needed. Also while the CRL for the East Village was set to cover remediation costs there (in addition to road improvements, the library, the River Walk etc and other public infrastructure, the West Village CRL was entirely devoted to the private business venture of CalgaryNext meaning a lot of other public costs associated with the development would need to come from the general city tax base.

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Old
03-21-2017, 05:10 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Once the Red Wings move into their new stadium, the Saddledome is literally the oldest building in the league by 10 years aside from Madison Square Garden, which was completely renovated internally.
What blows my mind is that the Honda Centre in Anaheim and SAP Centre in SJ are the next oldest built in 1993. These are expansion teams that I remember coming into the league. The Saddledome is the last arena left that I don't remember as brand new, aside from MSG, which is basically new from the inside these days.

Makes me feel old...

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Old
03-27-2017, 05:22 PM
  #85
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In my view I'm against using PUBLIC tax payer dollars to subsidize a PRIVATE company. What's funny is that so many people in Alberta hate the NDP for running deficits to fund public schools, public health care and public infrastructure. Yet some of them are OK with our tax dollars going to a project of a billionaire who's employee's are paid in the millions. Brilliant!

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03-28-2017, 12:53 PM
  #86
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CalgaryNEXT is 'dead', according to Nenshi; focus on new Flames arena turns to Plan B in Victoria Park

Source: http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/03/27...-victoria-park

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Old
03-28-2017, 01:57 PM
  #87
CorbeauNoir
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Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
CalgaryNEXT is 'dead', according to Nenshi; focus on new Flames arena turns to Plan B in Victoria Park

Source: http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/03/27...-victoria-park
The ironic thing is that, factoring in the massive environmental cleanup and flood mitigation that would have been necessary for CalgaryNext, Bettman will probably get his desperately-wanted replacement for the ancient Roman ruin that apparently is the Saddledome faster starting from scratch with Plan B than if shovels were in the ground for CalgaryNext yesterday.

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