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OT: "NBA needs to protect its product" and reduce back-to-back games - Rivers

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Old
03-19-2017, 07:13 PM
  #26
TOGuy14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgoth Bauglir View Post
I'm not sure what the deal is with these "rest" days. Back in the '80s they played the same number of games a year (82) and teams played back-to-backs, yet star players sitting out games to rest was unheard of. Have players gotten that fragile in recent years? And if so, why?
Parity is at an all time low with these mega teams being formed by players.

The regular season is pointless for 3-4 teams, they are already locked up for the playoffs (GSW, SAS, CLE etc) so they rest their studs for when games actually matter.

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03-19-2017, 08:31 PM
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The NBA has become a joke does anyone really care until Cleveland and Golden State play in the Finals?

The resting of players is going to hurt the next TV contract though. ESPN paid big money for these games and those are the ones the star players are sitting out. No one wants to watch JV teams play each other.

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Old
03-19-2017, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Parity is at an all time low with these mega teams being formed by players.

The regular season is pointless for 3-4 teams, they are already locked up for the playoffs (GSW, SAS, CLE etc) so they rest their studs for when games actually matter.
Was no different than the past. Top 7 W% in the league

Season A: .797, .768, .686, .662, .629, .614, .609
Season B: .793, .720, .695, .671, .634, .610, .598

Season A is this year, season B is 30 years ago.

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Old
03-21-2017, 12:38 AM
  #29
LadyStanley
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http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/03/20/...artner=ya5nbcs
Commissioner says 'resting players' issue will be addressed at upcoming BOG meeting in April.

Quote:
Itís not going to be a simple issue to solve. Expect Silver to sit down with teams, the playersí union, and other stakeholders this summer to try and hammer out a compromise that can work for everyone

Some of the responsibility comes back to the league and itís schedule makers ó you canít slot a team into a Saturday night showcase game for a broadcast partner and have it be the eighth game in 13 days with a couple cross-country flights involved (as was the case with the Warriors and their decision to rest guys). If the NBA wants to put together marquee television matchups and tout them like playoff games, they need to schedule them like playoff games with plenty of rest.
Teams are supposed to notify league and broadcast partners in advance of resting players, or face significant penalties.

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03-21-2017, 10:31 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/03/20/...artner=ya5nbcs
Commissioner says 'resting players' issue will be addressed at upcoming BOG meeting in April.



Teams are supposed to notify league and broadcast partners in advance of resting players, or face significant penalties.
I think the problem for this rests entirely with the league.

Cleveland has an obligation to their own franchise. They don't care if someone in LA paid thousands of dollars to see LeBron play. Those aren't even their home fans.

This team is built to win a championship, and fresh legs is a part of that. Clevaland has a nice comfortable lead in the league, they have afforded themselves the opportunity to do things like rest their star players.

Also San Antonio has been doing this for years now. How many times has Pop listed someone like Duncan as "DNP - Old"?

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Old
03-21-2017, 11:47 AM
  #31
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I don't get why they wait till the end of October to start the season. Start it around the 10th when the NHL does, and look at all the extra days you've created.

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Old
03-21-2017, 11:51 AM
  #32
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If you're gonna your rest players, at least rest them at home games.

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03-21-2017, 12:03 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgoth Bauglir View Post
I'm not sure what the deal is with these "rest" days. Back in the '80s they played the same number of games a year (82) and teams played back-to-backs, yet star players sitting out games to rest was unheard of. Have players gotten that fragile in recent years? And if so, why?
I don't think its "fragile" but more that coaches and teams more cognizant of this stuff.
I actually think there are LESS back-to-backs now than there were in the '80s, which may be why the back-to-backs NOW seem more taxing.

My comparison is that the 1985-86 Boston Celtics (I lived there then) played 27 back-to-backs (54 games total). Why I went back and looked this up...????
The 2016-17 Cleveland Cavaliers play 14 back to backs (28 games total). So the "novelty" of back to backs is more now. If starters rested a bunch of 2nd games on b-t-b's they would have missed a third of the season in the 80's.

You are right about the stars not sitting out in the 80's. On that same 85-86 Celtics team, Bird played 82 games. He started 81 of them, did not start game #79. He played 31 minutes even in that game, and 37, 28 and 32 minutes in the last 3 regular season games, which were meaningless in standings (they finished 10 games ahead in Eastern Conference and 5 games up on the Lakers). Bird's minutes per game for the regular season were as follows:

20-29 minutes - 6 times
30-39 minutes - 38 times
40+ minutes - 38 times

I think it is more that the expectations of the league, coaches and fellow players are different. McHale sat with injury in February, but played 68 games. Parish - 81 games, Ainge 80, DJ 78, Sichting 82, Even Walton with his fragile feet played 80 games. But I do not think it is that today's players are more fragile. The problem is that if team x rests their players, then team y should too, to avoid any competitive advantage. I cannot think of any team in the 80's that rested anyone, except maybe the last game or two of the regular season. I looked at the Celtics first because I knew that team well, and knew they they were head and shoulders ahead as far as record that year. If any team would have rested, that was the team in my mind.

Pops started this (not faulting him, just fact), and it has grown. From a team competitive view, it makes sense, but not from a fan/entertainment view. Tomorrow see The Beatles vs. The Rolling Stones... nope, you bought your ticket but we switched bands - its The Monkees vs. 1/2 of the Stones. No refunds.
I am old.


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Old
03-21-2017, 12:34 PM
  #34
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If you're gonna your rest players, at least rest them at home games.
Why would you try to screw your home fans over? That makes no sense

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Old
03-21-2017, 12:41 PM
  #35
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More rests days = longer season = more complaining from the PA\ownership\fans saying the season is too long. No win situation unless owners agree to play maybe 2 less games per season.

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Old
03-21-2017, 12:52 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Morgoth Bauglir View Post
Funny, I don't recall Bird or Magic or Jordan missing playoff runs because they played the full 82. It simply wasn't an issue back then. Are players suddenly more vulnerable to injuries now? I thought we had 30+ years of sports medicine behind us and you're telling me durability has gotten WORSE?
Injuries played a big role in the back end of Bird's career. He was never as dominant after his first 9 seasons as he missed his 10th season for foot surgery and had a bad back most of his last few years, retiring after 13.

There are plenty of egs in the past of injuries to NBA players. Bill Walton, Ralph Sampson, Bernard King, etc.

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Old
03-21-2017, 10:13 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Morgoth Bauglir View Post
And? None of those days were "rest" days. They missed a small number of games to minor injuries (that's normal), none of them were rested on back-to-backs: If they were healthy they played.

Now, instead of dodging the issue AGAIN, how about explaining why after 30+ years of improvements in sports medicine players are suddenly LESS durable than they were 30+ years ago.
In 1990-92, the Blazers had Jerome Kersey... 6'7", could shoot some, and out-hustled everyone. At that time, it was kind of easy for him to outhustle most of his men. In the meantime, most teams had a power forward and a center who were expected to post up on defenses.

I'm currently watching Milwaukee at Portland. This means Giannis Antetokounmpo. Heck, Milwaukee has a 4 and a 5 who look like the most active players on the court right now. Post players are expected to guard against 3-pointers, guards are expected to check back to rebound... this really doesn't compare to 25-30 years ago (I'm trying to imagine Kevin Duckworth on the floor in today's game). The game moves a lot faster. That's partly because of more mobile tall players... and that does have an effect on bodies.

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Old
03-21-2017, 10:18 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
I don't get why they wait till the end of October to start the season. Start it around the 10th when the NHL does, and look at all the extra days you've created.
It would appear to minimize sharing the calendar with the NFL. Which might beg a question about the NHL.

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Old
03-22-2017, 12:14 PM
  #39
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I agree, they have to do something. They play late October to mid April, why not have something where teams don't play 2 nights in a row? You could still get your 82 game season in that way as well.

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03-22-2017, 02:02 PM
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Just looking at the Warriors schedule from the last time they rested their players and I totally understand why they did it.

On March 2nd they had a game in Chicago. I'm assuming they just flew from Chicago to New York for their game on March 5th instead of flying back to the Bay Area. After the Knicks game they had to fly down to Atlanta for a game the next night. They then had a day off but had to fly from Atlanta back home to play a game against Boston on the 8th. Then they spend the 9th traveling to Minneapolis for a game on the 10th and then they finish the stretch with a flight overnight to San Antonio for a game on the 11th.

5 games in 7 days. 5,583 miles of air travel. 12 hours and 34 minutes spent on a plane. Played in three different time zones. And the NBA wonders why they decided to rest players in the last game of that stretch? Don't make a stupid, awful schedule like that.

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Old
03-24-2017, 07:04 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCSPounder View Post
In 1990-92, the Blazers had Jerome Kersey... 6'7", could shoot some, and out-hustled everyone. At that time, it was kind of easy for him to outhustle most of his men. In the meantime, most teams had a power forward and a center who were expected to post up on defenses.

I'm currently watching Milwaukee at Portland. This means Giannis Antetokounmpo. Heck, Milwaukee has a 4 and a 5 who look like the most active players on the court right now. Post players are expected to guard against 3-pointers, guards are expected to check back to rebound... this really doesn't compare to 25-30 years ago (I'm trying to imagine Kevin Duckworth on the floor in today's game). The game moves a lot faster. That's partly because of more mobile tall players... and that does have an effect on bodies.
Not to mention 20 years ago each team maybe had 2-3 guys who could shoot the three, so you only needed to defend inside the key. Now if you have 2-3 guys on the floor who can shoot the 3 people say there isn't enough spacing out there. Needs to be so much more effort defensively on every trip than there was a long time ago.

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03-24-2017, 08:08 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Parity is at an all time low with these mega teams being formed by players.
I think it's been recently shown conclusively that parity is bad in sports. The NFL has almost total parity and fans have lost interest with ratings going down. People pay $$ to see domination, they want epic teams not a league full of average teams. Everyone hates the Yankees but when they dominated everybody watched

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03-24-2017, 08:30 AM
  #43
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I think it's been recently shown conclusively that parity is bad in sports. The NFL has almost total parity and fans have lost interest with ratings going down. People pay $$ to see domination, they want epic teams not a league full of average teams. Everyone hates the Yankees but when they dominated everybody watched
Yeah, the one team. Every league should be cut down to maybe 10 teams, all the biggest markets with total free agency from day 1, and no more Edmonton Oiler type dynasties, because it's tiny little Edmonton way up in nowhere.

If you're going to have a cross continental league, in cities big and small, in various time zones and all that, you have to have some kind of equalizing factor, or just get rid of more than half the league. Or, have it like it was back in the Oiler dynasty days, or the last Canadien dynasty, when free agency wasn't really a thing yet, and if you wanted to, you could keep a team together for a decade because players had little choice.

Anyway, the players have more power in the NBA today then they ever have, so you'll end up seeing guys have rest days. They have a lot of money invested into them, so you want to keep your investment healthy. Especially in the NBA, where 1 player can have a huge impact on a game because he's on the court 75% of the time, you pretty much know what team has a chance to win. You don't see every team resting players en masse like the Spurs, Cavs, or Warriors do.

Should be an interesting negotiation for the NBA. A lot of moving parts, and who will blink?

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03-24-2017, 09:44 AM
  #44
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Should be an interesting negotiation for the NBA. A lot of moving parts, and who will blink?
Silver is a pragmatic guy, I think he's going to make sure the schedule going forward has no back to backs for big game dates. In return, he'll expect every healthy guy to dress on national games. If not it'll be a big fine, and they you'll get players sitting for "undisclosed injuries" and it'll be back to square 1

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03-24-2017, 12:08 PM
  #45
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The NBA is an oddity. People love the domination by the good teams and the best stars and you dont really see NBA fans clamoring for parity as they like the premier Finals matchups. You dont see this mindset with football and hockey though.

Part of me has always thus wondered if parity really does drive interest. Is the NBA huge despite parity, or does its lack of parity help its appeal?

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Old
03-24-2017, 12:48 PM
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It's not a matter of clamoring one particular team, it's a matter of being entertained with greatness. Super teams would do very well for the NHL or NFL in terms of ratings

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03-24-2017, 12:55 PM
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If I paid a ton for my family of 4 to catch, say, LeBron come to town, and they end up sitting him for rest, I'd be really pissed.

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Old
03-24-2017, 05:03 PM
  #48
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I think it's been recently shown conclusively that parity is bad in sports. The NFL has almost total parity and fans have lost interest with ratings going down. People pay $$ to see domination, they want epic teams not a league full of average teams. Everyone hates the Yankees but when they dominated everybody watched
The NFL has had 4 different QBs win the AFC for the last like 15 years. Its parity is a myth.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/1...ter-parity-nfl

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