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UPDATE 4/12 - Barclays Center pitch would return Islanders to Nassau Coliseum

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Old
03-20-2017, 12:27 PM
  #101
Bood12
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
I disagree with you here. They can draw in Nassau County, but that is not so much the issue. The issue is the arena lacks the amenities of new arenas, and that is what they need. They were in a terrible lease, and the County would not budge on their demands.
no they can't draw in Nassau, build the greatest arena with all the amenites and after the first couple of years it is going back to 10,000 a night

it is Brooklyn or bust, building an Arena in Queens for the Islanders is insane

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03-20-2017, 01:19 PM
  #102
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For anyone to even believe that someone is going to build a $800 million plus arena in the suburbs of Nassau county in Belmont for a team that can't draw flies is so ridiculous it's not even funny...especially now with all these new arenas all over NY/NJ...folks it ain't never gonna happen....if Brooklyn doesn't pan out then the Isles will be out of the area...book it

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03-20-2017, 01:26 PM
  #103
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For anyone to even believe that someone is going to build a $800 million plus arena in the suburbs of Nassau county in Belmont for a team that can't draw flies is so ridiculous it's not even funny...especially now with all these new arenas all over NY/NJ...folks it ain't never gonna happen....if Brooklyn doesn't pan out then the Isles will be out of the area...book it
If I were forced to make a prediction this is probably where I'd land, but damn that's a lot of certainty considering that there are human beings involved.

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03-21-2017, 12:08 AM
  #104
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For anyone to even believe that someone is going to build a $800 million plus arena in the suburbs of Nassau county in Belmont for a team that can't draw flies is so ridiculous it's not even funny...especially now with all these new arenas all over NY/NJ...folks it ain't never gonna happen....if Brooklyn doesn't pan out then the Isles will be out of the area...book it
"book it"

I'll take that bet.

As an Islander fan, I almost never have reason to be optimistic. But... I don't see how the NHL or the Islanders will leave a TV contract of the size they have. (NY Islanders TV Deal..pretty sure this is still accurate) Sixth largest in the league, an average of $27m through the 2030-31 season and even then they might get a comparable deal if a network like SNY still has holes to fill in their winter lineup and there is more than one legitimate bidder.

Gun to my head, I don't know where in NY the Islanders will be playing in 5 years - but I do have a good feeling it'll be in NY.

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03-21-2017, 01:53 AM
  #105
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They would be nuts to leave NYC. A share of the territorial rights is worth a fortune.

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03-21-2017, 08:37 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by tailgunner View Post
For anyone to even believe that someone is going to build a $800 million plus arena in the suburbs of Nassau county in Belmont for a team that can't draw flies is so ridiculous it's not even funny...especially now with all these new arenas all over NY/NJ...folks it ain't never gonna happen....if Brooklyn doesn't pan out then the Isles will be out of the area...book it
Just stop. You've tried this like 5 time saying the same crap.
1. An arena in Nassau is not running $800million. More like $450m.
2. The fact that Malkin (Isles minority owner)Dolan, Sterling, and Oak View are involved tell you that is likely more than just an arena (Sterling is a property developer, Malkin made his fortune with some mega-malls in Europe), and they see ways to make money on it.
3. Having a second arena where MSG group is involved in booking shows is very beneficial to MSG. MSG is one of, if not the, busiest venue in the country. This would allow them to move some dates to the new arena, and the 1-2 offering can box out Barclays-NVMC.


Last edited by nyscene: 03-21-2017 at 09:25 AM. Reason: cleaned up cell phone crap.
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03-21-2017, 09:18 AM
  #107
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The Islanders are a financial black hole!! Run for the hills, Belmont and Citifield!!

Close your doors Nassau Coliseum!!!!

RUN FOREST, RUN!!!!!!!!!



https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeoza.../#3af93fff210d

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03-21-2017, 12:13 PM
  #108
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The Islanders are a financial black hole!! Run for the hills, Belmont and Citifield!!

Close your doors Nassau Coliseum!!!!

RUN FOREST, RUN!!!!!!!!!



https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeoza.../#3af93fff210d
... about that:

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I was wrong. The exact opposite is true. The Barclays Center posted an operating profit of $46 million with the Islanders for the year 2015-16, versus an operating profit of $38 million in 2014-15.

I inadvertently inserted minus signs instead of plus signs. A spokesperson for the arena operating company gracously called me today to point that out.

As for my premise that the arena's operating loss would explain why the Nets want the Islanders out of the arena, throw that out too.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeoza.../#3dc75e363e74

Uhh, oops?

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03-21-2017, 05:15 PM
  #109
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So why are the islanders even leaving then? Who's to say Belmont doesn't become a loss leader if it doesn't get enough concerts etc. A reno for the rink this summer would cost half of a new arena.

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03-22-2017, 10:24 AM
  #110
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So why are the islanders even leaving then? Who's to say Belmont doesn't become a loss leader if it doesn't get enough concerts etc. A reno for the rink this summer would cost half of a new arena.
Why are the Isles leaving? In short?

1. Arena wasn't made for hockey -- has far too many horrible seats, and isnt easily (read: financially) possible to fix.

2. Both the team and the arena have an opt out clause available to allow team to move

3. As secondary tenant (or sometimes even tertiary) you dont have priority to scheduling.

4. Ice is bad, and to fix it -- would cost $$$$$ and result in too much downtime for the arena

5. Core of Isles fans (and the team), live on Long Island, so most take the train into Brooklyn. Homes, work, and practices are held on LI -- but you need to trek into Brooklyn for games. Long Island residents are car people -- having to take a 75+min train ride into the depths of brooklyn each way is not appealing in the least -- especially since many fans may already ride the LIRR to NYC and back.

**The huge anticipated selling point of having the Isles arena close to 80billion people in the tristate arena and mass transit, turned out to be crap.** Whether the Isles are playing in Uniondale or Barclays, nobody is coming to the games.

6. Attendance, as I suspected, would be in the toilet. They are at the bottom of the league. Would be curious to know the STH stats from year one to year two. Prices to get into the game on many weeknights are $7-$10 on Stubhub. Complete disaster.

The challenge is trying to find a sucke--- I mean a financial backer to fund an arena where the Isles are the primary tenant. I wouldn't do it.

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03-22-2017, 11:43 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Bones45 View Post
Why are the Isles leaving? In short?

1. Arena wasn't made for hockey -- has far too many horrible seats, and isnt easily (read: financially) possible to fix.

2. Both the team and the arena have an opt out clause available to allow team to move

3. As secondary tenant (or sometimes even tertiary) you dont have priority to scheduling.

4. Ice is bad, and to fix it -- would cost $$$$$ and result in too much downtime for the arena

5. Core of Isles fans (and the team), live on Long Island, so most take the train into Brooklyn. Homes, work, and practices are held on LI -- but you need to trek into Brooklyn for games. Long Island residents are car people -- having to take a 75+min train ride into the depths of brooklyn each way is not appealing in the least -- especially since many fans may already ride the LIRR to NYC and back.

**The huge anticipated selling point of having the Isles arena close to 80billion people in the tristate arena and mass transit, turned out to be crap.** Whether the Isles are playing in Uniondale or Barclays, nobody is coming to the games.

6. Attendance, as I suspected, would be in the toilet. They are at the bottom of the league. Would be curious to know the STH stats from year one to year two. Prices to get into the game on many weeknights are $7-$10 on Stubhub. Complete disaster.

The challenge is trying to find a sucke--- I mean a financial backer to fund an arena where the Isles are the primary tenant. I wouldn't do it.
I am guessing this new stadium will be at least 300m plus before all the bells and whistles, and will face the typical nassau politics as well. I think even if the Isles do well, being the suburban team is a huge disadvantage for any team. I agree with with you.

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03-22-2017, 03:53 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
I am guessing this new stadium will be at least 300m plus before all the bells and whistles, and will face the typical nassau politics as well. I think even if the Isles do well, being the suburban team is a huge disadvantage for any team. I agree with with you.
Just a couple of things.
1) if the project gets built at Belmont, it will be on state-owned land and the county/town can't do squat.

2) if the project gets built, part of it will be converting the existing LIRR station to a full service stop, so it will be accessible via mass transit from the city and the island.

3) the location is nearly ideal for one of co-owner Malkin's retail concepts -- the ones that helped build his fortune. His company, Value Retail, puts high end shopping districts on the outskirts of major cities, such as London, Rome and elsewhere, turning them into shopping tourism destinations (yeah, it's a thing -- Google it) and I'd venture that it's a near certainty that one of these will be part of the project.

4) booking acts will not be an issue, because the backer of this project, if reporting is correct, is Azoff MSG as well as Oak View, which books arenas across the country, including MSG, which will be feeding it acts.

5) I'm not sure that the Islanders are actually going to do any of this. Now that Forbes has figured out the difference between a + and a -, what's become clear is that a lot of what was reported earlier was posturing. Barclays had an operating profit from the Islanders (depending on what the Nets brought in, the team is, in fact, the second or third largest source of profit for the entire building). Earlier in the year, Forbes reported that the Islanders also had an operating profit -- for the first time in a decade (or likely more as the information they published only went back 10 years). So, while the building might suck aesthetically, it works for both parties financially, at least so far.

6) if the relationship does end, it's most likely because the Islanders think that they can get a bigger piece of pie in a new building that's backed by major development and arena management companies, per the reporting. Barclays is likely to try to do anything it can to stop that because a Belmont building as is being discussed is a nightmare scenario for them. It would put Azoff MSG in a dominant position in the market, killing NVMC, and likely eating up a big piece of Barclays' business as well. Where do you think acts would rather play --- a combination of The Rock, MSG and Belmont (all Oak View/Azoff MSG clients or properties), or just Barclays? MSG wanting to stick a huge knife in Barclays' back is probably a good piece of their motivation for pursuing this.

7) Don't miss the forest for the trees. There's a lot more on the table here than just an arena for a hockey team. Considering the project that Azoff MSG/Oak View is building in Las Vegas, it would not surprise me if they went ahead and built some type of large venue even without the Islanders.

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03-22-2017, 06:06 PM
  #113
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Just a couple of things.
1) if the project gets built at Belmont, it will be on state-owned land and the county/town can't do squat.

2) if the project gets built, part of it will be converting the existing LIRR station to a full service stop, so it will be accessible via mass transit from the city and the island.

3) the location is nearly ideal for one of co-owner Malkin's retail concepts -- the ones that helped build his fortune. His company, Value Retail, puts high end shopping districts on the outskirts of major cities, such as London, Rome and elsewhere, turning them into shopping tourism destinations (yeah, it's a thing -- Google it) and I'd venture that it's a near certainty that one of these will be part of the project.

4) booking acts will not be an issue, because the backer of this project, if reporting is correct, is Azoff MSG as well as Oak View, which books arenas across the country, including MSG, which will be feeding it acts.

5) I'm not sure that the Islanders are actually going to do any of this. Now that Forbes has figured out the difference between a + and a -, what's become clear is that a lot of what was reported earlier was posturing. Barclays had an operating profit from the Islanders (depending on what the Nets brought in, the team is, in fact, the second or third largest source of profit for the entire building). Earlier in the year, Forbes reported that the Islanders also had an operating profit -- for the first time in a decade (or likely more as the information they published only went back 10 years). So, while the building might suck aesthetically, it works for both parties financially, at least so far.

6) if the relationship does end, it's most likely because the Islanders think that they can get a bigger piece of pie in a new building that's backed by major development and arena management companies, per the reporting. Barclays is likely to try to do anything it can to stop that because a Belmont building as is being discussed is a nightmare scenario for them. It would put Azoff MSG in a dominant position in the market, killing NVMC, and likely eating up a big piece of Barclays' business as well. Where do you think acts would rather play --- a combination of The Rock, MSG and Belmont (all Oak View/Azoff MSG clients or properties), or just Barclays? MSG wanting to stick a huge knife in Barclays' back is probably a good piece of their motivation for pursuing this.

7) Don't miss the forest for the trees. There's a lot more on the table here than just an arena for a hockey team. Considering the project that Azoff MSG/Oak View is building in Las Vegas, it would not surprise me if they went ahead and built some type of large venue even without the Islanders.
I could see Willets West mall going east of Citi Field, IF the Isles decide to move next to Citi Field.

http://www.timesledger.com/stories/2...7_03_10_q.html

Quote:
The new plan, a joint venture between then Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Sterling Equities, expanded the project onto 40 extra acres of public parkland and put the construction of a mega-mall at the forefront. According to Monserrate, these plans include a contractual escape clause that allows the developers to opt out of constructing any affordable housing, instead of guaranteeing it. The new plan also gives developers 23 acres of property for $1...[/B]

[B]Members from the East Elmhurst Corona Alliance, the Black Institute and Monserrate said they would not give up the fight for affordable housing and will show up at the Court of Appeals in White Plains on April 25, the date of oral arguments in the ongoing litigation over the use of parkland for the project. The Willets Point project has been on hold awaiting the resolution of the court case.

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03-23-2017, 12:47 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by denis View Post
Just a couple of things.
1) if the project gets built at Belmont, it will be on state-owned land and the county/town can't do squat.

2) if the project gets built, part of it will be converting the existing LIRR station to a full service stop, so it will be accessible via mass transit from the city and the island.

3) the location is nearly ideal for one of co-owner Malkin's retail concepts -- the ones that helped build his fortune. His company, Value Retail, puts high end shopping districts on the outskirts of major cities, such as London, Rome and elsewhere, turning them into shopping tourism destinations (yeah, it's a thing -- Google it) and I'd venture that it's a near certainty that one of these will be part of the project.

4) booking acts will not be an issue, because the backer of this project, if reporting is correct, is Azoff MSG as well as Oak View, which books arenas across the country, including MSG, which will be feeding it acts.

5) I'm not sure that the Islanders are actually going to do any of this. Now that Forbes has figured out the difference between a + and a -, what's become clear is that a lot of what was reported earlier was posturing. Barclays had an operating profit from the Islanders (depending on what the Nets brought in, the team is, in fact, the second or third largest source of profit for the entire building). Earlier in the year, Forbes reported that the Islanders also had an operating profit -- for the first time in a decade (or likely more as the information they published only went back 10 years). So, while the building might suck aesthetically, it works for both parties financially, at least so far.

6) if the relationship does end, it's most likely because the Islanders think that they can get a bigger piece of pie in a new building that's backed by major development and arena management companies, per the reporting. Barclays is likely to try to do anything it can to stop that because a Belmont building as is being discussed is a nightmare scenario for them. It would put Azoff MSG in a dominant position in the market, killing NVMC, and likely eating up a big piece of Barclays' business as well. Where do you think acts would rather play --- a combination of The Rock, MSG and Belmont (all Oak View/Azoff MSG clients or properties), or just Barclays? MSG wanting to stick a huge knife in Barclays' back is probably a good piece of their motivation for pursuing this.

7) Don't miss the forest for the trees. There's a lot more on the table here than just an arena for a hockey team. Considering the project that Azoff MSG/Oak View is building in Las Vegas, it would not surprise me if they went ahead and built some type of large venue even without the Islanders.
Interesting to consider. I think if the Islanders make barclays money they have no reason to leave. Get a new ice plant, do a reno(I know, but it should be done.)

Islanders have leverage, and they should create new fans.

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03-23-2017, 03:35 PM
  #115
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Where is Belmont in relation to NYC?

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03-23-2017, 04:04 PM
  #116
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Belmont Park sits on the border of Queens and Nassau County (about 10-11 miles west of the Coliseum)

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03-23-2017, 05:56 PM
  #117
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Interesting to consider. I think if the Islanders make barclays money they have no reason to leave. Get a new ice plant, do a reno(I know, but it should be done.)

Islanders have leverage, and they should create new fans.
Oh create new fans! Why didn't they think of that?

While Barclay's makes money on the Islanders they make move money on concerts so their logic is that they could make more money without the Islanders. Also a new ice plant will take a long time to install and they don't want to give up the entire summer to do it.

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03-24-2017, 08:38 AM
  #118
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Oh create new fans! Why didn't they think of that?

While Barclay's makes money on the Islanders they make move money on concerts so their logic is that they could make more money without the Islanders. Also a new ice plant will take a long time to install and they don't want to give up the entire summer to do it.
This is all speculation on your part. I don't think barclays wants to lose a tenant.

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03-24-2017, 09:16 AM
  #119
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Oh create new fans! Why didn't they think of that?

While Barclay's makes money on the Islanders they make move money on concerts so their logic is that they could make more money without the Islanders. Also a new ice plant will take a long time to install and they don't want to give up the entire summer to do it.
That's a nonsense argument. Yes, they make more money on concerts, but having the Islanders in the building has almost zero impact on their ability to get more concerts. The building is still dark around 120 nights a year, so there are plenty of open dates for them to book whatever they want ... or can. Also, per published numbers, the year before the Islanders got to Barclays, it booked 36 concerts. Last year, with the Islanders in residence, it booked 47.

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03-24-2017, 12:17 PM
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Oh create new fans! Why didn't they think of that?

While Barclay's makes money on the Islanders they make move money on concerts so their logic is that they could make more money without the Islanders. Also a new ice plant will take a long time to install and they don't want to give up the entire summer to do it.
Most indoor venues tend to have slow summers anyway, as many concerts tend to move to outdoor venues in the warmer weather. I dont think BC would be giving up all too much.

May/June/July and the early part of August are pretty dark at the BC with a couple exceptions. There's a few windows of inactivity in there that could accommodate that kind of work.

http://www.barclayscenter.com/events/event-calendar

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03-24-2017, 02:58 PM
  #121
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There won't be a monopoly. Unlike the Islanders, there are at least a respectable amount of Devils fans.
Still a monopoly. Devils are New Jerseys team, not New Yorks, never forget that.

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03-24-2017, 03:01 PM
  #122
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For anyone to even believe that someone is going to build a $800 million plus arena in the suburbs of Nassau county in Belmont for a team that can't draw flies is so ridiculous it's not even funny...especially now with all these new arenas all over NY/NJ...folks it ain't never gonna happen....if Brooklyn doesn't pan out then the Isles will be out of the area...book it
if there is any city in North America that can handle so many arenas. It's New York.

We're sitting here with 96% filled capacity so far this season. Yet we are drawing flies?

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03-25-2017, 04:46 PM
  #123
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if there is any city in North America that can handle so many arenas. It's New York.

We're sitting here with 96% filled capacity so far this season. Yet we are drawing flies?
You're looking at road attendance, not attendance in Brooklyn. NYI are drawing 82.5% at home, roughly 13,000

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03-26-2017, 12:12 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Cacciaguida View Post
if there is any city in North America that can handle so many arenas. It's New York.

We're sitting here with 96% filled capacity so far this season. Yet we are drawing flies?


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You're looking at road attendance, not attendance in Brooklyn. NYI are drawing 82.5% at home, roughly 13,000

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03-26-2017, 01:05 PM
  #125
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You're looking at road attendance, not attendance in Brooklyn. NYI are drawing 82.5% at home, roughly 13,000
it is in reality less than that, I am sure the islanders are fudging their numbers, I am pretty sure they are basically "buying" their own tickets and re-selling them on Stubhub and on the ticketmaster exchange, so they are selling them at a tremendous discount to save face from the season ticket holders who do not like seeing tickets sold by the team for less than they are buying them for

look at this ticketmaster interactive chart for the game against the Predators tommorow, for a team who is right in a playoff race, it is embaressing if this game is anything less than 100% capacity as I am sure any other team in the NHL would be in this situation, I would be willing to bet the Islanders sold maybe about 8-9,000 tickets(and that is going to be the actual attendance), but I am sure when the attendance is announced they are going to say it is like 12,000 or something

http://www1.ticketmaster.com/new-yor...4&minorcatid=9

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