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NHL Players in the 1990s

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03-15-2017, 01:05 PM
  #1
Brewsky
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NHL Players in the 1990s

I was a huge fan of the NHL in the 1990's and transformed my own NHL game to reflect that decade. However, I've created players using childhood (mostly foggy) memories and sites with advanced stats like Hockey-Reference - problem is it's not the same as people who watched/followed them in that era.

So I've come to the HF historians to help me decide who's rating or potential is too high or low - and other things not captured in stats such as who in the 90's was the fastest, strongest, best defensive forward, best shot, best defensive d-man.

Any and all discussion is encouraged.

CENTERS






LEFT WINGERS




RIGHT WINGERS





DEFENSEMEN







GOALIES



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03-15-2017, 01:12 PM
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JackSlater
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Does this take into account the player's whole career, or just their play in the 90s?

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03-15-2017, 01:15 PM
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Brewsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Does this take into account the player's whole career, or just their play in the 90s?
Great question I should've clarified - 1990's only (and potential is based on what we know the player would become in the following decade).

It's why you see guys like Lidstrom lower than where they would be had I taken into consideration their whole career (though his potential is Franchise as we know what he became in the 2000s).

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03-15-2017, 08:32 PM
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Ishdul
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How does the Potential work with the Franchise/Elite/etc ratings? I see Jagr, Lindros and the goalies with MED potential but Franchise rankings and it seems a bit odd, but I don't know if it's meant as room for improvement, etc.

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Old
03-16-2017, 08:51 AM
  #5
Brewsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishdul View Post
How does the Potential work with the Franchise/Elite/etc ratings? I see Jagr, Lindros and the goalies with MED potential but Franchise rankings and it seems a bit odd, but I don't know if it's meant as room for improvement, etc.
There's 2 components.

1) Red, Yellow, Green: Indicates how likely they are to reach their potential. Red is low probability, yellow is medium, green is high.

2) The rankings go as follows: Franchise (highest, generational), Elite (superstar), Top 6 F, Top 9 F, Bottom F, AHLer

D-Men: Franchise, Elite, Top 4 D, Top 6 D, 7th D, AHLer

Goalie: Franchsie, Elite, Starter, Fringe Starter, Backup, Fringe Backup, AHLer

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03-16-2017, 10:49 AM
  #6
Hawksfan2828
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LOL at Denis Savard being at 24 years old.

Denis Savard was a franchise player and his rating at 24 should be around 90-92.

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03-16-2017, 11:04 AM
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Brewsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
LOL at Denis Savard being at 24 years old.

Denis Savard was a franchise player and his rating at 24 should be around 90-92.
Ignore the age as I made all of them young so you could enjoy numerous years in Franchise Mode.

It's moreso their overall based ONLY on their play in the 1990's, and their potential during the 90's and beyond.

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03-16-2017, 11:58 AM
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Three players who strike me as being a bit too high are Gretzky, Hawerchuk and Neely. Gretzky should be among the very top 90s forwards, but I can't see him ahead of Jagr or equal to Lemieux unless heavy emphasis is placed on health. Hawerchuk is arguable where he is, but he had few prime years in the 90s and faded very quickly. Neely really depends on health. If he is healthy the he s likely higher. If not, then I would take some guys like Recchi or Mogilny before him. Overall the ratings for the vast majority of the players make sense.

I am a bit confused by the potential ratings, though I don't think that they are that important. If w factr in potential into the 2000s, then I can't see how Lidstrom could be rated with lower potential than Bourque or Chelios.

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03-16-2017, 12:20 PM
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Brewsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Three players who strike me as being a bit too high are Gretzky, Hawerchuk and Neely. Gretzky should be among the very top 90s forwards, but I can't see him ahead of Jagr or equal to Lemieux unless heavy emphasis is placed on health. Hawerchuk is arguable where he is, but he had few prime years in the 90s and faded very quickly. Neely really depends on health. If he is healthy the he s likely higher. If not, then I would take some guys like Recchi or Mogilny before him. Overall the ratings for the vast majority of the players make sense.

I am a bit confused by the potential ratings, though I don't think that they are that important. If w factr in potential into the 2000s, then I can't see how Lidstrom could be rated with lower potential than Bourque or Chelios.
Gretzky I have that high as he was the highest point getter of the 90's from 1990-91 to 1998-99.

Neely yes, I took into consideration his durability, so I have rated guys like Neely and Lemieux lower at durability, so sure if you draft them they'll play great, but how many healthy seasons you'll get from them in this fantasy draft scenario will make you question if you build a team around them.

Lidstrom actually has higher potential than Chelios (same as Bourque). I only made Bourque and Lidstrom as generational d-men, the rest at their highest are elite. Think of Franchise as 5 stars, and elite as 4.5 stars.

Hawerchuk - maybe I should change is potential to Top 6 Red, which means he'll be a top 6 but it will be hard for him to maintain that status throughout a 10 year period.

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03-16-2017, 01:55 PM
  #10
Peter Tosh
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If I where you, I'd pick a tighter time span than ten years. Gretzky 1990 and Gretzky 1999 are two different players.

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03-16-2017, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewsky View Post
Ignore the age as I made all of them young so you could enjoy numerous years in Franchise Mode.

It's moreso their overall based ONLY on their play in the 1990's, and their potential during the 90's and beyond.
Why don't you just use EA's ratings from the original NHL?

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03-16-2017, 03:22 PM
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Johnny Engine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
Why don't you just use EA's ratings from the original NHL?
I would imagine it's because the scale has varied wildly over the course of the series.

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03-16-2017, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
I would imagine it's because the scale has varied wildly over the course of the series.
Well the first one came out in what? 1993, I would imagine those ratings would be good enough considering the OP is looking at the 90's only, that and factor the ages, I think it would be pretty accurate.

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03-16-2017, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
Well the first one came out in what? 1993, I would imagine those ratings would be good enough considering the OP is looking at the 90's only, that and factor the ages, I think it would be pretty accurate.
I mean the rating scale itself. The 1993 games included ratings that stretched from the 90s all the way down to single digits, including Shawn Chambers' infamous score of 0. The most recent game, IIRC, doesn't go much further below the 70s, so they aren't equivalent.

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Old
03-17-2017, 08:18 AM
  #15
Brewsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Tosh View Post
If I where you, I'd pick a tighter time span than ten years. Gretzky 1990 and Gretzky 1999 are two different players.
It's more of a weighted average to their better years and their body of work overall during that decade. That's like saying Hasek shouldn't be the highest rated goalie because he wasn't good in 91, 92 and 93.

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03-17-2017, 08:32 AM
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You should have Lemieux with at least a 5 point gap over any other forward. At least. To properly represent his domination.

So either bump him to 100, or bump others down a bit.

I assume if you "sim" a season as is, Lemieux (assuming no injuries) is among the top scorers, maybe wins art ross. In reality he'd win for sure and by a very big margin.

You can knock his durability a lot if you want to be more realistic of course.

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03-17-2017, 03:05 PM
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This is really cool and is some amazing work, good job on the ratings too? I'd like to see Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux's individual attributes if you could post them ? I had a hard time creating Wayne because of his low checking attribute and I still wanted his overall rating to be the highest so 96 is a good number I think for him and Mario. This also answers a lot of questions for me by you creating 340 players. I always thought there was a 150 limit but now I'm interested in possible doing an all-time roster maybe creating the top 300 players of all-time or something like that I'd probably take it even further. However doubt I could find the time. It is really a shame we can't have a roster share for NHL 17.

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03-18-2017, 03:09 PM
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Wow, how much time did this project take?

Mario would have the highest rating in this game for me. There are other ratings that seem lower to me such as 81 for Muller, but given that you take the whole decade into consideration, I get it. Muller was a physical #1 centre type of player from about 90-94, but turned into a one dimensional checker from about 96-99.

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03-20-2017, 11:02 AM
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Brewsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobholly39 View Post
You should have Lemieux with at least a 5 point gap over any other forward. At least. To properly represent his domination.

So either bump him to 100, or bump others down a bit.

I assume if you "sim" a season as is, Lemieux (assuming no injuries) is among the top scorers, maybe wins art ross. In reality he'd win for sure and by a very big margin.

You can knock his durability a lot if you want to be more realistic of course.
If you click on all images at the bottom of the IMGUR post seen here, you'll see he does win is near the top:

http://imgur.com/gallery/20u5T

For anybody asking about the timing of the project you can see the original link, it all started with me having to be bed ridden from a bad flu for a week.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=2203333

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03-20-2017, 11:33 AM
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JackSlater
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Originally Posted by Brewsky View Post
Gretzky I have that high as he was the highest point getter of the 90's from 1990-91 to 1998-99.
That's a nice bit of trivia but I don't think there is a case that he was as good as Lemieux in the 90s. Stastny had the second most points in the 80s, but I think most would agree that he wasn't the second best forward by any stretch. Thornton was the leading scorer in the 2000s, but you could make a case for other forwards that decade... though the 2000s were terrible for forwards.

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03-20-2017, 12:16 PM
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bobholly39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewsky View Post
If you click on all images at the bottom of the IMGUR post seen here, you'll see he does win is near the top:

http://imgur.com/gallery/20u5T

For anybody asking about the timing of the project you can see the original link, it all started with me having to be bed ridden from a bad flu for a week.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=2203333
thats what i mean though.

1 year Lemieux has 118 points in 82 games, 1 ahead of #2, 6 ahead of #3
1 year Lemieux is in 3rd place, 15 behind #2

In reality, over 82 games, Lemieux would probably be 20-30 points ahead of anyone (assuming 82 games). He would never finish in 3rd place with 105 points over 82 games. Gretzky is somewhat up there too depending on if you use his "best" of the 90s, or average out his performances. So if you "sim'd" a season, and you want it to be close to reality:

Lemieux 140 points
2nd place 110-120 points.


Anyways - I don't mean to criticize or anything, it's really really cool what you did. Makes me want to try and play an NHL game myself, it's been years since I got into one.

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03-20-2017, 04:28 PM
  #22
Brewsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobholly39 View Post
thats what i mean though.

1 year Lemieux has 118 points in 82 games, 1 ahead of #2, 6 ahead of #3
1 year Lemieux is in 3rd place, 15 behind #2

In reality, over 82 games, Lemieux would probably be 20-30 points ahead of anyone (assuming 82 games). He would never finish in 3rd place with 105 points over 82 games. Gretzky is somewhat up there too depending on if you use his "best" of the 90s, or average out his performances. So if you "sim'd" a season, and you want it to be close to reality:

Lemieux 140 points
2nd place 110-120 points.


Anyways - I don't mean to criticize or anything, it's really really cool what you did. Makes me want to try and play an NHL game myself, it's been years since I got into one.
Sad thing about NHL 17 is even if I did make Lemieux's overall 5-6 points over the next person, the simmed stats would still be the same. They've really nerfed the amount of simmed stats players get (I guess it does mimic real life where NHL in 2017 players barely get 100 pts anymore).

I was just happy to see any 100 pts players in my 90's rosters, doesn't feel right to not have any 100 pt players.

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