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Brad Marchand is the best ice hockey player in the world right now

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Old
03-20-2017, 01:49 PM
  #701
Yeti of the Flow
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Originally Posted by Bar Down View Post
That being the case, I'm mistaken. Still a reach to try and use those total minutes instead of points per game.
How is that a reach? That's more relevant than P/GP alone. If someone scores 50 points in a season getting 3 minutes per game, that'd be pretty extraordinary. P/60 is just as important as P/GP, if not moreso, as it allows for more detail to the statistic such as what I cited.

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03-20-2017, 02:02 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by Yeti of the Flow View Post
How is that a reach? That's more relevant than P/GP alone. If someone scores 50 points in a season getting 3 minutes per game, that'd be pretty extraordinary. P/60 is just as important as P/GP, if not moreso, as it allows for more detail to the statistic such as what I cited.
Whatever you want to use to frame your very hot take.

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03-20-2017, 02:24 PM
  #703
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When you have to use team stats when that was never even part of the point, you've lost the argument. The Bruins have had great success over the years against the Penguins. Crosby is still the best player in the world. And other players are a lot closer than Brad Marchand, I hate to break the news.
Perfectly relevant to your statement (when you asked Bruins fans about seeing Crosby play) + as I said, Bruins fans have seen plenty of Crosby since he came into the league and we're most definitely not shaking in our boots. Crosby or no Crosby, we beat Pittsburgh more than they beat us. I wish we had the same record against Montreal that we have against you.

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03-20-2017, 03:11 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by Bar Down View Post
That being the case, I'm mistaken. Still a reach to try and use those total minutes instead of points per game.
It's not really a reach as a counter to games played. If for example a guy has 82 games and 1500 minutes played, that's not a distinct advantage over someone who has 76 games and 1530 minutes played. Especially if the former guy has significantly more PP and fewer PK minutes.

I don't think Marchand is a better player than Crosby, but in 2017 he certainly has been, so - again - it's all about what you take "right now" to mean. 3 months is a pretty big sample size compared to some other hot takes we see on these boards.

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Old
03-20-2017, 03:13 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by BruinLVGA View Post
Perfectly relevant to your statement (when you asked Bruins fans about seeing Crosby play) + as I said, Bruins fans have seen plenty of Crosby since he came into the league and we're most definitely not shaking in our boots. Crosby or no Crosby, we beat Pittsburgh more than they beat us. I wish we had the same record against Montreal that we have against you.
Boasting about your team's success has nothing to do with a player to player comparison...That's not the same at all. Just a distraction from the real argument.

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03-20-2017, 03:16 PM
  #706
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I don't think many can argue Crosby vs. Marchand fairly. Two different positions and reputations.

I do think Marchand is the reason the Bruins are in the playoffs and they wouldn't be without him where the Penguins have repeatedly shown their talent and depth to survive injuries and continue to win.

If Marchand wins the scoring title he also deserves the MVP (SH goals, goals) for the NHL. Probably won't win it again but I'd say the same about McDavid if he wins the scoring title as the Oilers make the playoffs.

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03-20-2017, 03:20 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Fossy21 View Post
It's not really a reach as a counter to games played. If for example a guy has 82 games and 1500 minutes played, that's not a distinct advantage over someone who has 76 games and 1530 minutes played. Especially if the former guy has significantly more PP and fewer PK minutes.

I don't think Marchand is a better player than Crosby, but in 2017 he certainly has been, so - again - it's all about what you take "right now" to mean. 3 months is a pretty big sample size compared to some other hot takes we see on these boards.
I respect your position on this, but I have to disagree. Yeah, it would be true if the number were glaring. Crosby averages like 20 seconds more ice time per game than Marchand. That's not huge. And as for 5v5 and PP time, it shouldn't be held against Crosby that he's out there for longer. The most dangerous player should be out there for longer in offensively favorable situations. It's just smart coaching. Maybe Boston needs to up Marchand's minutes, but it shouldn't be a sticking point for best player.

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03-20-2017, 03:23 PM
  #708
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"pest" is the wrong word for Marchand. He is an extremely high-IQ player.

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Old
03-20-2017, 04:46 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by Bar Down View Post
I respect your position on this, but I have to disagree. Yeah, it would be true if the number were glaring. Crosby averages like 20 seconds more ice time per game than Marchand. That's not huge. And as for 5v5 and PP time, it shouldn't be held against Crosby that he's out there for longer. The most dangerous player should be out there for longer in offensively favorable situations. It's just smart coaching. Maybe Boston needs to up Marchand's minutes, but it shouldn't be a sticking point for best player.
With that much more time an equal player would produce that much more. But he hasn't this year.

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Old
03-20-2017, 04:54 PM
  #710
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Yes, he's at his peak right now and is playing extremely well.

Yes, he plays every situation extremely well.

But no, he's not the best right now. But he's looking like a Top 20 guy and he wasn't even top 50 before the season started.

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03-20-2017, 05:01 PM
  #711
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Originally Posted by Over the volcano View Post
With that much more time an equal player would produce that much more. But he hasn't this year.
There is no equal player though. 87 is the best player in the game.

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03-20-2017, 05:16 PM
  #712
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There is no equal player though. 87 is the best player in the game.
that's the logic right there!

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03-20-2017, 05:16 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by mazmin View Post
Yes, he's at his peak right now and is playing extremely well.

Yes, he plays every situation extremely well.

But no, he's not the best right now. But he's looking like a Top 20 guy and he wasn't even top 50 before the season started.
Not a top 50 player?

Than what about tarasenko?
Benn? Kucherov?

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Old
03-20-2017, 05:18 PM
  #714
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I've never seen anybody lead a scoring race and get credit taken away because he played 20 seconds more per game than another player. Until now.

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03-20-2017, 05:22 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by Over the volcano View Post
that's the logic right there!
More points vs less points. That's the logic.

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Old
03-20-2017, 05:25 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by Brewins View Post
Not a top 50 player?

Than what about tarasenko?
Benn? Kucherov?
Maybe my post wasn't clear. What I meant was:

1. He's not THE best in the league as the OP suggests.

2. He is now a Top 20 player while he was probably on the outside of Top 50 when the season started.

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03-20-2017, 05:36 PM
  #717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazmin View Post
Maybe my post wasn't clear. What I meant was:

1. He's not THE best in the league as the OP suggests.

2. He is now a Top 20 player while he was probably on the outside of Top 50 when the season started.
How many "outside the top 50" forwards have you seen being the 6th best goals scorer in the WHOLE league & a winger on the first line of Canada at the World Cup? Don't you think that, if Marchand was "outside the top 50" in the NHL, that Canada could have found a better player for their needs + first line? I don't think that they selected him because he is handsome, I think that's not likely.


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03-20-2017, 05:37 PM
  #718
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Originally Posted by mazmin View Post
Maybe my post wasn't clear. What I meant was:

1. He's not THE best in the league as the OP suggests.

2. He is now a Top 20 player while he was probably on the outside of Top 50 when the season started.
I think he takes issue with your labelling of him as not a top 50 player before the season. He was #6 in goals and #36 in points (#14 for wingers) last year, whilst a better two-way player than most of the guys in front of him in either category (probably including all the D-men ).

I'd say he was definitely top 50 at the start of the season, especially with recency bias because of how great he was from the start of 2016 through the World Cup.

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Old
03-20-2017, 05:56 PM
  #719
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...and your 1st Star of the Week ...Brad Marchand. Sid 2nd.

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Old
03-20-2017, 06:07 PM
  #720
Over the volcano
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Originally Posted by Bar Down View Post
More points vs less points. That's the logic.
so that's why you waited for sids 3 pt game to start posting in here again!

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Originally Posted by HockeyMomx2 View Post
...and your 1st Star of the Week ...Brad Marchand. Sid 2nd.
Marchand averaged 3pts per game last week, Sid had a 3 pt game.

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Old
03-20-2017, 06:12 PM
  #721
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Marchand might be one of the most efficient, but he isn't a top player skill wise. I mean, compare him to McDavid and there's no contest. Speed, stickhandling, passing...hell, even shot. McDavid is better at most aspects of hockey compared to Marchand. Marchand happens to be one of my favorite players and I think he's the 2nd most important type of forward for a cup winning team (next to franchise centre).

Marchand is incredibly efficient down low and plays with players who all mesh very well together. I don't see how you can argue Marchand is a better hockey player than McDavid or Crosby though.

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Old
03-20-2017, 06:21 PM
  #722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Parker View Post
I don't think many can argue Crosby vs. Marchand fairly. Two different positions and reputations.

I do think Marchand is the reason the Bruins are in the playoffs and they wouldn't be without him where the Penguins have repeatedly shown their talent and depth to survive injuries and continue to win.

If Marchand wins the scoring title he also deserves the MVP (SH goals, goals) for the NHL. Probably won't win it again but I'd say the same about McDavid if he wins the scoring title as the Oilers make the playoffs.
Yea, but facts aren't important, Coach.

McDavid plays 2 more minutes a game. Doesn't matter.
McDavid has 1 more point than Marchand in 125 more minutes of play. Doesn't matter.
McDavid spends 3.7% of his TOI on the PK, Marchand spends 9.7%. Crosby spends 0.006% of his TOI on PK. Doesn't matter.
Marchand begins a higher percentage of his shifts in the defensive zone at 5v5 than both. Doesn't matter.
Yes, Marchand has played 89 more minutes than Crosby total this season, but has played 121 minutes more than Crosby on the PK this season. Doesn't matter.

EDM likely doesn't make the playoffs without McD, in fact, probably not. That's a far assessment. PIT makes it without Crosby but we can all guarantee BOS isn't JUST on the cusp of being in the post-season without Marchand. They would be fishing in the basement without him.

Just listening to TSN talk about it was frustrating. If it's about the player that is deemed most important to their team, how can you not say it's very close and that Marchand isn't a contender? They seem to regard it as simply the race for top point production.

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Old
03-20-2017, 09:19 PM
  #723
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Update: by this bread's logic: McDavid is currently the best in the world. Carry on.

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Old
03-20-2017, 09:22 PM
  #724
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Originally Posted by pokey10 View Post
Update: by this bread's logic: McDavid is currently the best in the world. Carry on.

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Old
03-20-2017, 09:28 PM
  #725
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Update: by this bread's logic: McDavid is currently the best in the world. Carry on.
Ya, he at yeast deserves a mention.

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