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Old
03-19-2017, 05:50 PM
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Grand Junction, Colorado

http://www.gjsentinel.com/news/artic...ote-draws-near

In two weeks and two days, an arena actually goes to a vote in Grand Junction.

That's in Western Colorado, 243 miles and a major mountain range from Denver, somewhat longer from Salt Lake City.

Grand Junction's metropolis is 3,000 people larger than Rapid City. So that begs a question: how well are the Rush doing at business? Are they alright? Having seen a snapshot of their arena in @EmptySeatsPics lately, I have to wonder.

Seems like the ECHL is a bait-and-switch issue with the NAHL a possibility. The D-League team would be the prize... but I'd argue the arena should be half as big for them. Hmm.

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03-19-2017, 06:44 PM
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Geographically, it would make sense for the Mountain Division, and create a new rival for both Utah and Colorado. However, the cart is a bit in front of the horse. The vote for the arena hasn't occurred yet; and if it does pass, how long will it take to build the arena? I would guess 2020. A lot can happen between now and then; and whether an ECHL team would still be viable for this area.

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03-19-2017, 06:50 PM
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Is it possible this is AHL? Rumor is Colorado might get expansion AHL franchise but all is very hush hush.

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03-19-2017, 07:27 PM
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If only the ECHL could become an east coast/very small portion of the Midwest(thinking Ohio/Indiana)league that'd be great. The point of having teams way out on the other side of the country is becoming less and less relevant.

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03-20-2017, 07:23 PM
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If only the ECHL could become an east coast/very small portion of the Midwest(thinking Ohio/Indiana)league that'd be great. The point of having teams way out on the other side of the country is becoming less and less relevant.
I think the chances of that happening are slim to none. While there are advantages, from a fan's point of view, with a smaller league made of up 8 to 10 teams, I think those days for the ECHL are long gone.

I think, for better or worse, both the AHL and ECHL are going to remain leagues spread all over the US and Canada, for the foreseeable future. If the issue with the Pacific Division teams playing a lesser number of games than the rest of the AHL, going on for the third year next season; hasn't resulted in a split from the AHL into another AAA league, I'm not sure anything will.

I believe the only way the Mountain Division goes away is if some combination of Utah, Colorado and Idaho were to move to the AHL; and other cities, such as Grand Junction, weren't available to fill those slots. And even if that happens, there are probably enough cities elsewhere in the central, midwest, east and south to allow the ECHL to remain a league with 24-28 teams.

Guess time will tell.

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03-22-2017, 02:19 AM
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I think the chances of that happening are slim to none. While there are advantages, from a fan's point of view, with a smaller league made of up 8 to 10 teams, I think those days for the ECHL are long gone.

I think, for better or worse, both the AHL and ECHL are going to remain leagues spread all over the US and Canada, for the foreseeable future. If the issue with the Pacific Division teams playing a lesser number of games than the rest of the AHL, going on for the third year next season; hasn't resulted in a split from the AHL into another AAA league, I'm not sure anything will.

I believe the only way the Mountain Division goes away is if some combination of Utah, Colorado and Idaho were to move to the AHL; and other cities, such as Grand Junction, weren't available to fill those slots. And even if that happens, there are probably enough cities elsewhere in the central, midwest, east and south to allow the ECHL to remain a league with 24-28 teams.

Guess time will tell.
Well your latter idea is what I was hoping for. Now that the California teams are gone and Alaska is gone you have a team in Idaho and the teams like Colorado, Rapid City and Utah. Its not as crazy as it used to be but I think with all the franchises having merged their teams in the AHL out west it would make sense to try and get these few remaining franchises with them. I think the idea of 31-31-31 is going to die out thank god. It may not be ideal but Colorado and Winnipeg for example could pick a couple of those teams for an affiliation. The Eagles would probably be a great AHL addition. I'm not sure what Rapid City's long term status will be. I'm still amazed that Quad City is around.

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03-22-2017, 06:22 AM
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I think the idea of 31-31-31 is going to die out thank god.
Not. A. Chance.

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03-22-2017, 06:04 PM
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Not. A. Chance.
There's not enough stable markets at this level. These teams probably really don't want it. Sports leagues at the top hate odd numbers long term so I'm sure 31 will become 30 or even gasp 32.

I wish the ECHL would see the logical writing on the wall that they aren't badly needed for development. This isn't baseball where even Bryce Harper came through the ranks. NHL teams aren't lining up to buy ECHL franchises then you could argue some supply and demand but that isn't even necessary.

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03-22-2017, 08:01 PM
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There's not enough stable markets at this level. These teams probably really don't want it. Sports leagues at the top hate odd numbers long term so I'm sure 31 will become 30 or even gasp 32.

I wish the ECHL would see the logical writing on the wall that they aren't badly needed for development. This isn't baseball where even Bryce Harper came through the ranks. NHL teams aren't lining up to buy ECHL franchises then you could argue some supply and demand but that isn't even necessary.
When it's all said and done it will be 32-32-32...

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03-23-2017, 05:13 PM
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When it's all said and done it will be 32-32-32...
That's sad. The ECHL I think is heading for a slow and inevitable painful death at this rate. The AHL teams seem to be becoming more and more NHL owned so the AHL will survive as long as the NHL does or if costs ever get tight the NHL teams will just dump off the AHL to save expenses to keep the NHL afloat. Of course I'm thinking way down the line with the last part.

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03-23-2017, 06:28 PM
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i don't the echl is doing to die anytime soon

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03-23-2017, 06:34 PM
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That's sad. The ECHL I think is heading for a slow and inevitable painful death at this rate. The AHL teams seem to be becoming more and more NHL owned so the AHL will survive as long as the NHL does or if costs ever get tight the NHL teams will just dump off the AHL to save expenses to keep the NHL afloat. Of course I'm thinking way down the line with the last part.
Dual affiliation seems far more likely.

If anything, a 16 team ECHL is more likely than a 32 team ECHL.

Places like Indy, Orlando, Fort Wayne, Tulsa, Cincinnati, and South Carolina seem safe, but others might be plucked for AHL destinations or can't sustain themselves.

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03-24-2017, 01:07 PM
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I'd expect a couple of California teams before central based teams.

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04-07-2017, 12:30 AM
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Lost by nearly 3-1. Funny part is the main opponent on the city council was voted out.

http://www.gjsentinel.com/opinion/ar...ets-a-new-face

Slight chance that the issue could be reconfigured without the need for a vote, but I have my doubts.

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04-17-2017, 02:41 PM
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It was stated on Oursportscentral.com that they voted down the increased sales tax to help with the arena. So don't know where that leaves them as far as the arena. Guess it won't be happening.

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04-17-2017, 03:32 PM
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Dual affiliation seems far more likely.

If anything, a 16 team ECHL is more likely than a 32 team ECHL.

Places like Indy, Orlando, Fort Wayne, Tulsa, Cincinnati, and South Carolina seem safe, but others might be plucked for AHL destinations or can't sustain themselves.
Never thought of this. Makes a ton of sense.

ECHL will be at 27 next season with the addition of Jacksonville and Worcester and the demise of Elmira and Alaska. There are so many trouble spots in the ECHL remaining, that the notion of the addition of 5 teams seems far fetched. There aren't anymore AA teams to snatch from dying leagues (IHL/CHL/WPHL). Perhaps Peoria and another could come from the SPHL but that's it. The only other growth would be from eastern US cities whose AHL franchises vacate and move , presumably, west. Long term consolidation seems far more likely than expansion at this point.

ECHL franchises which I see as rock solid for the next 10 years:

1) Toledo
2) Nobody else

Every other franchise has some question marks around it. Some not very worrisome; many very worrisome.

Minor league hockey has always been a brutally tough business and outside of the AHL, which serves an indispensable NHL developmental league, all other leagues will probably be in a permanent state of flux and the notion of having a fixed number of franchises equal to that of the NHL and AHL is pretty far fetched imho.

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04-17-2017, 05:47 PM
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There's not enough stable markets at this level. These teams probably really don't want it. Sports leagues at the top hate odd numbers long term so I'm sure 31 will become 30 or even gasp 32.

I wish the ECHL would see the logical writing on the wall that they aren't badly needed for development. This isn't baseball where even Bryce Harper came through the ranks. NHL teams aren't lining up to buy ECHL franchises then you could argue some supply and demand but that isn't even necessary.
Actually the NHL teams were (are) unloading their own ECHL franchises. The Devils dumped their franchise in Trenton, then more recently Oilers, LA Kings, and lastly Calgary sold out their respective ECHL franchises. The ECHL plays a smaller developmental role but I believe their role is justified. I think the ECHL needs to work on providing that developmental role when called upon but also needs to do some housekeeping on important stay at home issues. Those issues would be to reduce roster turnover if possible, and maintain some independence from the NHL/AHL encroachment of how it operates.

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04-17-2017, 06:17 PM
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Actually the NHL teams were (are) unloading their own ECHL franchises. The Devils dumped their franchise in Trenton, then more recently Oilers, LA Kings, and lastly Calgary sold out their respective ECHL franchises. The ECHL plays a smaller developmental role but I believe their role is justified. I think the ECHL needs to work on providing that developmental role when called upon but also needs to do some housekeeping on important stay at home issues. Those issues would be to reduce roster turnover if possible, and maintain some independence from the NHL/AHL encroachment of how it operates.
Knew about the Devils but I thought that was a collective mess across the board more than them just dumping? Trenton returned as the Titans. Trenton was run the same as the Devil AHL teams though, very poorly.

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04-17-2017, 06:18 PM
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Never thought of this. Makes a ton of sense.

ECHL will be at 27 next season with the addition of Jacksonville and Worcester and the demise of Elmira and Alaska. There are so many trouble spots in the ECHL remaining, that the notion of the addition of 5 teams seems far fetched. There aren't anymore AA teams to snatch from dying leagues (IHL/CHL/WPHL). Perhaps Peoria and another could come from the SPHL but that's it. The only other growth would be from eastern US cities whose AHL franchises vacate and move , presumably, west. Long term consolidation seems far more likely than expansion at this point.

ECHL franchises which I see as rock solid for the next 10 years:

1) Toledo
2) Nobody else

Every other franchise has some question marks around it. Some not very worrisome; many very worrisome.

Minor league hockey has always been a brutally tough business and outside of the AHL, which serves an indispensable NHL developmental league, all other leagues will probably be in a permanent state of flux and the notion of having a fixed number of franchises equal to that of the NHL and AHL is pretty far fetched imho.
The shocker for me here is Fort Wayne. What's wrong there?

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