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Old
03-19-2017, 10:40 AM
  #526
joshjull
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Originally Posted by Onslow View Post
What is this assumption based on? Public statements by Murray?

What someone says to the press and how they feel behind closed doors could be entirely different.

I guess I'm holding out hope that Bylsma is gone by summer.
Ordinarily I would agree with you. But murray is hardly one to mask his thoughts. Things could change with the exit interviews Murray does with the players after the season. Since we've heard plenty from players in reports and background commentary. But have you heard negative comments or reports about Murray not being happy with the coaching? Ones that would lead you to believe Disco's job is in jeopardy?

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03-19-2017, 10:46 AM
  #527
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Ordinarily I would agree with you. But murray is hardly one to mask his thoughts. Things could change with the exit interviews Murray does with the players after the season. Since we've heard plenty from players in reports and background commentary. But have you heard a single negative comment or report about Murray not being happy with the coaching? Ones that would lead you to believe Disco's job is in jeopardy?
Nope. Nor have I heard rumors about Bylsma's seat getting warm, aside from that recent BN article, which offered nothing concrete. That is worrisome.

But at the same time, I can't fathom that Murray does not see the issues the team has with the system, Bylsma's player usage, and the players' seeming lack of respect for Bylsma as a man. Their passive aggressive comments toward the situation are telling. Murray has to be picking up on that.

Right?

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03-19-2017, 10:49 AM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Onslow View Post
Nope. Nor have I heard rumors about Bylsma's seat getting warm, aside from that recent BN article, wich offered nothing concrete. That is worrisome.

But at the same time, I can't fathom that Murray does not see the issues the team has with the system, Bylsma's player usage, and the players' seeming lack of respect for Bylsma as a man. Their passive aggressive comments toward the situation are telling. Murray has to be picking up on that.

Right?
My take is Murray feels injuries as much as anything doomed this season. He's probably incredibly frustrated that his big defensive acquisition was essentially eliminated for the bulk of the season due to injuries. Murray also said its his fault the defense isn't strong enough. There is a lot of truth in that btw.


IMO our GM feels injuries and him not building a strong enough defense are the main reasons we are where we are. I really don't think he has an issue with Disco. As I said previously, that may change with the exit interviews with the players.

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03-19-2017, 10:58 AM
  #529
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
My take is Murray feels injuries as much as anything doomed this season. He's probably incredibly frustrated that his big defensive acquisition was essentially eliminated for the bulk of the season due to injuries. Murray also said its his fault the defense isn't strong enough. There is a lot of truth in that btw.
Well yeah, both of his big acquisitions have flopped due to circumstances mostly beyond his control. Bogo has been hot garbage in this system, and Kuli has a fluke injury.

WRT injuries, the team is somewhat healthy now, and no better off since the beginning of the season when ROR, Eichel, Kane et al were injured. Surely he sees that.

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IMO our GM feels injuries and him not building a strong enough defense are the main reasons we are where we are. I really don't think he has an issue with Disco. As I said previously, that may change with the exit interviews with the players.
If that's the case, Murray will find himself on the hot seat next year if the Sabres woes continue. The first and easiest fix for the team is to fire Bylsma, and he has not done that. That's a failure on his part.

If Murray feels the way you think he does, I can only hope the players change his mind.

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03-19-2017, 11:03 AM
  #530
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Originally Posted by Onslow View Post
Well yeah, both of his big acquisitions have flopped due to circumstances mostly beyond his control. Bogo has been hot garbage in this system, and Kuli has a fluke injury.

WRT injuries, the team is somewhat healthy now, and no better off since the beginning of the season when ROR, Eichel, Kane et al were injured. Surely he sees that.



If that's the case, Murray will find himself on the hot seat next year if the Sabres woes continue. The first and easiest fix for the team is to fire Bylsma, and he has not done that. That's a failure on his part.

If Murray feels the way you think he does, I can only hope the players change his mind.
I'm not defending what I think Murray's stand is. I'm just laying it out as I see it.

How Murray addresses the team's issues over the summer will go a long way in determining how much faith I'll have in him going forward.

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03-19-2017, 11:28 AM
  #531
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I'm not defending what I think Murray's stand is. I'm just laying it out as I see it.

How Murray addresses the team's issues over the summer will go a long way in determining how much faith I'll have in him going forward.
I agree. A coaching change will go a long way for me.

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03-19-2017, 11:38 AM
  #532
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I'm not defending what I think Murray's stand is. I'm just laying it out as I see it.

How Murray addresses the team's issues over the summer will go a long way in determining how much faith I'll have in him going forward.
If he "fixes the roster", but keeps Bylsma, will you have faith in him going forward?

I've been a supporter of Murray from day 1, and I am Pro-Murray in the present.

If he sticks with Bylsma, I will have no confidence in him going forward.

Bylsma has learned nothing in his coaching career, if murray sticks with him it will prove that murray hasn't learned anything either.

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03-19-2017, 11:41 AM
  #533
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
If he "fixes the roster", but keeps Bylsma, will you have faith in him going forward?

I've been a supporter of Murray from day 1, and I am Pro-Murray in the present.

If he sticks with Bylsma, I will have no confidence in him going forward.

Bylsma has learned nothing in his coaching career, if murray sticks with him it will prove that murray hasn't learned anything either.
Agreed. He can go out and get some talented players, but there's no future for this team under Bylsma. He isn't the guy who is going to bring a cup to Buffalo.

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03-19-2017, 01:05 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
If he "fixes the roster", but keeps Bylsma, will you have faith in him going forward?

I've been a supporter of Murray from day 1, and I am Pro-Murray in the present.

If he sticks with Bylsma, I will have no confidence in him going forward.

Bylsma has learned nothing in his coaching career, if murray sticks with him it will prove that murray hasn't learned anything either.
100% agree. If Murray can't see the plain faults with Bylsma, I'm ready to move on from both.

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03-19-2017, 01:58 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by Onslow View Post
Well yeah, both of his big acquisitions have flopped due to circumstances mostly beyond his control. Bogo has been hot garbage in this system, and Kuli has a fluke injury.

WRT injuries, the team is somewhat healthy now, and no better off since the beginning of the season when ROR, Eichel, Kane et al were injured. Surely he sees that.

If that's the case, Murray will find himself on the hot seat next year if the Sabres woes continue. The first and easiest fix for the team is to fire Bylsma, and he has not done that. That's a failure on his part.

If Murray feels the way you think he does, I can only hope the players change his mind.
You know we have become accustomed to lots of injuries when "somewhat healthy" means that the only players out are Okposo, Larsson, Carrier, Falk, Kulikov and Fedun. We are calling up two defensemen for the upcoming games.

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03-19-2017, 02:37 PM
  #536
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I'm just tired of the **** product for most of the last decade really, I don't care what happens I just wanna win games and feel what we felt in 2006 again.

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03-19-2017, 02:55 PM
  #537
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I'm just tired of the **** product for most of the last decade really, I don't care what happens I just wanna win games and feel what we felt in 2006 again.
as a long time fan, I couldn't agree more.

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Old
03-19-2017, 03:03 PM
  #538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
If he "fixes the roster", but keeps Bylsma, will you have faith in him going forward?

I've been a supporter of Murray from day 1, and I am Pro-Murray in the present.

If he sticks with Bylsma, I will have no confidence in him going forward.

Bylsma has learned nothing in his coaching career, if murray sticks with him it will prove that murray hasn't learned anything either.

Bang on.

My gut feeling is that Murray's had Bylsma fired in his mind since January. Just let things be as the season had realistically slipped by already anyways. A band-aid wouldnt fix anything this year.

Big changes, new faces next season.

If im wrong, Murray needs to go ASAP.

Although, my trust is strong enough in Murray that I doubt I'll be disappointed in the off-season.

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Old
03-19-2017, 03:53 PM
  #539
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I think the plan was, as oki laid out, was to take a step forward this year but with Jack's injury with 8 minutes left in preseason (and Kulikovs) that it was a lost year/throw away/experience year only pretty much from the start. I think that was also cemented because of the upcoming expansion draft, why try to fix the defense/add to it, when said add will be lost in expansion draft, etc. it's not that the add would be lost but one of the preprotected defense would've been lost. I think Kulikov was brought in especially because of his impending UFA status. I really think Murray is sort of an "over analyze" type of guy, so this draft has been over calculated to death in our front office.

I think our expansion protected list is set, Murray's skeleton of the team going forward is pretty well set, and that as soon as the expansion draft is over, Murray is going to make a few semi big moves.

As for the disco discussion, I do not think it can be lost on anyone that disco is passive, it's his personality. I think compared to Jack, who I think is highly competitive and intense, it's a bad match of coach/star player. Jacks made to play a high octane game, not this type of slow the other team down crap. That's my opinion of Jack.

On to our other #2 pick.....does anyone think his development has been helped by disco? I doubt it. Disco has stunted Reinharts development. Murray said publicly that he's a center over the summer....hello? He played some of his best hockey this year at center, when the teams needs made him play there. Once healthy, back to wing. Seriously disco???

I think these couple years have, and should've been all about 3 players development: Eichel, Reinhart and Risto. I don't think any of their development has been handled correctly, and 90% of that falls on Disco. I can't believe Murray doesn't see that, and along with those semi big moves after the expansion drafts I mentioned, Murray's going to fire Blysma and bring in a more firery coach. As much as a lot of posters don't like him (and he's not available ) but John Tortella would be perfect for this team. I personally feel at the start of the 17-18 season, we will be a vastly improved team on paper.

At least Ennis and Kane will be gone, also one of Larsson, Foligno or Girgensons. Two defenseman will be brought in. I think a lot will come out in the summer with Murray and how the upcoming expansion draft handcuffed him last year....


I am very optimistic about the team and summer

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Old
03-19-2017, 07:50 PM
  #540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresFanNorthPortFL View Post
I think the plan was, as oki laid out, was to take a step forward this year but with Jack's injury with 8 minutes left in preseason (and Kulikovs) that it was a lost year/throw away/experience year only pretty much from the start.
The Sabres were a .500 team without Eichel so don't let injuries be the excuse.

When it came to crunch time, the Sabres failed to win consistently. In fact, when they were at their healthiest they played their most inconsistent. Up until Friday they had 2 wins in 12 games.

I am optimistic too, but I think the problems go beyond injuries.

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03-19-2017, 08:37 PM
  #541
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Originally Posted by Sinter Klaas View Post
The Sabres were a .500 team without Eichel so don't let injuries be the excuse.

When it came to crunch time, the Sabres failed to win consistently. In fact, when they were at their healthiest they played their most inconsistent. Up until Friday they had 2 wins in 12 games.

I am optimistic too, but I think the problems go beyond injuries.
.500 in what way? They won 7 of 21 games, and had 19 points.

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03-20-2017, 02:16 PM
  #542
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
"The thought of a coaching change seemed ridiculous even a month ago."

Stopped reading there.
I mean, he's not wrong. Despite the rioting here on HFBoards and on social media, there was no indication that Bylsma was in any danger a month ago. As JJ cited, Murray's radio interviews were chock full of complaints about injuries, pointing the finger at his own roster composition (i.e., the blueline), laying fault at the feet of the players for not being ready for games, etc. He would even go out of his way to say the coaches prepared hard for opponents. I think those were far better indicators of Bylsma's future employment prospects than the ribbons of hope created in some by statements such as Murray discussing the need for better puck support through the neutral zone. Also, given that the S.S. Sabre with Murray at the helm has had more leaks than the Titanic, I think we would've heard a credible report or two that Bylsma was in some trouble.

A month ago, they were at a ~90 point pace with Eichel in the lineup. There was no way in hell Bylsma was getting fired if they stayed at or around that type of pace - especially in light of all the other injuries the team has had, such as Kulikov being a complete wash this season. Zero chance he was gone a month ago. I don't care what people feel they have to tell themselves to maintain faith in Murray - I would've bet any person on here any amount of money that if they stayed on that pace Bylsma would be back behind the bench in 2017-18.

But, with that said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Sabres Captain View Post
Bylsma will still be here to start next year.

But if this team is not in a playoff position at Thanksgiving (which with Bylsma at the helm is IMO a pretty good bet), he'll be out.
At this point, I think there's a better chance than not that he isn't. Given that Bylsma/Murray can't hang his/their hat on results being there when Jack was healthy, I think the exit interviews will go a long way to decide Bylsma's future. More specifically, there's 3-4 exit interviews that really matter - sorry, Zemgus, Zach, Marcus, et al., you ain't in that 3-4. I think Murray is going to try to get a feel for whether the relationship between Bylsma and the core is salvageable; if Murray feels it is, he'll be back, otherwise he won't.

I think there are real issues between Bylsma and Eichel - whether the suspected root causes of those issues (e.g., shift "benchings") should be a legitimate source of dissension is another question entirely - and I think that'll be Bylsma's undoing in Buffalo.

I think a month ago, Murray was firmly in the "retain Bylsma, overhaul the blueline, and let's see what happens in the first couple months of 2017-18" camp. Now, with what appears to be locker room in turmoil, an unhappy star player, etc., Murray's hand may be forced.

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03-20-2017, 06:32 PM
  #543
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as a long time fan, I couldn't agree more.
I haven't been this dissatisfied with the product on the ice since Ted Sator and Gerry Meehan.

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Old
03-20-2017, 06:40 PM
  #544
joshjull
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I haven't been this dissatisfied with the product on the ice since Ted Sator and Gerry Meehan.
Those are some bad memories I've managed to suppress.

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03-20-2017, 07:09 PM
  #545
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Those are some bad memories I've managed to suppress.
Hockey has always been my vice but this year has been the fewest games I've watched since probably the '70's (when I would listen to the Sabres, Wings and Blues on the radio).

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03-20-2017, 07:16 PM
  #546
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Zip - I get the timeline you're presenting, but people are bristling at voices who were at-best mum and at-worst complimentary of Bylsma presenting his status with his players as a sudden fall and not 140+ games of muted individual production without any benefit to the team's record coming to a head.

Especially when that's a springboard to a couple paragraphs about "this generation of players."

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Old
03-20-2017, 07:18 PM
  #547
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I haven't been this dissatisfied with the product on the ice since Ted Sator and Gerry Meehan.
Just keep reminding yourself Jack Eichel is ****ing awesome.

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Old
03-20-2017, 07:19 PM
  #548
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Just keep reminding yourself Jack Eichel is ****ing awesome.
He is the Patty LaLa to bring the fire back to my viewing, that's for sure.

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03-20-2017, 08:04 PM
  #549
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I haven't been this dissatisfied with the product on the ice since Ted Sator and Gerry Meehan.
I was just thinking a few days ago about how this is the worst stretch (no playoff series win since 2007) since the nine years of the 80s and early 90s leading up to May Day. That was nine years in the 80s that therapy never solved. This is now going to be ten years without any playoff success. Fortunately after 25 years I'm dead on the inside so it doesn't hurt as bad. #thosewithoutsoulscan'tgotohell

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03-21-2017, 04:39 PM
  #550
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