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True North: 3% ticket increase on STH (maximum), Too much?

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Old
03-20-2017, 07:26 AM
  #101
Stej
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Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
So why are you having to sell so many tickets on after market? That only averages 11.7 tickets per person in the ST group. Assuming you split 2 and 2 that is only a 6 game commitment. If 6 games is too much why even be part of a group?
I personally get 26 tickets per year. We have varying levels of buy-in. It's a large group of friends with varying levels of fandom and financial flexibility.

Perhaps I came on too strong. I've lost interest in convincing anyone that True North is making mistakes. I can only say, from my personal experience and opinion, that I believe they are. It's more complicated than I've made it out to be but I've said enough in this thread already.

I'll leave it at this -- I hope I'm wrong. It would be crushing to lose the team again. That's why I'm passionate about them not getting greedy and ****ing this up. It's no secret that this is a tricky market to navigate given how small the population is relative to most other markets.

Last-minute edit: I've raised many of my concerns with my ticket rep and he seemed genuine in saying that TNSE is well aware of the falling demand. His words were something to the effect of "oh trust me, we know". That's why I was more surprised than prior years to see them nearly max out on the increase again.


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Old
03-20-2017, 09:30 AM
  #102
Sabadecade
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I've raised many of my concerns with my ticket rep and he seemed genuine in saying that TNSE is well aware of the falling demand.
IMHO, that is the most real and effective way to voice your concern and ensure TNSE has heard it. Opting out of your STH isn't a clear message as to why you are cancelling (unless you actually tell them why).

I'd be curious to know if there's any difference in the the gap between STH price vs. Face Value from year 1 to now as well. Has that gap been increasing in size over the years as well? I wonder if that would be an effective way to keep STHs in place and driving demand for future STHs?

Remember fellow STHs, the "Price break" you get by committing to a STH pacakge is the real "insentive" to getting an STH package in the first place. Cancel your package and you take a risk having to pay the "Face value", and if you didn't like the 3% increase in STH price, you definitely won't like the 30-40% increase in "Face Value" from the STH price. Some STH may sell at cost for whatever reason but most won't, especially when the demand starts going up.

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Old
03-20-2017, 03:49 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Sabadecade View Post
IMHO, that is the most real and effective way to voice your concern and ensure TNSE has heard it. Opting out of your STH isn't a clear message as to why you are cancelling (unless you actually tell them why).

I'd be curious to know if there's any difference in the the gap between STH price vs. Face Value from year 1 to now as well. Has that gap been increasing in size over the years as well? I wonder if that would be an effective way to keep STHs in place and driving demand for future STHs?

Remember fellow STHs, the "Price break" you get by committing to a STH pacakge is the real "insentive" to getting an STH package in the first place. Cancel your package and you take a risk having to pay the "Face value", and if you didn't like the 3% increase in STH price, you definitely won't like the 30-40% increase in "Face Value" from the STH price. Some STH may sell at cost for whatever reason but most won't, especially when the demand starts going up.



I am an avid Kijiji user. This year especially, I would check the tickets section multiple times before and on Jets home game day's to see how the prices were fluctuating. And I can say that for all but a few games, it was possible to get pairs of tickets at SSH cost leading up to or on the day of the game. Might there be logistical issues? Sure. You may have to travel a good distance across the city to get the seats, sometimes on the day of the game. For most B games, almost all C games, and even some A games ( I recall you could get tickets to home opener, Leafs, Chicago (November) at cost leading up to the game). Sure, there may only be an ad or two and you have to act quickly to get them before someone else does, but it can be done.

Additionally, if you can't get them at cost, chances are you can get them for close or something in between cost and the category face value for that game. Before this season, I also thought that tickets were hard to come by below face value. But in reality, if you know where to look, they can be had for the same prices as SSH's. And as always, ensure the tickets are transferred to your jets account. Never know what could happen with paper tickets.

Some will argue its a down year an it was easier to pick up tickets that way. That is true, and especially so in recent weeks when the playoffs are essentially out of reach. But back in October and November, this team was still in contention and even against traditional powers in the NHL, tickets could be had for cost or close to it. But maybe that is just my experience.


Last edited by ukrainianjet: 03-20-2017 at 03:53 PM. Reason: Details
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Old
03-20-2017, 03:58 PM
  #104
Yukon Joe
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
Kevin Donnelly, the senior vice-president of venues and entertainment for True North Sports and Entertainment and a longtime Winnipeg concert promoter, has seen too many fans arrive at the arena painted in their favourite team colours, or parents with a child in tow expecting to see Justin Bieber, only to find out the tickets they bought from a secondary website or Kijiji aren't valid.

"It is immensely frustrating and disheartening. Somebody has bought a ticket thinking they are going to come in and take in an event, whether it's a sporting event or concert, and when you are buying from any of these sites, any place other than Ticketmaster, we can't give any statement that the ticket is valid," Donnelly said.

"Especially if it is on a Kijiji site or something, that ticket may be duplicated numerous times over and you never know, as the purchaser, if it's valid or not. So we see countless people coming to the door and not able to get in because their ticket is fraudulent."


-----

I've been picking up NHL tickets in Edmonton and Calgary for years through kijiji. In the 20 games or so where I ahve done so, I have never had any issues. Has this really been happening in Winnipeg? It certainly has not in Alberta, or not to my knowledge.
It certainly does happen in Edmonton and Calgary. I saw a guy in court in Alberta charged with criminal fraud for selling fake tickets over kijiji. And a number of other cases of fraudulent goods being sold that way. The worst was a guy who bought a $30,000 truck from a guy on kijiji - only to find out the VIN number had been cloned and it was in fact a stolen truck. So the truck gets returned to the real owner and the guy is out the $30k.

Personally, I would never purchase a ticket on kijiji. Stick (in Alberta at least) with Ticketmaster, where it's fully guaranteed your ticket is authentic, or stubhub, where at least they guarantee that if there's a problem they will refund your money.

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03-20-2017, 04:04 PM
  #105
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SeatExchange is completely ineffective IMO. As you say, it's scalping. A ticket I pay $75 is sold for well over $100 depending on the category. I get the face value, but Ticketmaster and TNSE are tacking on significant fees too.

In the last 2 seasons I've posted 10-12 games on SeatExchange and one has sold, the Pittsburgh game this season. I wonder if the Jets are evaluating this kind of thing. They could still tack on fees if I sold my ticket for $75 that I paid, even if I sold it at a loss. You'd think at some point they'd prefer a body in the building to an empty seat.

If we were up for renewal my half of the group would probably drop out this year. We were single recent university grads still living in the city when the Jets came back. Now I'm married with a young family and neither one of us live in the city full time.
They've been paid for the seat. If there is a body in the building they are selling concessions, souvenirs.

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03-20-2017, 04:08 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Yukon Joe View Post
It certainly does happen in Edmonton and Calgary. I saw a guy in court in Alberta charged with criminal fraud for selling fake tickets over kijiji. And a number of other cases of fraudulent goods being sold that way. The worst was a guy who bought a $30,000 truck from a guy on kijiji - only to find out the VIN number had been cloned and it was in fact a stolen truck. So the truck gets returned to the real owner and the guy is out the $30k.

Personally, I would never purchase a ticket on kijiji. Stick (in Alberta at least) with Ticketmaster, where it's fully guaranteed your ticket is authentic, or stubhub, where at least they guarantee that if there's a problem they will refund your money.
If you ensure the Jets tickets are transfered to your Jets account (Smartphone to Smartphone, over email, while conducting the transaction), then you are good. The potential problem with StubHub, (Although I have never experienced it), is that fraudulent tickets are given to you and when you get to game/concert/event, you cant get in. Sure stubhub will give you your money back but if you paid to travel to a far off place to attend a game, then your experience is soured.

And I used this example as well of the perils of StubHub. The Masters is arguably the most prestigious golf tournament on the PGA tour schedule and tickets are routinely scalped for 5-10x their face values. A $50 practise round ticket can go for $500 on stubhub. A few years ago, a Monday practise round was rained out. And it was rained out so early in the day that the Masters tournament decided to provide a good will gesture to original ticket holders by way of allowing them to return their ticket for a ticket for the same days practise round the following year. The only problem for those who bought on the secondary market is that this was only applicable to the original purchaser of the ticket, not the purchaser of the ticket off stubhub. Whether or not arrangement was made between the two of them is beside the fact. You take some risk also if your event is cancelled or postponed if you buy off the secondary market.

Rare to see that happen to a Jets game but buyer beware.

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03-20-2017, 04:10 PM
  #107
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Im surprised this story hasn't made its way into the thread:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...bots-1.4016171

Essentially TNSE wants the province to change scalping legislation to allow them to control the secondary ticket market. Don't kid yourselves, they are not lobbying the government to help them sell your tickets on seat exchange easier, they can already do that by pricing them lower. No, they want the ability to buy and re-sell tickets to big concerts (or Jets playoff games) for more than face value.

As for Jets season ticket price increases, it's pretty clear what they are doing. They believe or at least they are betting that the demand for their product is inelastic - that it's not sensitive to price changes or performance. This exists in several major pro sports markets - Leafs, Habs, Rangers, Nicks, Celtics, Lakers, Yankees, etc. And why wouldn't they? 97% renewal rate for multi-year contracts with agreements that allow them to raise prices up by 3% per year. They will continue to raise prices as aggressively as possible until they hit the point on the curve where demand softens. The risk in this strategy is 1) once the bottom falls out of demand, it doesn't recover (**** off your base, and they don't come back) and 2) that ticket price increases will not effect concession and Merch buying - higher ticket prices often reduce concession spending. TNSE is probably seeing that it hasn't thus far.

Sure, the secondary resale market is impacted as it responds immediately to performance, which effects price up or down. But TNSE has shown that they don't care much about the secondary market - as Scott Brown said last year - "it doesn't effect them, those tickets are already sold."

So, im not expecting things to change unless there is a major shakeup with renewals. Which is very possible given how small our market is, how ****** the product has been and that our ticket prices are already some of the highest in the league.
They need to be monitoring the secondary market very closely - and I don't mean just the seat exchange. That market is their canary in the coal mine. When the number of tickets available gets too high and the resale prices get too low they have already gone too far. Or failed to provide an attractive enough product.

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03-20-2017, 04:12 PM
  #108
Yukon Joe
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If you ensure the Jets tickets are transfered to your Jets account (Smartphone to Smartphone, over email, while conducting the transaction), then you are good. The potential problem with StubHub, (Although I have never experienced it), is that fraudulent tickets are given to you and when you get to game/concert/event, you cant get in. Sure stubhub will give you your money back but if you paid to travel to a far off place to attend a game, then your experience is soured.

And I used this example as well of the perils of StubHub. The Masters is arguably the most prestigious golf tournament on the PGA tour schedule and tickets are routinely scalped for 5-10x their face values. A $50 practise round ticket can go for $500 on stubhub. A few years ago, a Monday practise round was rained out. And it was rained out so early in the day that the Masters tournament decided to provide a good will gesture to original ticket holders by way of allowing them to return their ticket for a ticket for the same days practise round the following year. The only problem for those who bought on the secondary market is that this was only applicable to the original purchaser of the ticket, not the purchaser of the ticket off stubhub. Whether or not arrangement was made between the two of them is beside the fact. You take some risk also if your event is cancelled or postponed if you buy off the secondary market.

Rare to see that happen to a Jets game but buyer beware.
Yeah, I wouldn't trust StubHub for anything I needed to travel to, since the guarantee is only the price of your tickets. Good to know about the electronic ticket. YOu still need to be careful though. The guy I saw in court would get people to send him the money, then would just ignore their texts. If you insist on using kijiji, do it in person.

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03-20-2017, 04:54 PM
  #109
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Yeah, I wouldn't trust StubHub for anything I needed to travel to, since the guarantee is only the price of your tickets. Good to know about the electronic ticket. YOu still need to be careful though. The guy I saw in court would get people to send him the money, then would just ignore their texts. If you insist on using kijiji, do it in person.
And then you show with money in hand and the other person shows up with a knife or worse. And it does happen.

I will always buy thru a legit service. My only complaint is to make it more flexible price wise and reduce the service fees.

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03-20-2017, 05:22 PM
  #110
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They've been paid for the seat. If there is a body in the building they are selling concessions, souvenirs.
That's exactly what I mean. If I can't go they'd be better off reselling my seats at what I paid or at anything really with the loss being on my end and having 2 people there who might spend another 50 or 100 bucks in the building.

If they want to control the secondary market they need to provide a legitimate option for when demand is high or low.

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03-20-2017, 05:25 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Yukon Joe View Post
Yeah, I wouldn't trust StubHub for anything I needed to travel to, since the guarantee is only the price of your tickets. Good to know about the electronic ticket. YOu still need to be careful though. The guy I saw in court would get people to send him the money, then would just ignore their texts. If you insist on using kijiji, do it in person.
Yeah, Stubhub is great for spur of the moment purchases, not planned events.

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Old
03-20-2017, 06:31 PM
  #112
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That's exactly what I mean. If I can't go they'd be better off reselling my seats at what I paid or at anything really with the loss being on my end and having 2 people there who might spend another 50 or 100 bucks in the building.

If they want to control the secondary market they need to provide a legitimate option for when demand is high or low.
if they allowed us to sell for less, they wouldn't be able to sell their walk up tickets for full value. We are in direct competition with TNSE in that sense. seatexchange seats are actually the most expensive for buyers and, since the seats are already sold, the last priority for TNSE to sell.

You're right that that they are way better off with people there buying beers than empty seats, but this is just one of many short sighted decisions from them on the business end. When the choice is between good treatment to STHers and a few more bucks for TNSE, they always seem to defer to the latter.

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03-20-2017, 07:33 PM
  #113
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if they allowed us to sell for less, they wouldn't be able to sell their walk up tickets for full value. We are in direct competition with TNSE in that sense. seatexchange seats are actually the most expensive for buyers and, since the seats are already sold, the last priority for TNSE to sell.

You're right that that they are way better off with people there buying beers than empty seats, but this is just one of many short sighted decisions from them on the business end. When the choice is between good treatment to STHers and a few more bucks for TNSE, they always seem to defer to the latter.
Very accurate statement.

I think TNSE must be sensing how soft the ticket market currently is. Clearly the past few seasons the Jets must have seen the walk up crowds soften. TNSE responds by creating mini-packs and offering them to wait list members. Wait list members do not jump on the inventory and mini-packs are offered up to the general public but do not sell out from my understanding.

TNSE would be well aware that for the most part seat exchange is not working as intended for their STH. An estimation from my own experience would be 1 of 10 sets of tickets listed for a 2 week period will sell. I have only been able to sell two pairs on seat exchange the past two seasons.

Lack of weekend games! I am well aware that some people do not like weekend games but the majority of posters here do seem to like them. It is a lot harder to sell tickets to weeknight games. The two pairs of seats that I have sold on seat exchange were both weekend games. Avs 2016 and Flames 2017. If the casual fan is looking for seats they like weekends and those with kids find it easier to find a babysitter on weekends.

I am still in for the long haul and I have a solid group of 2 that I share my primary seats with but.....after today's "wage" freeze announcement I will have to see how that affects my disposable income.

Good discussion on this thread.

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03-20-2017, 08:06 PM
  #114
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Another issue that I think a lot of people have is the ability to swap season ticket seats. Just a question... why if I want to trade someone for the same amount of seats does TNSE not allow this to happen. Or in another scenario, taking over someone's seats and providing the same number or even more in return. Why are they denying a simple request like this. It's frustrating to say the least and will leave a bad taste in the mouths of some very loyal and significant customers. Does anyone have any idea why this insist on not allowing this?

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03-20-2017, 08:37 PM
  #115
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Another issue that I think a lot of people have is the ability to swap season ticket seats. Just a question... why if I want to trade someone for the same amount of seats does TNSE not allow this to happen. Or in another scenario, taking over someone's seats and providing the same number or even more in return. Why are they denying a simple request like this. It's frustrating to say the least and will leave a bad taste in the mouths of some very loyal and significant customers. Does anyone have any idea why this insist on not allowing this?
Because people have signed TPA's and the Jets have a wait list. TNSE has made a business decision that they would rather have ticket inventory get into the hands of wait list members than accomodate loyal existing STH by letting them permanantly swap seats amongst themselves.

Edit: you can swap unlimited numbers of seats amongst Jets accounts. Just transfer seats back and forth.

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03-20-2017, 08:52 PM
  #116
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Because people have signed TPA's and the Jets have a wait list. TNSE has made a business decision that they would rather have ticket inventory get into the hands of wait list members than accomodate loyal existing STH by letting them permanantly swap seats amongst themselves.

Edit: you can swap unlimited numbers of seats amongst Jets accounts. Just transfer seats back and forth.

I do understand them not wanting people to circumvent the wait list but if there is one is not increasing their inventory and the same amount of seats are netted to the wait list then what is the harm in that? I understand you can transfer back and forth. However there is a risks that the person you are transferring back and forth with one day doesn't renew. Then you're up sh*#ts creek.

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03-20-2017, 08:57 PM
  #117
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I do understand them not wanting people to circumvent the wait list but if there is one is not increasing their inventory and the same amount of seats are netted to the wait list then what is the harm in that? I understand you can transfer back and forth. However there is a risks that the person you are transferring back and forth with one day doesn't renew. Then you're up sh*#ts creek.
Yes, I don't really understand what harm would be done in permanantly letting two existing STH swap seats and sign a new TPA for ab administrative fee. STH happy, Jets keep inventory sold. Win, Win.

It must boil down to the wait list.

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03-20-2017, 09:01 PM
  #118
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Yes, I don't really understand what harm would be done in permanantly letting two existing STH swap seats and sign a new TPA for ab administrative fee. STH happy, Jets keep inventory sold. Win, Win.

It must boil down to the wait list.
That is until there is still a wait list. I think it's very short sited and they should really reconsider this particular policy.

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03-21-2017, 07:49 AM
  #119
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Yes, I don't really understand what harm would be done in permanantly letting two existing STH swap seats and sign a new TPA for ab administrative fee. STH happy, Jets keep inventory sold. Win, Win.

It must boil down to the wait list.
Perhaps because they don't want to be in the business of mediating a deal between two existing STH?
Anyway, I'm not sure the reason why TNSE wouldn't allow it but it can be done manually...

You each keep your existing seats and TPA and once the games seats are in your account you transfer the whole lot to one another. Done.
If there's a price difference these days with e-transfers even that is pretty simple. Of course it's a little annoying but it could work.

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03-21-2017, 02:22 PM
  #120
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Have they ever advertised like this before?


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03-21-2017, 02:23 PM
  #121
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Perhaps because they don't want to be in the business of mediating a deal between two existing STH?
Anyway, I'm not sure the reason why TNSE wouldn't allow it but it can be done manually...

You each keep your existing seats and TPA and once the games seats are in your account you transfer the whole lot to one another. Done.
If there's a price difference these days with e-transfers even that is pretty simple. Of course it's a little annoying but it could work.
I hear what you're saying and appreciate your input. To me it's a simple transaction, we pay the transfer fee and 2 season seat holders are happy customers. My worry is that if the other side decides for whatever reason not to renew one day then the tickets I use now and which I want permanently which happen to be right beside family and friends would be gone!

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03-21-2017, 02:51 PM
  #122
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Have they ever advertised like this before?

"Section 106, row 10, seats 3 and 4 - these are MY seats," says the dorky-looking Jets fan.

Yes, they have an annoying commercial for SeatExchange out there. I noticed they increased the advertising all around for SeatExchange this season, whether it be in-arena, radio, online, transit buses, etc.

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Yesterday, 12:28 PM
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Just to further exemplify how fortunate we are in Winnipeg to have an Ownership Organization who took the time (and continue to do so) to research and analyze our specific market along with the extremely high expense business of SUSTAINING an NHL franchise here so thoroughly that we as Season Ticket Holders are given a multi-year contract that 100% spells out our costs during that contract term.

Pre-knowledge of a max 3% increase (or even a raised max 5% increase on future contracts) on a yearly basis for the term of a contract that one signs without anyone holding a gun to their head is quite simply a sweetheart deal.

If the Winnipeg Jets had made the playoffs this year...my seat first round would have cost me $109...which is 3% more than the playoff published price last year. If the Jets made it all the way to the Stanley Cup finals...my seat would have cost $218.

Compare this to the Edmonton Oilers playoff pricing (once again the most comparable market in the entire NHL to ours). Same seat first round $182! Same seat finals $364! Even a seat that is 2 levels below these prices far exceeds my price (ie: $135 and $271!)


And max 3% increase guaranteed for multiple years is too much????

I will say it again on behalf of the non-vocal majority in this market...we are very fortunate to have Ownership and spelled out structure like we do here.

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Yesterday, 01:07 PM
  #124
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Just to further exemplify how fortunate we are in Winnipeg to have an Ownership Organization who took the time (and continue to do so) to research and analyze our specific market along with the extremely high expense business of SUSTAINING an NHL franchise here so thoroughly that we as Season Ticket Holders are given a multi-year contract that 100% spells out our costs during that contract term.

Pre-knowledge of a max 3% increase (or even a raised max 5% increase on future contracts) on a yearly basis for the term of a contract that one signs without anyone holding a gun to their head is quite simply a sweetheart deal.

If the Winnipeg Jets had made the playoffs this year...my seat first round would have cost me $109...which is 3% more than the playoff published price last year. If the Jets made it all the way to the Stanley Cup finals...my seat would have cost $218.

Compare this to the Edmonton Oilers playoff pricing (once again the most comparable market in the entire NHL to ours). Same seat first round $182! Same seat finals $364! Even a seat that is 2 levels below these prices far exceeds my price (ie: $135 and $271!)

And max 3% increase guaranteed for multiple years is too much????

I will say it again on behalf of the non-vocal majority in this market...we are very fortunate to have Ownership and spelled out structure like we do here.
We've tried to support the team through tens of thousands of dineros in tickets, concessions and merch but clearly, we have an eternal debt of gratitude. $15M/year in subsidies is not going to cut it and its time we paid the piper. We should take up a collection here at HF Jets. I can probably scrape together another 65 bucks or so. Does anyone have the mailing address for the 3rd Baron of Fleet?


Last edited by Blue Shakehead: Yesterday at 01:12 PM.
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cbcwpg
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Originally Posted by Ober View Post
Just to further exemplify how fortunate we are in Winnipeg to have an Ownership Organization who took the time (and continue to do so) to research and analyze our specific market along with the extremely high expense business of SUSTAINING an NHL franchise here so thoroughly that we as Season Ticket Holders are given a multi-year contract that 100% spells out our costs during that contract term.

Pre-knowledge of a max 3% increase (or even a raised max 5% increase on future contracts) on a yearly basis for the term of a contract that one signs without anyone holding a gun to their head is quite simply a sweetheart deal.

If the Winnipeg Jets had made the playoffs this year...my seat first round would have cost me $109...which is 3% more than the playoff published price last year. If the Jets made it all the way to the Stanley Cup finals...my seat would have cost $218.

Compare this to the Edmonton Oilers playoff pricing (once again the most comparable market in the entire NHL to ours). Same seat first round $182! Same seat finals $364! Even a seat that is 2 levels below these prices far exceeds my price (ie: $135 and $271!)

And max 3% increase guaranteed for multiple years is too much????

I will say it again on behalf of the non-vocal majority in this market...we are very fortunate to have Ownership and spelled out structure like we do here.
And this isn't really a question about the "structure" re: 3% and multi-year contracts...The initial OP wasn't so much questioning the 3% annual increase, as they were questioning the annual 3% increase when the team sucks balls.

Go into business producing an item XYZ. Every year XYZ doesn't change, get any better, or even gets worse. You then keep increasing the price of XYZ each year. Don't you think people are going to question what they are getting for the privilege of paying more?


Last edited by cbcwpg: Yesterday at 01:25 PM.
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