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How did the Red Wings lose in 2009?

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Old
03-17-2017, 06:50 PM
  #26
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That's pretty much the way of it! A few inches and it was back-to-back cups.
A few inches the other way and it would've missed completely.


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03-17-2017, 06:55 PM
  #27
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I still get a bad taste in my mouth thinking about Anaheim's '09 series with Detroit. That series was brutal, and I myself believe that if Anaheim beats Detroit, they can take a younger less experienced Blackhawks team down, and possibly take the cup against Pittsburgh. That's life as a Ducks fan though. Always wondering what if.

As others have said though, that scheduling was brutal. Back to back games in the playoffs is something I've never been a fan of. I want to see the best of the best duking it out as evenly as possible. Not slogging through a game because they are on their 3rd game in 4 nights.

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03-17-2017, 10:00 PM
  #28
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I'm not sure that the Wings are necessarily one of those "How did they lose" type of teams in 2009. Maybe the question is "why" but I wouldn't say "how"? A year earlier this team needed 6 games to beat a greener Pens team, so it made sense to me that a more experienced team would beat them.

But if you are asking "why"? I think Datsyuk missing the first 4 games hurt, but truth be told they had a better record with him out of the lineup than with him in it that series. I know he probably wasn't 100% but what people forget is that neither was Gonchar. Remember the knee on knee hit that he got from Ovechkin in round 2? He misses some time but is back by the end of the series. During the handshake after that series Ovechkin is visibly trying to explain to Gonchar - his countryman - that he didn't mean to stick his knee out. You can see the body language clearly. A reporter asked Gonchar right after that if "all is forgiven" and Gonchar doesn't answer him purposely. That tells you he probably is still mad about it and isn't properly healed yet. Just guessing. Remember, Letang is only in his 2nd season, so Gonchar is still the man on D. Also, Crosby gets injured right in Game 7 too. If the Pens lose that game we would still be talking about the difference Crosby could have made. Maybe if the game is tied they put him out there, but he played one shift in the 3rd period and came right off. He was hurt. So it was never just the Wings.

That scheduling was unusual. I think we have to go back to the WWII era to find a Stanley Cup final that started with two nights in a row and I believe that had to do with the circus being in town. People think the reason is that the NHL wanted the Pens to win and this set things up perfectly. Never mind that the Wings won the first two games. But the truth is, what happened was that the Tonight Show was premiering with Conan OBrien taking over for Jay Leno. This was Conan`s first show on Monday. NBC didn't want the NHL playoffs getting in the way of what was going to be a ratings bonanza. That's it. That's all it was. NBC just dictating things, not the NHL, which is wrong, but it means the NHL is just pandering to the networks, not the Penguins.

I honestly think that Crosby and Malkin were too much for the Wings. They put all of their eggs in one basket for Crosby. They left Malkin on his own more or less and he had 8 points in those 7 games. But they ignored other aspects like Staal and Talbot and such, guys who you wouldn't think would burn you but actually did. Plus, other than Game 5 Fleury played very well. Game 6 and 7 he was epic. This was a Pens team many of us thought was going to win a few.

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03-17-2017, 11:39 PM
  #29
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I enjoyed the 2008 and 2009 Finals (actually I missed more of the '09 one because, as usual, I was in Asia, but I did see game 7). I'm not sure if I've watched much of any Finals' series since then.

Enough with the conspiracy stuff. I really do not think the NHL would conspire to have a small-city team defeat Detroit, their biggest US-hockey market. As Phil said, they just kowtowed to network TV, which, while unfortunate, is not in any way conspiratorial, it's just financial. Also, these are elite athletes, getting paid millions -- no excuses for "we're tired".

Besides, both the Pens and Wings got through the Conference series pretty easily -- Pittsburgh in 4, Detroit in 5. The Wings had three sleeps and two full days off before the Finals started -- and didn't have to travel. The Pens had an extra day or two after sweeping the Conference series, but had to travel to Detroit to start the series on the road. I don't see any big advantage either way. If you can't handle two games in two days on home-ice, I'm not sure you should be playing in the Finals. I doubt the Wings would use that excuse, so their fans shouldn't.

One team was just a bit younger, sharper, and hungrier.

And Max Talbot. Still can't believe the Pens let him go a couple of years later.

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03-18-2017, 10:45 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I'm not sure that the Wings are necessarily one of those "How did they lose" type of teams in 2009. Maybe the question is "why" but I wouldn't say "how"? A year earlier this team needed 6 games to beat a greener Pens team, so it made sense to me that a more experienced team would beat them.
The Penguins lost arguably their best forward from the '08 finals in Hossa and he went to Detroit, essentially replacing Dallas Drake, and you thought more experience would be the determining factor for the Pens going in? That's a little odd, but okay.

In '08 the Penguins were outshot 222 to 142 and outscored 17 to 10 in the finals. The Pens second win was in triple OT, where they got outshot 58 to 32, or it would have ended in 5. The series going 6 games made it sound a lot closer than it actually was.

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But if you are asking "why"? I think Datsyuk missing the first 4 games hurt, but truth be told they had a better record with him out of the lineup than with him in it that series. I know he probably wasn't 100% but what people forget is that neither was Gonchar. Remember the knee on knee hit that he got from Ovechkin in round 2? He misses some time but is back by the end of the series. During the handshake after that series Ovechkin is visibly trying to explain to Gonchar - his countryman - that he didn't mean to stick his knee out. You can see the body language clearly. A reporter asked Gonchar right after that if "all is forgiven" and Gonchar doesn't answer him purposely. That tells you he probably is still mad about it and isn't properly healed yet. Just guessing. Remember, Letang is only in his 2nd season, so Gonchar is still the man on D. Also, Crosby gets injured right in Game 7 too. If the Pens lose that game we would still be talking about the difference Crosby could have made. Maybe if the game is tied they put him out there, but he played one shift in the 3rd period and came right off. He was hurt. So it was never just the Wings.
Holy false equivalence. Gonchar and Datsyuk's situations were not the same at all. Datsyuk was too hurt to even suit up until game 5 and that was probably pushing it. He couldn't even play his normal centre position when he came back so he was far from 100%. Gonchar missed 2 games roughly a month earlier and that's it. If you're going to compare Gonchar's injury with anyone it's Rafalski, who missed 5 games against the Duck about a month earlier as well and was playing hurt. Then we also know Hossa and Cleary were playing with major injuries and Lidstrom and Ericsson had surgery right before the finals started. Major difference in the two teams injury situations no matter how much you try to stretch things.

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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
That scheduling was unusual. I think we have to go back to the WWII era to find a Stanley Cup final that started with two nights in a row and I believe that had to do with the circus being in town. People think the reason is that the NHL wanted the Pens to win and this set things up perfectly. Never mind that the Wings won the first two games. But the truth is, what happened was that the Tonight Show was premiering with Conan OBrien taking over for Jay Leno. This was Conan`s first show on Monday. NBC didn't want the NHL playoffs getting in the way of what was going to be a ratings bonanza. That's it. That's all it was. NBC just dictating things, not the NHL, which is wrong, but it means the NHL is just pandering to the networks, not the Penguins.
You act as if there was no other option for the finals schedule. Dealing with TV networks and availability of arenas is always done. The NHL has never made such an odd schedule to start the finals before or after in the modern era.

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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I honestly think that Crosby and Malkin were too much for the Wings. They put all of their eggs in one basket for Crosby. They left Malkin on his own more or less and he had 8 points in those 7 games. But they ignored other aspects like Staal and Talbot and such, guys who you wouldn't think would burn you but actually did. Plus, other than Game 5 Fleury played very well. Game 6 and 7 he was epic. This was a Pens team many of us thought was going to win a few.
Crosby only got 3 points in the series so saying he was "too much" for Detroit doesn't hold water. Again, if Datsyuk wasn't hurt, Malkin would have to deal with the Selke winner and Hart nominee instead of Filppula, while Zetterberg neutralized and outplayed Crosby. Slight difference, no?

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03-18-2017, 02:58 PM
  #31
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The Penguins lost arguably their best forward from the '08 finals in Hossa and he went to Detroit, essentially replacing Dallas Drake, and you thought more experience would be the determining factor for the Pens going in? That's a little odd, but okay.
Well that's easy. The 2008 team had never been that far before (their young core at least) and they lost and took some hard lessons with it. The 2009 team had been through the ringers before and was hungrier and looking for revenge. Yes I think the 2009 team was far more seasoned and experienced.

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Holy false equivalence. Gonchar and Datsyuk's situations were not the same at all. Datsyuk was too hurt to even suit up until game 5 and that was probably pushing it. He couldn't even play his normal centre position when he came back so he was far from 100%. Gonchar missed 2 games roughly a month earlier and that's it. If you're going to compare Gonchar's injury with anyone it's Rafalski, who missed 5 games against the Duck about a month earlier as well and was playing hurt. Then we also know Hossa and Cleary were playing with major injuries and Lidstrom and Ericsson had surgery right before the finals started. Major difference in the two teams injury situations no matter how much you try to stretch things.
The thing is, we always hear about injuries from the losing team. The winning team doesn't really have time - or even bothers - to say just how hurt they were and how unfair life is. They won. So really, do we get the full extent of just how damaged the Pens were? Do we ever get the full extent from the winning side? No, normally it is the losing side that we focus on. So to think that there weren't Pens players that were hurting after playing in two different 7 game series where they were behind 2-0 both times is silly. Yes, Detroit got some tough luck. Datsyuk being hurt wasn't a good thing. But it isn't any worse than the Rangers losing Jean Ratelle for most of the 1972 playoffs. Maybe a healthy Ratelle makes things harder for the Bruins, who knows? But I've said before, other teams have been able to overcome. Mario was wearing a tensor bandage when he lifted the Cup in 1992 thanks to Adam Graves' slash. Forsberg missed the final two rounds in 2001, but the Avs still won. Chicago and Pittsburgh both had an injury plagued defense yet won the Cup over the last two years when their star defensemen (Keith and the Pens' Letang) stepped up and played amazing. Injuries happen, it is a part of life, but the truly great teams still win.

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You act as if there was no other option for the finals schedule. Dealing with TV networks and availability of arenas is always done. The NHL has never made such an odd schedule to start the finals before or after in the modern era.
I wasn't making the schedule, so I don't know. I am sure the NHL wanted more ratings on the weekend rather than getting in the way of NBC and the first time Conan O'Brien was on the Tonight Show. I wouldn't have caved to NBC, but it was a unique situation. By the way, the whole thing should have been put to bed by sour Red Wings fans immediately after Game 2, because they were up 2-0! At this point all you have to do is NOT lose 4 of the next 5 games and you win the Cup. Sorry, this is not an excuse.

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Crosby only got 3 points in the series so saying he was "too much" for Detroit doesn't hold water. Again, if Datsyuk wasn't hurt, Malkin would have to deal with the Selke winner and Hart nominee instead of Filppula, while Zetterberg neutralized and outplayed Crosby. Slight difference, no?
The combination of Crosby AND Malkin were too much. When these two are on their game it is very hard to stop them. They contained Crosby and went to great lengths to do so which meant Malkin was sort of left to run around on his own. He was a pivotal reason why the Pens won Game 3 and 4, he had 5 points combined and then assisted on the opening goal in Game 7. They just couldn't find a way to contain two star centers. If Datsyuk is healthy, who knows what happens and how the Pens adjust. It was a tough break for them that he missed some time but look, I'm a Leafs fan and some people in my fan base still won't stop talking about Gretzky's high stick in 1993. I get sick of it. We still lost a Game 7 at home which was separate from that non-call. Great teams don't need to make excuses.

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03-18-2017, 07:36 PM
  #32
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Amazing to think that the '09 Pens won the Cup with basically no great wings, two players doing most of the heavy lifting, Fleury not playing well as he had the prior year, coming back from 0-2 deficits TWICE without home-ice advantage.

Lot of things fell their way: They only had home-ice vs. the Flyers in round one because Philly lost on the last night of the season to the Rangers, the 3-0 game 6 comeback, dodging 1 seed Boston twice (Carolina beating New Jersey and then the Bruins)

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03-18-2017, 08:37 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I'm not sure that the Wings are necessarily one of those "How did they lose" type of teams in 2009. Maybe the question is "why" but I wouldn't say "how"? A year earlier this team needed 6 games to beat a greener Pens team, so it made sense to me that a more experienced team would beat them.

But if you are asking "why"? I think Datsyuk missing the first 4 games hurt, but truth be told they had a better record with him out of the lineup than with him in it that series. I know he probably wasn't 100% but what people forget is that neither was Gonchar. Remember the knee on knee hit that he got from Ovechkin in round 2? He misses some time but is back by the end of the series. During the handshake after that series Ovechkin is visibly trying to explain to Gonchar - his countryman - that he didn't mean to stick his knee out. You can see the body language clearly. A reporter asked Gonchar right after that if "all is forgiven" and Gonchar doesn't answer him purposely. That tells you he probably is still mad about it and isn't properly healed yet. Just guessing. Remember, Letang is only in his 2nd season, so Gonchar is still the man on D. Also, Crosby gets injured right in Game 7 too. If the Pens lose that game we would still be talking about the difference Crosby could have made. Maybe if the game is tied they put him out there, but he played one shift in the 3rd period and came right off. He was hurt. So it was never just the Wings.

That scheduling was unusual. I think we have to go back to the WWII era to find a Stanley Cup final that started with two nights in a row and I believe that had to do with the circus being in town. People think the reason is that the NHL wanted the Pens to win and this set things up perfectly. Never mind that the Wings won the first two games. But the truth is, what happened was that the Tonight Show was premiering with Conan OBrien taking over for Jay Leno. This was Conan`s first show on Monday. NBC didn't want the NHL playoffs getting in the way of what was going to be a ratings bonanza. That's it. That's all it was. NBC just dictating things, not the NHL, which is wrong, but it means the NHL is just pandering to the networks, not the Penguins.

I honestly think that Crosby and Malkin were too much for the Wings. They put all of their eggs in one basket for Crosby. They left Malkin on his own more or less and he had 8 points in those 7 games. But they ignored other aspects like Staal and Talbot and such, guys who you wouldn't think would burn you but actually did. Plus, other than Game 5 Fleury played very well. Game 6 and 7 he was epic. This was a Pens team many of us thought was going to win a few.
Absolutely.

Talk of a dynasty was in the air.

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03-19-2017, 05:23 PM
  #34
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Absolutely.

Talk of a dynasty was in the air.
Injuries really torpedoed the Pens in subsequent years, preventing another Cup appearance until last season. But the four Cups do match the Rangers lifetime output, and the Pens are just one behind Boston.

In terms of the 2008-09 SCF, I agree with the comment about the Pens getting better with experience, and Marc-Andre Fleury was outstanding those last two games in Detroit. Also, the Pens were playing with a chip on their shoulder in the SCF, remembering Hossa's comment about why he chose the Wings over the Pens. Words to the effect "I want to play for the team with the best chance to win the Cup" was idiotic.

In terms of whether the league office would try and conspire to give the Pens an edge in the series, that's nonsense. If the Wings win Game 7, that conspiracy theory never sees the light of day.

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03-19-2017, 05:25 PM
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In terms of whether the league office would try and conspire to give the Pens an edge in the series, that's nonsense. If the Wings win Game 7, that conspiracy theory never sees the light of day.
People were talking about the scheduling a lot before the series even began, given the terrible shape Detroit was in by the end of the Chicago series. The Malkin non-suspension was also a very hot topic before the series was even half over.

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03-19-2017, 11:54 PM
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yeah sure the league would conspire against an original six team known as "hockey town" so the small market team wins a cup...

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03-20-2017, 12:55 AM
  #37
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Injuries really torpedoed the Pens in subsequent years, preventing another Cup appearance until last season. But the four Cups do match the Rangers lifetime output, and the Pens are just one behind Boston.
*two

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03-20-2017, 01:18 AM
  #38
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Scheduling, injuries, Pittsburgh getting some bounces, all played a big part. Not one for conspiracies but there hasn't been another team that has benefited from questionable decisions more than Pittsburgh. I don't think anyone can honestly say the league was treating both teams equally during the 09 finals.

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03-20-2017, 04:25 AM
  #39
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Scheduling, injuries, Pittsburgh getting some bounces, all played a big part. Not one for conspiracies but there hasn't been another team that has benefited from questionable decisions more than Pittsburgh.
What exactly are these "questionable decisions" that were more in Pittsburgh's favor than those for any other team in history?

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03-20-2017, 07:23 AM
  #40
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yeah sure the league would conspire against an original six team known as "hockey town" so the small market team wins a cup...
Who is calling it a conspiracy?

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03-20-2017, 12:59 PM
  #41
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People were talking about the scheduling a lot before the series even began, given the terrible shape Detroit was in by the end of the Chicago series. The Malkin non-suspension was also a very hot topic before the series was even half over.
The "conspiracy talk" actually went all the way back to Game 6 in the '08 finals. Watch the last 2 minutes of that game again.

Detroit is up 3-1 and they call Hudler for a light hook of the hands on Staal. It really had no affect on the play because Staal's drop pass back to Malkin happened anyways, but okay, they're going to call it by the book for the rest of the game, right?

Nope. On the PP Malone chops Lilja's stick out of his hands, which probably should have been a penalty, but not only that, Sykora then pushes the stick further away making it more difficult for Lilja to get it back (definite penalty). Then Gonchar scores and it's 3-2. Then Datsyuk has a golden opportunity to seal the game with the empty net and he's tripped. No call, play on, and Hossa almost ties it in the dying seconds. Luckily the mockery in officiating didn't work and the Cup is awarded anyways.

Then the NHL makes a national commercial in the summer showing highlights of the finals and every clip shows only pro Penguin plays and goals. Weird stuff. Babcock mentioned this at one point, too.

But yeah, when the schedule was released there was a lot of talk about it because it was so strange and everyone knew the injury situation for Detroit was severe. The best defenseman and best two-way centre in the world both miss the end of the WCF and suddenly the finals is supposed to start with a 2 day break and then 3 games in 4 days? It was unheard of at the time and they haven't done it since. Looks too suspicious to not think about a conspiracy.

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03-20-2017, 01:09 PM
  #42
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Who is calling it a conspiracy?
I'm okay with it being called that. I think we may hear more about it through biographies and interviews after some of the league officials retire. There was just too much weird stuff going on and the push to market Crosby was huge.

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03-20-2017, 01:24 PM
  #43
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The thing is, we always hear about injuries from the losing team. The winning team doesn't really have time - or even bothers - to say just how hurt they were and how unfair life is. They won. So really, do we get the full extent of just how damaged the Pens were? Do we ever get the full extent from the winning side? No, normally it is the losing side that we focus on. So to think that there weren't Pens players that were hurting after playing in two different 7 game series where they were behind 2-0 both times is silly. Yes, Detroit got some tough luck. Datsyuk being hurt wasn't a good thing. But it isn't any worse than the Rangers losing Jean Ratelle for most of the 1972 playoffs. Maybe a healthy Ratelle makes things harder for the Bruins, who knows? But I've said before, other teams have been able to overcome. Mario was wearing a tensor bandage when he lifted the Cup in 1992 thanks to Adam Graves' slash. Forsberg missed the final two rounds in 2001, but the Avs still won. Chicago and Pittsburgh both had an injury plagued defense yet won the Cup over the last two years when their star defensemen (Keith and the Pens' Letang) stepped up and played amazing. Injuries happen, it is a part of life, but the truly great teams still win.
That's not even true. Teams are reported on all summer now and there are beat reporters following teams so if you are paying attention you will hear about their injuries, win or lose. The Penguins did not have even close the amount, nor severity, of injuries that the Red Wings had so stop trying to pretend they did.

The Red Wings almost did pull it off without a healthy Datsyuk and they were a "truly great team" because they still nearly won with about half the team playing with bad injuries, while trying to repeat in an era where that simply doesn't happen anymore. Even healthy teams can't seem to make it back to the finals anymore after winning the Cup.

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I wasn't making the schedule, so I don't know. I am sure the NHL wanted more ratings on the weekend rather than getting in the way of NBC and the first time Conan O'Brien was on the Tonight Show. I wouldn't have caved to NBC, but it was a unique situation. By the way, the whole thing should have been put to bed by sour Red Wings fans immediately after Game 2, because they were up 2-0! At this point all you have to do is NOT lose 4 of the next 5 games and you win the Cup. Sorry, this is not an excuse.
They were up 2-0 but they looked gassed and won by gritting it out. Being worn down like that helped turn the tide in the series. Maybe the Pens still win, who knows, but it would have been nice if the NHL could have went with a regular finals schedule when they knew Detroit finished off the last series without Datsyuk, Lidstrom, or Ericsson. Instead it seemed like the league just piled on and made it even more difficult with a one-time rush schedule.

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The combination of Crosby AND Malkin were too much. When these two are on their game it is very hard to stop them. They contained Crosby and went to great lengths to do so which meant Malkin was sort of left to run around on his own. He was a pivotal reason why the Pens won Game 3 and 4, he had 5 points combined and then assisted on the opening goal in Game 7. They just couldn't find a way to contain two star centers. If Datsyuk is healthy, who knows what happens and how the Pens adjust. It was a tough break for them that he missed some time but look, I'm a Leafs fan and some people in my fan base still won't stop talking about Gretzky's high stick in 1993. I get sick of it. We still lost a Game 7 at home which was separate from that non-call. Great teams don't need to make excuses.
Let's look at that the other way. If either Malkin or Crosby was injured like Datsyuk and the two headed monster of Datsyuk/Zetterberg got to play Pittsburgh with only one of their healthy stars, it would be too much as well, right? I doubt it even goes 7 if the roles were reversed.

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03-20-2017, 03:17 PM
  #44
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The "conspiracy talk" actually went all the way back to Game 6 in the '08 finals. Watch the last 2 minutes of that game again.

Detroit is up 3-1 and they call Hudler for a light hook of the hands on Staal. It really had no affect on the play because Staal's drop pass back to Malkin happened anyways, but okay, they're going to call it by the book for the rest of the game, right?

Nope. On the PP Malone chops Lilja's stick out of his hands, which probably should have been a penalty, but not only that, Sykora then pushes the stick further away making it more difficult for Lilja to get it back (definite penalty). Then Gonchar scores and it's 3-2. Then Datsyuk has a golden opportunity to seal the game with the empty net and he's tripped. No call, play on, and Hossa almost ties it in the dying seconds. Luckily the mockery in officiating didn't work and the Cup is awarded anyways.


Then the NHL makes a national commercial in the summer showing highlights of the finals and every clip shows only pro Penguin plays and goals. Weird stuff. Babcock mentioned this at one point, too.

But yeah, when the schedule was released there was a lot of talk about it because it was so strange and everyone knew the injury situation for Detroit was severe. The best defenseman and best two-way centre in the world both miss the end of the WCF and suddenly the finals is supposed to start with a 2 day break and then 3 games in 4 days? It was unheard of at the time and they haven't done it since. Looks too suspicious to not think about a conspiracy.
I remember that and still can't see how the refs put their whistles away there. Those penalties by the Pens led directly to one goal and almost a second. Although Detroit won the Cup, the whole thing still stunk.

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03-20-2017, 03:39 PM
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HowsUrBreath
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Who is calling it a conspiracy?
anybody that thinks the wings got screwed

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03-20-2017, 03:54 PM
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anybody that thinks the wings got screwed
That's not what a conspiracy is.

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03-20-2017, 07:26 PM
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That's not what a conspiracy is.
it isn't?

people think the league went out of their way to schedule the games in a way to hurt the beat up wings

accusing the refs of intentionally ignoring penalties against the pens

giving malkin a pass for the fight at the end of game 2

sounds to me people think the NHL officials got together and decided to do all they can to help the pens win the cup and screw over the wings, which would be a conspiracy right?

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03-20-2017, 08:36 PM
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it isn't?

people think the league went out of their way to schedule the games in a way to hurt the beat up wings

accusing the refs of intentionally ignoring penalties against the pens

giving malkin a pass for the fight at the end of game 2

sounds to me people think the NHL officials got together and decided to do all they can to help the pens win the cup and screw over the wings, which would be a conspiracy right?
Is it that hard to envision the league wanting a close series and not wanting to suspend a superstar player for big primetime TV games?

Nothing wild and outlandish about that.

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03-20-2017, 09:58 PM
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Is it that hard to envision the league wanting a close series and not wanting to suspend a superstar player for big primetime TV games?

Nothing wild and outlandish about that.
i'm sure they would want that, what league wouldn't?

why didn't the league try to make the series between the rangers and kings go longer than 5 games? why would they care more about a team from pittsburgh winning than new york?

malkin doesn't bring in tv ratings, only hockey people know him and they would watch the finals no matter who is playing

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03-21-2017, 05:26 AM
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Many reasons they lost.

They scheduling didn't help, neither did the officials allowing Pittsburgh to play with too many men on the ice for almost a minute in game 3. I believe the Wings were leading by one goal when it happened. Who knows what happens if the NHL's refs call the penalty there like they're supposed to. Malkin not getting suspended despite getting an instigator at the end of game 2 was a joke. The league clearly favored the Pens on that one. The injuries didn't help either. Datsyuk, Lidstrom, even supposedly Hossa were hurt.

Listing a bunch of things that "didn't help"... isn't the same as listing reasons why they lost... unless you're being passive-aggressive and/or nervous about saying what's really on your mind because it'll sound like excuses and whining... but I'll play along:

If by "almost a minute" you mean "21 seconds" because there's a difference when you're painting a picture for people who didn't watch that game ...

and if by "who knows what would have happened" you mean "we all know nothing would have happened" because neither of the 2 players who subbed in for the 5th guy came into the play, let alone touched the puck while the 3 Pens forwards cycled it down low (I mean, it's not like the Wings were on the attack and the 6th Pen prevented a Wing scoring chance, right?)...

and if by "NHL's refs" you mean "anybody in the building" because NOBODY on either team or in the stands noticed... which really reinforces the point that nothing would have happened, because they were so so so inconsequential to the play, that literally... nobody noticed them...

... then I agree with you, it did not help them win the cup.

And IF the NHL's refs would have called that a penalty (like they should have)... do they then have to call penalties on the Red Wings whenever they cover the puck in their own crease with their hands but don't have "OSGOOD" written on their backs? Because that REEEEALLLY wouldn't have helped the Red Wings win the cup either.

Injuries never help players win Cups (except for Mario, who seems to find a higher level of play the more severe the injury is). But yeah, it's a pretty well known fact that all 40 players in the rink, on both sides of the puck, are injured.

Complaining about scheduling and isolating it to the difference between 2 days off, and 3 days off before Game 1, seems a bit silly to me. I mean, I feel ya... but... I'd be way more inclined to point to the whole season's schedule and cite the short summer and the fact that it's a brutal brutal grind.

Obviously Pens fans would say "Um, remember? We played you guys in the finals the previous year? So yeah we know, because we've played just as many games as you have in the same amount of time." Now... that counter-point kinda screws my original argument though... so yeah, maybe don't use it, and just stick to your "That extra day off cost us the Cup" mantra.

I'm sorry, after seeing Brett Hull score a Cup Winning goal that's against the rules, and the NHL realizing in that very moment how dumb their rule was and turning a blind eye to it... I can't feel sorry for anybody who thinks Geno should have been suspended. He is OBVIOUSLY not the type of player that the league was trying to oust from the sport, when they implemented that rule. Think about the purpose of that rule, for real.

Yes, I do agree that rules should be followed to the letter. But now ask yourself this... if you could rewrite history, and serve Geno that suspension, and let the Finals unfold from there... without knowing the end result... would you be prepared to stick by that ruling knowing that at some point down the road an elite-level Red Wing is going to do the exact same thing, in the exact same scenario? (In other words, do you really think it's a good rule?). Because if not, then you really need to stop using "Geno should have been suspended!!!" as an excuse, and as an example of favouritism. Honestly.

If that was Zetterberg, he wouldn't have been suspended either... you do realize that, right?


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