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Keeping Players out of Canadian Junior Leagues

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Old
03-28-2017, 03:22 AM
  #26
Alessandro Seren Rosso
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
I have no problem if average & under average Russian prospects moving to NA to try their luck. I have problem with elite Russian prospects doing this - they would get their KHL chance, 100%. Talking "I would sit on bench in KHL" is weak excuse.
For goalies I don't think it's a weak excuse. Goalies need to play.
A team like Severstal should have 80% of players in roster under 23.

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03-28-2017, 04:36 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
While of course there is the problem of the agents and the "american dream" that can work only for uneducated people as someone else said, my opinion is also that young players don't have enough chances in many cases.
The KHL should give the teams a much harder limit on number of (full-time) roster players (I think that at this point CSKA and SKA have 100 players in roster combined) so to achieve two things: 1) players will be more spread with the different clubs and 2) young players will have more space.
If you let young players play, they'll stay. Of course, not them all, but a good percentage.
And teams should have more long-term goals. There's no need for a team like severstal to change coach three times a year, signing veteran players and trashing money on expensive foreign players. Have for 3 years a young team, rebuild, they showed they can produce good players (buchnevich, shipachyov, ketov, kiselevich, chudinov) and then we'll see.

Look at what Bardin told me last week: http://thehockeywriters.com/behind-t...ikhail-berdin/

THW: After the season with Team Russia U18 you moved overseas. How did it all happen?

MB: I started the season with Severstal, but I wasn’t given a chance to play in the KHL, therefore I decided to continue my career in North America.

and

THW: Playing in the USHL you probably don’t have many chances to be noticed by national team scouts. You weren’t called by Valeri Bragin to the Canada-Russia series.

MB: Well, what kind of chances would I have got if I spent the whole season in the KHL without getting any ice time?
Well, it is not like Berdin would be warming the bench as a back-up in the KHL, probably would be a starter guy in MHL. Not exactly a perfect solution (a perfect solution, imo, would be a VHL role similar to Sukhachyov), but not like he wouldn't play at all.

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03-28-2017, 03:10 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Caser View Post
Well, it is not like Berdin would be warming the bench as a back-up in the KHL, probably would be a starter guy in MHL. Not exactly a perfect solution (a perfect solution, imo, would be a VHL role similar to Sukhachyov), but not like he wouldn't play at all.
Well probably he was a big-head once he was the starter for the U18 and thought he was "too cool" to play MHL. He may have a point, though, I think he's an excellent young goalie and it seems that he is having a good season.
But Berdin was just an example.
What do you think of the rest of my post?

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03-29-2017, 02:24 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
Well probably he was a big-head once he was the starter for the U18 and thought he was "too cool" to play MHL. He may have a point, though, I think he's an excellent young goalie and it seems that he is having a good season.
But Berdin was just an example.
What do you think of the rest of my post?
To be honest, I don't see the issue here (not saying there isn't an issue though), I mean, if we take both SKA and CSKA, they are doing well in giving their top younger players VHL time. Also returning to Berdin's issue - I think he could've played in VHL, but Izhstal has other goalies (I guess it is because of Izhstal not being a full-time affiliate), so here we have a case when MHL-to-VHL chain is not working properly.

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04-01-2017, 11:03 AM
  #30
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Perhaps a way to fight the trend of overseas flight is to improve the training regimen in the MHL. The MHL/KHL could exercise the option of toughening and strengthening their training regime with the goal of developing more complete, skilled hockey prospects better able to compete for the best pro jobs. After all, there are a lot of veterans of the Soviet era still around who could advise on the training methods that helped them develop the remarkable skill, conditioning, teamwork and other attributes that made them so great.

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04-03-2017, 11:29 PM
  #31
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Well, now the IIHF should just ban every player playng in NA from ALL IIHF events for 10 years at least.

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04-04-2017, 03:21 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Perhaps a way to fight the trend of overseas flight is to improve the training regimen in the MHL. The MHL/KHL could exercise the option of toughening and strengthening their training regime with the goal of developing more complete, skilled hockey prospects better able to compete for the best pro jobs. After all, there are a lot of veterans of the Soviet era still around who could advise on the training methods that helped them develop the remarkable skill, conditioning, teamwork and other attributes that made them so great.
They want to do it & not only in MHL but also in kid hockey

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07-06-2017, 07:13 AM
  #33
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Russian Hockey Federation adopted some changes regarding of development of players.

They adopted rules on education (licence) of coaches. All coaches working in Russian hockey, especially youth hockey, will have to "renew" their licence. They will learn the most modern way of coaching.

FHR will launch regional branches since 17/18 season. They role is to implement the changes of developing of players into real life, which FHR is working on. Now there are some institutions in regions (межрегиональные координационные центры), but they are independent from FHR, so FHR can not control them. So FHR decided to launch their own branches. They are North-West, South, Sibir, Ural, Far East & Povolzhie. No branches in Moscow and Peterburg, because the FHR plans to sign a agreement with those two hockey federations to implement changes of developing process. The FHR can control Moscow/Peterburg easier than other regions.

They adopted principles of hockey ethic codex.

The FHR registers player when he is 8 years old. Players can change a team (hockey school) for free until 12 years. Transfers are paid when a player reaches 12 years. He can leave his hockey school (team) only with a yes from the team before his last "kids" season (it is 15-16 years if I know). A hockey school (team) has a right to require a financial compensation from a player if he is going to abroad & the team does not agree with his release. A coach, who developped a player, gets some financial compensation when a players sign his first pro contract. If I know, the first pro contract is signed at 16-17 years with MHL (KHL) team.

source

Roman Rotenberg said that the FHR has signed over 750 international transfer cards to players for last three years, including players going to foreign junior leagues, but also NHL (Radulov, Zaitsev). Below 1% of all these players are regulars in NHL. So waste of talent.

source

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07-06-2017, 08:56 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Russian Hockey Federation adopted some changes regarding of development of players.

They adopted rules on education (licence) of coaches. All coaches working in Russian hockey, especially youth hockey, will have to "renew" their licence. They will learn the most modern way of coaching.

FHR will launch regional branches since 17/18 season. They role is to implement the changes of developing of players into real life, which FHR is working on. Now there are some institutions in regions (межрегиональные координационные центры), but they are independent from FHR, so FHR can not control them. So FHR decided to launch their own branches. They are North-West, South, Sibir, Ural, Far East & Povolzhie. No branches in Moscow and Peterburg, because the FHR plans to sign a agreement with those two hockey federations to implement changes of developing process. The FHR can control Moscow/Peterburg easier than other regions.

They adopted principles of hockey ethic codex.

The FHR registers player when he is 8 years old. Players can change a team (hockey school) for free until 12 years. Transfers are paid when a player reaches 12 years. He can leave his hockey school (team) only with a yes from the team before his last "kids" season (it is 15-16 years if I know). A hockey school (team) has a right to require a financial compensation from a player if he is going to abroad & the team does not agree with his release. A coach, who developped a player, gets some financial compensation when a players sign his first pro contract. If I know, the first pro contract is signed at 16-17 years with MHL (KHL) team.

source

Roman Rotenberg said that the FHR has signed over 750 international transfer cards to players for last three years, including players going to foreign junior leagues, but also NHL (Radulov, Zaitsev). Below 1% of all these players are regulars in NHL. So waste of talent.

source
Well said. It appears that these are necessary steps to correct a bad situation for everyone in Russian hockey. Many KHL club affiliates are developing youth talent only to have them flee to Canada or the USA at the most critical stage of their development. Russian hockey gets little or nothing in return, and most of the kids who go leave hockey when they fail to achieve their dreams. More needs to be done, but this is a start.

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07-06-2017, 09:47 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Well said. It appears that these are necessary steps to correct a bad situation for everyone in Russian hockey. Many KHL club affiliates are developing youth talent only to have them flee to Canada or the USA at the most critical stage of their development. Russian hockey gets little or nothing in return, and most of the kids who go leave hockey when they fail to achieve their dreams. More needs to be done, but this is a start.
Yeah. I forgot that the FHR adopted some changes regarding of agent licences. The KHL has to agree with changes. No details available, only that they will increase a sum for agent licence.

I do not know what is worse for Russian hockey - "agents" or some "journalists" of Malamud/Kalnins level (NA media call them Russia hockey experts, giving them credit). I give you an example of discussion with Kalnins about transfers from Russia (and Europe) to NA.

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07-06-2017, 03:53 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Yeah. I forgot that the FHR adopted some changes regarding of agent licences. The KHL has to agree with changes. No details available, only that they will increase a sum for agent licence.

I do not know what is worse for Russian hockey - "agents" or some "journalists" of Malamud/Kalnins level (NA media call them Russia hockey experts, giving them credit). I give you an example of discussion with Kalnins about transfers from Russia (and Europe) to NA.

And he is talking about people being "stupid!" Is he an agent or journalist? Based on the way he is rationalizing how these kids are having a good potential future ruined, and Russia gets nothing for the cost of developing them, I have to believe he is an agent.

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07-06-2017, 05:05 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
And he is talking about people being "stupid!" Is he an agent or journalist? Based on the way he is rationalizing how these kids are having a good potential future ruined, and Russia gets nothing for the cost of developing them, I have to believe he is an agent.
His twitter profile says 'player recruitment at 2112 agency.'.

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07-07-2017, 05:55 AM
  #38
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Kalnins was just an example, he is not important guy in hockey bussiness. The real problem is that European hockey club officials have the same opinion, at least many of them. To give you an example, I will name Alliance of European Hockey Clubs. The Alliance was created last year, Szemberg (former IIHF) is a key person here. They have some mission on their website:

1) "Cooperation – with all relevant sporting bodies (IIHF, CHL, NHL, NHLPA, etc)" Of course, they do not mention the KHL

2) "To safeguard and promote the interests of European hockey clubs in particular, and European club hockey in general;" Promote? To be a puppet of the NHL?

3) "To contribute to the sustainability of European club hockey by representing the interests of the clubs in interaction and cooperation with relevant hockey leagues and organizations in North America;" These guys have ruined European club hockey via IIHF & National Federations. Now they want to "contribute"?

4) "To be involved and have influence in crucial club related areas such as playing rules, international transfers, international calendar, arena development, equipment and player safety;" These guys negotiated BAD transfer agreement with the NHL. Now they want to negotiate new (WORSE) one? Calendar? The same guys refused the KHL´s proposal to change an international calendar a few years ago.

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07-07-2017, 11:17 AM
  #39
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The best strategy is still players having parents with actual heads on their shoulders instead of pumpkins. But that is beyond influence. Dumb parents ruin the future of their kids. Applies to 70-80% of them.

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07-07-2017, 11:31 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Kalnins was just an example, he is not important guy in hockey bussiness. The real problem is that European hockey club officials have the same opinion, at least many of them. To give you an example, I will name Alliance of European Hockey Clubs. The Alliance was created last year, Szemberg (former IIHF) is a key person here. They have some mission on their website:

1) "Cooperation – with all relevant sporting bodies (IIHF, CHL, NHL, NHLPA, etc)" Of course, they do not mention the KHL

2) "To safeguard and promote the interests of European hockey clubs in particular, and European club hockey in general;" Promote? To be a puppet of the NHL?

3) "To contribute to the sustainability of European club hockey by representing the interests of the clubs in interaction and cooperation with relevant hockey leagues and organizations in North America;" These guys have ruined European club hockey via IIHF & National Federations. Now they want to "contribute"?

4) "To be involved and have influence in crucial club related areas such as playing rules, international transfers, international calendar, arena development, equipment and player safety;" These guys negotiated BAD transfer agreement with the NHL. Now they want to negotiate new (WORSE) one? Calendar? The same guys refused the KHL´s proposal to change an international calendar a few years ago.
I believe that other European countries have a totally different agenda. They (Sweden and Finland included) don't have a major domestic league to staff, so they think that the best thing they can do for their kid prospects is to get them ready for the NHL. They measure the quality of their programs by how many of their products are skating across the pond. In my opinion, Russia needs a completely different agenda focused on the KHL, because the majority of KHL teams are in the territory of the Russian Federation. Its Russian fans who should matter most!

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07-07-2017, 01:16 PM
  #41
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The best strategy is still players having parents with actual heads on their shoulders instead of pumpkins. But that is beyond influence. Dumb parents ruin the future of their kids. Applies to 70-80% of them.
These parents follow advise of agents.

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07-07-2017, 03:36 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
I believe that other European countries have a totally different agenda. They (Sweden and Finland included) don't have a major domestic league to staff, so they think that the best thing they can do for their kid prospects is to get them ready for the NHL. They measure the quality of their programs by how many of their products are skating across the pond. In my opinion, Russia needs a completely different agenda focused on the KHL, because the majority of KHL teams are in the territory of the Russian Federation. Its Russian fans who should matter most!
I get your point on Europeans. But why do Europeans agree with such a bad transfer agreement with the NHL? They get peanuts from the NHL for their players. IMO Europeans have no vision & are happy to be a NHL puppet. Simply, Europeans have no desire to negotiate better deal with the NHL. Or negotiators from European side are amateurs.

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07-07-2017, 03:46 PM
  #43
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I get your point on Europeans. But why do Europeans agree with such a bad transfer agreement with the NHL? They get peanuts from the NHL for their players. IMO Europeans have no vision & are happy to be a NHL puppet. Simply, Europeans have no desire to negotiate better deal with the NHL. Or negotiators from European side are amateurs.
I agree. The loss of revenue to the NHL results in fewer resources to distribute to improve hockey in their country!

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07-07-2017, 04:14 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Its Russian fans who should matter most!
Unfortunately, lately Russian fans are too busy in talking bad about C/SKA than caring about Russian hockey.
Not that it's a wrong thing per se, since the situation with those two teams is redicolous, but Russian fans are too negative. That is, in average, of course.

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07-07-2017, 10:53 PM
  #45
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2) "To safeguard and promote the interests of European hockey clubs in particular, and European club hockey in general;" Promote? To be a puppet of the NHL?
Vassal leagues.

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07-07-2017, 11:03 PM
  #46
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Interesting to see young Russian players like Kaprizov and Sorokin choosing to stay at home and spurning North America for a while. They are of course not prospects anymore, but I hope their decisions are indicative of a new trend.

Unlike most Russians who leave, these guys are very well compensated which makes their decision easier. They have parents, girlfriends in Russia and aren't very eager to leave. They can buy a home and live very well.

I understand that young prospects will not be compensated nearly as well at their level, not at ages 16-18. But more can be done to provide financial security for prospects, especially those that are projected to be successful. It hurts to see a guy like Khovanov leave for the CHL.

I don't think he would have left if he was truly taken care of in terms of finances and playing opportunities. Maybe Rotenberg can spare some money from his billions and invest in keeping kids like this in Russia? What is stopping him from doing this exactly, except the fact that he wouldn't personally see financial dividends?

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07-08-2017, 04:31 AM
  #47
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These parents follow advise of agents.
Grown ups hear the advice, think and do whatever THEY deem right, not ncessarily the advisor. There are McDonald's ads. I never eat there.

So it is still the same. The parents are at this age the decisive part of the equation. If they listen to wrong advisors and make mistakes, it's on them.

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07-08-2017, 06:51 PM
  #48
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Grown ups hear the advice, think and do whatever THEY deem right, not ncessarily the advisor. There are McDonald's ads. I never eat there.

So it is still the same. The parents are at this age the decisive part of the equation. If they listen to wrong advisors and make mistakes, it's on them.
It's pretty easy to sway people's decisions, especially those that have no clue what is going in.

Agents, especially, have a lot of experience of swaying decisions.

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07-10-2017, 01:34 AM
  #49
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It's pretty easy to sway people's decisions, especially those that have no clue what is going in.

Agents, especially, have a lot of experience of swaying decisions.
It is not easy to sway mine. What should I call those parents if theirs is easy to sway?

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07-10-2017, 06:48 AM
  #50
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It is not easy to sway mine. What should I call those parents if theirs is easy to sway?
Regular people.

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