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Ideas of why we cant beat Ottawa.

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Old
03-14-2008, 09:32 PM
  #51
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You must have watched a different game than I did because this was one of montreal's worst games of the season...montreal wasnt skating and considering Montreal is a skating team they lost...simple as that...If montreal skates they can outskate probably any team in the league and increase their chances of winning

Although the refs werent any good whats new there...montreal can only blame themselves
people can blame refs all they want...in the end we still score ZERO goals. so like you said, only themselves to blame.

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03-14-2008, 11:52 PM
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Maybe they are just better than us?

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03-15-2008, 12:47 AM
  #53
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One of the reason is because their first line is better than our first line. Most of the goals ottawa scores against us this season are from their first line.

Heres the percentage their 1st line score against us from each of the 6 game

Game 6: Ott won, 2 of the 3 goals were scored by Ott first line
Game 5: Ott won, 6 on 6
Game 4: Mtl won 4-3, Habs first line scored 3 goals, Sens first line scored 1
Game 3: Ott won, 3 of the 4 goals were scored by Ott first line
Game 2: Ott won, 2 of the 3 goals were scored by Ott first line
Game 1: Ott won, 2 of the 4 goals were scored by Ott first line

So on the 5 wins against us, 75% of the Sens goal were scored by their first line. I think that explains it all. So to beat the Sens, we have to stop their first line.

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03-15-2008, 01:28 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by transitguy View Post
Maybe they are just better than us?
Same was said about the Rangers.

Phoenix Coyotes just the other day beat the Anaheim Ducks. If we can get the Yotes with ten minutes of effort while the Yotes can tough it up and beat the Ducks, shouldn't that mean that we should cakewalk the Ducks? We didn't.

Hockey is a game of variables, luck and talent. With a larger influx of talent and the use of defensive systems, plus the greater ability of goaltenders and the larger crackdown of penalties (not to mention bad calls...) the parity in this league is uncanny. This very same team could play Ottawa 40 times and you won't see the Habs lose 40 times. That's because variables, luck and talent can never give you the same results every time.

Once the Habs "get" how to play Bryan Murray, you'll get a win from the Habs. Afterall, even the Leafs blew out the Sens this year.

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03-15-2008, 02:00 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Exactly, any team that will end up having 7 players with 50 pts or more is a one line team...

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03-15-2008, 02:07 AM
  #56
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Don't ask me where it cames from, it's a chidish joke anyway, but everytime I read this wonderful weekly avatar of mine I can't stop adding "and she has a playoff beard too"...

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03-15-2008, 02:11 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
One of the reason is because their first line is better than our first line. Most of the goals ottawa scores against us this season are from their first line.

Heres the percentage their 1st line score against us from each of the 6 game

Game 6: Ott won, 2 of the 3 goals were scored by Ott first line
Game 5: Ott won, 6 on 6
Game 4: Mtl won 4-3, Habs first line scored 3 goals, Sens first line scored 1
Game 3: Ott won, 3 of the 4 goals were scored by Ott first line
Game 2: Ott won, 2 of the 3 goals were scored by Ott first line
Game 1: Ott won, 2 of the 4 goals were scored by Ott first line

So on the 5 wins against us, 75% of the Sens goal were scored by their first line. I think that explains it all. So to beat the Sens, we have to stop their first line.
Game, set, and match. THIS IS WHY. Look no further. We have trouble shutting down top talent like that for 60 mins.

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03-15-2008, 02:22 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by senators39 View Post
LET'S talk about depth shall we? Senators have 8 players with 30 or more points, and one guy at 29 points, and another at 26 points. So it's safe to say 10 guys will have 30 or more points. Les precious Habitants have 7 guys with 30 or more, and a couple guys at 23-24. What is YOUR definition of depth? I think a ton of people think Ottawa is solely a one line team because their top line scores sooo much, that it seems like no one else is scoring, when in fact they are on par to most of the league in terms of secondary scoring.

first, it's 7 with 40 pts or more, not 30...


I'll give you an example of depth : traded our #1 goalie, his replacement is doing better while being in his 1st year, and the one being #2 at the moment could also very well carry the load as he already did last year for us... fact is, we could (not saying we should) very well trade one of them next summer and still start next season with a decent #1 and a decent back up...

another example : every single game there is a full line of capable players in the stands, they might not be 1st liners but still, in most teams they would probably be playing regular shifts...

and one last : we could lose 3 D and still start a game with a full D corp. Without any call-ups that is.


was fun reading you, I mean, you're the one with the better players but the Habs/Sens are both at 87 pts after the same amount of games... if you have the better players and you have more depth, how is it possible ?

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03-15-2008, 02:22 AM
  #59
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The bigger question if you are being honest and real should be do the habs have a true #1 line, by that I mean at least just say 2 true #1 line players? The answer is resounding NO, ONE is even a stretch depending if you think Kovalev qualifies as such at this point in his career.

Do that habs have 'game breakers', I mean players who can almost single-handedly breakdown systems due to their abilities with the puck, damage they can inflict the proverbial 'puck following them around' term???

No the habs don't, MAYBE Kovalev in once a blue moon night when everything is perfect and his best game...wait is this a contract year?

A team like the habs is easy to shutdown for a team like Ottawa and some other teams out there. Systems and game plans shuts down a lot easier the so called 40-50 pts guys the habs will have @ about half a dozen this year than it is true superstar 'game breakers'.

That was what did in a stacked team like Buffalo last year in the playoffs. All their 50-60 pts guys playing some even on their 4th line could get nothing going and completely shutdown. They were essentially a deeper 2007 Habs team led by Drury, Breire, and Vanek. The problem was none of those guys are as 'special' or as hard to shut down than individual talents like Heatley, or Alfredsson, or Spezza etc. If you wanna shutdown the great players in the game, and I mean consistently and through 7 game series (not just a game or 2), you need more than just systems and coaching. Those MIGHT only contain them at best unless you are talking about a playoff choker like Yashin Hossa etc. You need matching or exceeding personnel in terms of talent or impact in the opposite end like Anaheim did in pair of hall of farmers in their prime like Neidermire, Pronger etc etc

systems and game plan and coaching can do wonders on the ordinary 50-60 and even 70 pt whatever players but not the true superstars if they come to play.


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03-15-2008, 02:27 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by 4thliner View Post
The bigger question if you are being honest and real should be do the habs have a true #1 line, by that I mean at least just say 2 true #1 line players? The answer is resounding NO, ONE is even a stretch depending if you think Kovalev qualifies as such at this point in his career.
Alex Kovalev is the 4th ranked RW in scoring in the NHL....

There are 30 ******* teams in this league....

Thats a FIRST LINER to me.....

Plekanec is alos highly ranked....

Infact Higgins, Koivu, and AKostitsyn are all in the top 30 at their positions...

Thats 5 players who could be a first liner for some teams....


PS only one is in his contract year, AKost, and thats an RFA contract to boot.... So yeah, thanks for coming out.

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03-15-2008, 02:28 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by 4thliner View Post
The bigger question if you are being honest and real should be do the habs have a true #1 line, by that I mean at least just say 2 true #1 line players? The answer is resounding NO, ONE is even a stretch depending if you think Kovalev qualifies as such at this point in his career.

Do that habs have 'game breakers', I mean players who can almost single-handedly breakdown systems due to their abilities with the puck, damage they can inflict the proverbial 'puck following them around' term???

No the habs don't, MAYBE Kovalev in once a blue moon night when everything is perfect and his best game...wait is this a contract year?

A team like the habs is easy to shutdown for a team like Ottawa and some other teams out there. Systems and game plans shuts down a lot easier the so called 40-50 pts guys the habs will have @ about half a dozen this year than it is true superstar 'game breakers'.

That was what did in a stacked team like Buffalo last year in the playoffs. All their 50-60 pts guys playing some even on their 4th line could get nothing going and completely shutdown. They were essentially a deeper 2007 Habs team led by Drury, Breire, and Vanek. The problem was none of those guys are as 'special' or as hard to shut down than individual talents like Heatley, or Alfredsson, or Spezza etc. If you wanna shutdown the great players in the game, and I mean consistently and through 7 game series (not just a game or 2), you need more than just systems and coaching. Those MIGHT only contain them at best unless you are talking about a playoff choker like Yashin Hossa etc. You need matching or exceeding personnel in terms of talent or impact in the opposite end like Anaheim did in pair of hall of farmers in their prime like Neidermire, Pronger etc etc
So, what you saying is we do have more depth, thanks for awnsering your friends for us.

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03-15-2008, 02:31 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by 4thliner View Post
That was what did in a stacked team like Buffalo last year in the playoffs. All their 50-60 pts guys playing some even on their 4th line could get nothing going and completely shutdown. They were essentially a deeper 2007 Habs team led by Drury, Breire, and Vanek. The problem was none of those guys are as 'special' or as hard to shut down than individual talents like Heatley, or Alfredsson, or Spezza etc. If you wanna shutdown the great players in the game, and I mean consistently and through 7 game series (not just a game or 2), you need more than just systems and coaching. Those MIGHT only contain them at best unless you are talking about a playoff choker like Yashin Hossa etc. You need matching or exceeding personnel in terms of talent or impact in the opposite end like Anaheim did in pair of hall of farmers in their prime like Neidermire, Pronger etc etc

systems and game plan and coaching can do wonders on the ordinary 50-60 and even 70 pt whatever players but not the true superstars if they come to play.
Also that same Buffalo team that made Ottawa their *****es in 06..... yeah, there goes that theory right out the window.

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03-15-2008, 02:31 AM
  #63
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If you wanna shutdown the great players in the game, and I mean consistently and through 7 game series (not just a game or 2), you need more than just systems and coaching.
Yeah. You need effort, focus and communication. Things that we seriously dropped the ball on last game.

BTW, if those are the keys, and Ottawa is sooo much deeper anyway, what is the excuse for having no Cup to show for it? I guess last year Ott ran into the Pronger/Nieds machine, but still.

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03-15-2008, 02:34 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Alex Kovalev is the 4th ranked RW in scoring in the NHL....

There are 30 ******* teams in this league....

Thats a FIRST LINER to me.....

Plekanec is alos highly ranked....

Infact Higgins, Koivu, and AKostitsyn are all in the top 30 at their positions...

Thats 5 players who could be a first liner for some teams....


PS only one is in his contract year, AKost, and thats an RFA contract to boot.... So yeah, thanks for coming out.
Ok so you're saying Plekanec Higgins, Koivu, and AKostitsyn are what you would term first liners in the NHL, let alone bona fide ones?? lol

Even Kovalev is in question unless it's a big contract year or something.

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03-15-2008, 02:40 AM
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Also that same Buffalo team that made Ottawa their *****es in 06..... yeah, there goes that theory right out the window.
You do realize Emery completely crapped the bed that year and didn't last year well maybe till he hit the latter stages in the anaheim series in the finals? He was by no means unbeatable last year, actualy Lendqvist and Miller where much more impressive, but he was solid and did his job. His job in Ottawa was never to steal a game, even once in a while. Just not lose them.

Heck even THIS year if Gerber or Emery crap the bed Ottawa is out early. Anything less than at least decent goaltending will spell desaster for just about any team. That is a given no matter how many great players you have.

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03-15-2008, 02:43 AM
  #66
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Ok so you're saying Plekanec Higgins, Koivu, and AKostitsyn are what you would term first liners in the NHL, let alone bona fide ones?? lol

Even Kovalev is in question unless it's a big contract year or something.
Plekanec is 31th in points in the NHL, and that includes wingers and d-men... care to tell me on wich team team it wouldnt be good enough to play 1st line C ?

and just so you know, guys like Spezza and Alfie werent that much better than A. K. in their first full year...

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03-15-2008, 02:44 AM
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Yeah. You need effort, focus and communication. Things that we seriously dropped the ball on last game.

BTW, if those are the keys, and Ottawa is sooo much deeper anyway, what is the excuse for having no Cup to show for it? I guess last year Ott ran into the Pronger/Nieds machine, but still.
I really think experience had a bit to do with it as well. It's one thing to have a franchise make the playoffs for several years in a row, but making it as far as we did last year was pretty new territory for the players, coach, and entire organization as a whole. Most of the guys came out pretty timid the first few games and that really put us on our heels the rest of the series.

You also have to consider the cup run that Anaheim made a few years ago. There were plenty of guys who lost in the finals that played Ottawa last year, things like that make a huge difference. The loss last year showed a few mistakes with Ottawa's overall strategy and Bryan Murray has been making changes and preparations this year so those things don't happen again. Hopefully things will be different this time

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03-15-2008, 02:44 AM
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Ok so you're saying Plekanec Higgins, Koivu, and AKostitsyn are what you would term first liners in the NHL, let alone bona fide ones?? lol

Even Kovalev is in question unless it's a big contract year or something.
Did you read the post....

30 teams means there are 90 bonafide first liners in the league.... Don't know what you don't understand about that...

Kovalev is not in a contract year, and he is an ELITE first line player this season.... So you are proven false right there.....

Tomas Plekanec is 18th among Centres..... yup thats a first liner...

Andrei Kostitsyn 24th.... again a first liner.... considering his near PPG pace in the past three months... if you take out the first two months of the season he would be even higher than 24th.

Koivu 26th.... so he's a first liner on a bad team.... but guess what he's on our 2nd line... so he's one of the best 2nd line centres in hockey.

Chris Higgins 26th... see Koivu.

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03-15-2008, 02:49 AM
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I really think experience had a bit to do with it as well. It's one thing to have a franchise make the playoffs for several years in a row, but making it as far as we did last year was pretty new territory for the players, coach, and entire organization as a whole. Most of the guys came out pretty timid the first few games and that really put us on our heels the rest of the series.

You also have to consider the cup run that Anaheim made a few years ago. There were plenty of guys who lost in the finals that played Ottawa last year, things like that make a huge difference. The loss last year showed a few mistakes with Ottawa's overall strategy and Bryan Murray has been making changes and preparations this year so those things don't happen again. Hopefully things will be different this time
While I agree with this, let's not forget that Ottawa had one of the best teams in the league every year for the last decade or so... and still, all they have to show for it is last year's making it to the finals...

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03-15-2008, 02:51 AM
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Plekanec is 31th in points in the NHL, and that includes wingers and d-men... care to tell me on wich team team it wouldnt be good enough to play 1st line C ?

and just so you know, guys like Spezza and Alfie werent that much better than A. K. in their first full year...
Alfredsson was ROY rookie of the year and a consistant all-star performer ever since. That is that. And Spezza was talked about as a phenom ever since he was 14 playing for the ice dogs in the OHL, let alone his 1st NHL game. He was also a lottery pick 2nd overall along with Kovalchuk in 2001. To compare him to AK is out there. AK will never be as impactfull a player let alone sign as 7+ million player at the age of 23.

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03-15-2008, 02:55 AM
  #71
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You also have to consider the cup run that Anaheim made a few years ago. There were plenty of guys who lost in the finals that played Ottawa last year, things like that make a huge difference.
True. I'll give you that. Assuming personnel doesn't change drastically for UFA reasons or what have you.

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03-15-2008, 02:56 AM
  #72
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Alfredsson was ROY rookie of the year and a consistant all-star performer ever since. That is that. And Spezza was talked about as a phenom ever since he was 14 playing for the ice dogs in the OHL, let alone his 1st NHL game. He was also a lottery pick 2nd overall along with Kovalchuk in 2001. To compare him to AK is out there. AK will never be as impactfull a player let alone sign as 7+ million player at the age of 23.
AH! I get it now, everything "below" Alfie or Spezza is not worth being on a first line...


But still, Alfie had 66 pts, AK is on pace for over 50... it's not like one had 100 and the other 20 you know...



I'm curious though, was Spezza talked about as much as Daigle ?

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03-15-2008, 02:58 AM
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You do realize Emery completely crapped the bed that year and didn't last year well maybe till he hit the latter stages in the anaheim series in the finals? He was by no means unbeatable last year, actualy Lendqvist and Miller where much more impressive, but he was solid and did his job. His job in Ottawa was never to steal a game, even once in a while. Just not lose them.
Way to rewrite history... Emery **** the bed in game one of the series vs the sabres... but lets look at games 2-5 shall we...

Your team never scored more than 2 goals in any of those games.... The vaunted superstar line that couldn't be shut down... was SHUT DOWN.
Emery gave up 2 goals or less in regulation time of all of those games (two of the losses were 3-2 OT losses).... 2 goals against should be enough to give a team with such a vaunted offence the ability to win the game.... but nope, he has to keep the Sabres to one goal before you can win a game.

Game, Set, Match......


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03-15-2008, 05:45 AM
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How long shall we keep this up huh? kkk

The tone of that series in 2006 was set in GAME 1, Emery blew that game and the team never played the same afterward and lacked serous confidence. Through round 1 and up to that game the team was scoring a ton of goals and Ray didnt crap the bed. And remember there was the Domanik Hasek shadow over the team since he was to be the starting goalie that carried Ottawa the cup.

BUT at ANY rate, Ottawa destroyed Buffalo last year and that was with Emery still giving up 3 foot rebounds as usual but making the easy saves he was suppose to make usualy.

As for your uf puff and well i guess he's suppose to keep Buffalo to 1 goals a game to win, whatever guy. I guess we'll just have to wait and see in the playoffs won't we of what your dupped 'first liners' do?

The guys I was using in comparison up in Ottawa are not only superior to them in regular season play but are playoff PROVEN in terms of production and play.

Personaly I don't think maybe outside of the inconsistant Kovalev from year to year, Montreal has any real 1st line talent on their team. That is why they were almost willing to give up and arm and a leg to get Hossa, the playoff choker but the regular season wonder. Problem is come regular season guy doesnt perform like a superstar and I believe it was one disasterous move Ganey didnt make considering what Atlanata wanted from you. Congrats. But at anyrate like I said all that matters is the playoffs. Ottawa beating habs 6-1 in the regular season don't matter, whatever you think of Plekanec AK Higgins and so forth don't matter much till they do something in the playoffs and show that they can win their team maybe a round or 2 and go from there, nothing great.

Spezza.. playoff proven say he giggles all you want
Heatley...like wise
Alfredsson...proven
Stillman...proven
Fisher...proven
Volchenko, Phillips, Commodore....these are guys who have all shown they come up big in the playoffs and outside of Alfredsson and Stillman they are all in their 20's

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03-15-2008, 06:05 AM
  #75
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How long shall we keep this up huh? kkk

The tone of that series in 2006 was set in GAME 1, Emery blew that game and the team never played the same afterward and lacked serous confidence. Through round 1 and up to that game the team was scoring a ton of goals and Ray didnt crap the bed. And remember there was the Domanik Hasek shadow over the team since he was to be the starting goalie that carried Ottawa the cup.

BUT at ANY rate, Ottawa destroyed Buffalo last year and that was with Emery still giving up 3 foot rebounds as usual but making the easy saves he was suppose to make usualy.

As for your uf puff and well i guess he's suppose to keep Buffalo to 1 goals a game to win, whatever guy. I guess we'll just have to wait and see in the playoffs won't we of what your dupped 'first liners' do?

The guys I was using in comparison up in Ottawa are not only superior to them in regular season play but are playoff PROVEN in terms of production and play.

Personaly I don't think maybe outside of the inconsistant Kovalev from year to year, Montreal has any real 1st line talent on their team. That is why they were almost willing to give up and arm and a leg to get Hossa, the playoff choker but the regular season wonder. Problem is come regular season guy doesnt perform like a superstar and I believe it was one disasterous move Ganey didnt make considering what Atlanata wanted from you. Congrats. But at anyrate like I said all that matters is the playoffs. Ottawa beating habs 6-1 in the regular season don't matter, whatever you think of Plekanec AK Higgins and so forth don't matter much till they do something in the playoffs and show that they can win their team maybe a round or 2 and go from there, nothing great.

Spezza.. playoff proven say he giggles all you want
Heatley...like wise
Alfredsson...proven
Stillman...proven
Fisher...proven
Volchenko, Phillips, Commodore....these are guys who have all shown they come up big in the playoffs and outside of Alfredsson and Stillman they are all in their 20's
what do you mean WE ?? you have a different opinion about all this than all of us here... so, since no one invited you here, how about you go back to your cave and leave us be ?

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