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Size vs. Speed (Built to beat the division)

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Old
03-16-2008, 10:19 AM
  #1
nine_inch_fang
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Size vs. Speed (Built to beat the division)

I posted this on the NP.com boards and thought I would copy it here and see what the people here think.

As usual there is always the circular arguments around here about the way this team was built in reference to size and speed. I thought I might put this out there for discussion since I don't think I have seen it posted anywhere else.

This team and every other one in our division is (being) built to beat the Wings. With the importance of divisional games we as a team have to be able to compete against them. We have done that pretty well the last couple of years and this year we are an extra OTL point above .500 against this team with 2 games left. We must pick up another game from them this year and handle the rest of the division decisively. So from where I'm sitting the way this team is built might just be the only responsible way to do it.

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03-16-2008, 11:08 AM
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I am not sure if I agree with your premise that this team and the others in the division are built specifically to beat the Wings. Thats a mighty short-sighted approach for a GM to take, especially when the ability to make the playoffs is less dependent on winning your division than it is on being competitive around the conference as a whole, including your division. I think we were built for what we thought the "new" NHL was going to require, and we were ahead of Chicago, Columbus and St Louis on that curve, and they are just now catching up.

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03-16-2008, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
I am not sure if I agree with your premise that this team and the others in the division are built specifically to beat the Wings. Thats a mighty short-sighted approach for a GM to take, especially when the ability to make the playoffs is less dependent on winning your division than it is on being competitive around the conference as a whole, including your division. I think we were built for what we thought the "new" NHL was going to require, and we were ahead of Chicago, Columbus and St Louis on that curve, and they are just now catching up.
Well, I would say you are disagreeing just to do so. This happens in every sport and it is talked about in other divisions in the NHL. As well as the differences between the Eastern and Western Conferences. So short-sighted? I think not considering the way free agency works. Do you really think that the management of this team is so dense that they can't see that the "new" NHL isn't really what they thought it would be? If they wanted to change the way the team is built they easily could but seem to be playing to divisional strengths.

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03-16-2008, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nine_inch_fang View Post
Well, I would say you are disagreeing just to do so. This happens in every sport and it is talked about in other divisions in the NHL. As well as the differences between the Eastern and Western Conferences. So short-sighted? I think not considering the way free agency works. Do you really think that the management of this team is so dense that they can't see that the "new" NHL isn't really what they thought it would be? If they wanted to change the way the team is built they easily could but seem to be playing to divisional strengths.
Unlike some posters I dont disagree just to be disagreeable. I just dont believe that when he is deciding on the parts for this team Poile is specifically building to beat detroit. He may be looking at what works so well for detroit and trying to build a similar team but I would think if he was building to BEAT detroit he would try to make us more like Anaheim, which obviously we arent.

But anyway, my comment about "short sighted" was more meant to indicate that if you concentrate your whole strategy on beating one team, that in itself is "short sighted" if that one team isnt representative of what you face playing the rest of the conference. Thus I dont think "beat detroit" is all poile is thinking..

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03-16-2008, 01:27 PM
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personally i agree with the basic thesis here... that as a team one of poile's considerations has been building a team capable of beating detroit.. it has to be, since we all look up at these guys and have been since our inception.. i think this is one of the considerations of why we have consistently chosen quickness over size, to better match with these guys.

having said that, our defensive quickness tends to give detroit's puck-moving ability more trouble than most teams do.. and is one of the major reasons i think they have such trouble with us 5 on 5 (only 2 5 on 5 goals by them in 6 games played against us now)

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03-16-2008, 03:18 PM
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Don't we play right at 40% of our games within the division this year? I believe I stated beating the division, not just one team, didn't I? We are six games over .500 against our division this year and if we hope to make the playoffs we must gain another 4-6 games against them. I would say playing our division is pretty important.

Eight of the next nine are in our division. If we make the playoffs it will be because of this.

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03-16-2008, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nine_inch_fang View Post
Don't we play right at 40% of our games within the division this year? I believe I stated beating the division, not just one team, didn't I? We are six games over .500 against our division this year and if we hope to make the playoffs we must gain another 4-6 games against them. I would say playing our division is pretty important.

Eight of the next nine are in our division. If we make the playoffs it will be because of this.
OK,we are splitting hairs and getting into semantics and it is sounding petty when I dont mean it to be... but... you said all the teams in the division are built to beat detroit, not that the preds are built to beat all the teams in the division.

So let me ask, when you say we are "built to beat" Detroit do you mean we are intending to be built in their image, only better? or that we are designed to exploit their weaknesses?

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03-16-2008, 05:46 PM
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Okay, I'm going to try this one out. Be gentle, I'm still a beginner.

In a way, I think we are built both in the likeness of Detroit and to defeat them. While the Red Wings are not the dynasty they were in the 90's, they are still consistently on top of the standings. Why wouldn't you want to build your team like them? But at the same time, there has to be some element that is different on our team that is better than the Red Wings and therefore will help in defeating them. I believe that P303 mentioned either here or on NP.com that our puck-moving defensemen give Detroit fits.

I'm not as well-versed in what exactly is different between these two teams (maybe someone might mention one or two) so I can't give specifics. It's like the Big Brother syndrome (I may have made that up). You want to be just like your big brother, but at the same time, you want to be better than them at something they excell at.

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03-16-2008, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
OK,we are splitting hairs and getting into semantics and it is sounding petty when I dont mean it to be... but... you said all the teams in the division are built to beat detroit, not that the preds are built to beat all the teams in the division.

So let me ask, when you say we are "built to beat" Detroit do you mean we are intending to be built in their image, only better? or that we are designed to exploit their weaknesses?
I see what you are saying as my original post wasn't really as clear as I thought. As there really isn't a team that is built differently in our division by building to beat the Wings we are building to beat the division.

They have been at the top of the division for so long that all of the other teams have to try to succeed against them. I don't know why one of the other teams hasn't gone out and tried to build a team like Anaheim (not as easy as it looks?) but it won't be us as we can't afford that roster. Would it work? Could you spend the time developing young talent with that kind of size without firing coach and gm for not winning? Could you even bring in enough talent through the draft to even matter?

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03-16-2008, 10:16 PM
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next on the agenda: build a team that allows us to defeat the Pacific Division.

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03-16-2008, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids View Post
next on the agenda: build a team that allows us to defeat the Pacific Division.
I thought that too but then looking at the standings I realized that we are 8-11-1 against the Pacific Division. Of course this isn't great but considering going into the season most expected us to be a bubble team holding our own in this division is palatable.

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03-17-2008, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nine_inch_fang View Post
I see what you are saying as my original post wasn't really as clear as I thought. As there really isn't a team that is built differently in our division by building to beat the Wings we are building to beat the division.

They have been at the top of the division for so long that all of the other teams have to try to succeed against them. I don't know why one of the other teams hasn't gone out and tried to build a team like Anaheim (not as easy as it looks?) but it won't be us as we can't afford that roster. Would it work? Could you spend the time developing young talent with that kind of size without firing coach and gm for not winning? Could you even bring in enough talent through the draft to even matter?

It would take years to build an "anahiem" via the draft. With unlimited funds a team could do it thru free agency in a shorter time frame but to have any continuity you'd need long term deals or a mix of younger RFAs withthe UFAs.

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03-17-2008, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nine_inch_fang View Post
Don't we play right at 40% of our games within the division this year? I believe I stated beating the division, not just one team, didn't I? We are six games over .500 against our division this year and if we hope to make the playoffs we must gain another 4-6 games against them. I would say playing our division is pretty important.

Eight of the next nine are in our division. If we make the playoffs it will be because of this.
Well the divisional games go back down to 5 per team next year so there goes that argument.

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03-17-2008, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Well the divisional games go back down to 5 per team next year so there goes that argument.
That's still 20 of your 82 games.

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03-17-2008, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
It would take years to build an "anahiem" via the draft. With unlimited funds a team could do it thru free agency in a shorter time frame but to have any continuity you'd need long term deals or a mix of younger RFAs withthe UFAs.
The Ducks built a big chunk of their offense in one draft by picking Getzlaf and Perry. You don't think we'd be a different team with two big, physical forwards that could put the puck in the net?

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03-20-2008, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
That's still 20 of your 82 games.
Yeah, which means there are 62 other ones. it completely eliminates the concept of building to beat your division.

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03-20-2008, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Yeah, which means there are 62 other ones. it completely eliminates the concept of building to beat your division.
Not really.

It doesn't mean that only your division plays that style, if 5 other teams in your conference play that style, you're up to half, then, there are those that aren't built that way but still struggle with style you play.

Really the only teams Nashville struggles to beat are the bigger physical teams like Anaheim and San Jose.

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