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Old
03-16-2008, 11:30 AM
  #101
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontrealHabitant View Post
I was reading some fan's post on multiple hockeys board and, it seem's like a huge bunch keep on < whining > about Koivu all the time, they do along with providing hilarious solutions such as retrograding Koivu to the third line and moving up Grabovsky to the 2nd line...


The Fact is...

Koivu has been stuck for YEARS with some weak players on his line or total rookies.
This is the points for players on first line 46 PTS 64 PTS 74 PTS
Look at the first Line A Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Kovalev

Right there, we don't even have a < real > first line...

let's have a look at the second line and the multiple team mates that Koivu had on it.
Koivu: 53 PTS

Ryder 27 PTS
Higgins 45 PTS
S. Kostitsyn 23 PTS
Latendresse 25 PTS

Pretty pathetic,Koivu's 53 PTS this year while playing with this bunch of 3rd/4th liners is awesome to me, not to forget he's on the second line.

Koivu is not a scorer, he's a playmaker( same as Adam Oates), how can fans expect him to reach let's say 80 + points with such n00bs on his line ? Does not even make sense.

Koivu got greats hands ( as seen in shootouts, he's a beast) but you can't expect him to do more then 60 points per season when you stick him with complete rookies.. it's just plain dumb.
I'm a huge Koivu fan and I agree some knobs on here make dumb comments on his play, but I don't think you can call the 4 wingers he's played with as knobs. You could say that when they put Dandenault or Kotsopoulos on his line...but the other 4 are ~arguably~ top 6 NHL forwards. Given the struggles of Ryder and the reduced ice time(and PP time) Koivu has been nearly as productive as last year even if the numbers don't reflect it.

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Old
03-16-2008, 11:32 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Koivu always seems to make those he plays with better...last night Tender gets a goal on Saku's line, is it just me, or does it seem like everytime Tender and Koivu play together, Saku sets him up? If Tender can pot them, Saku definitely can set him up, this could be a combo that benefits Koivu,Tender, and Ryder...giving Koivu a winger with size, and ability to score...
Their skills mesh together...Koivu is small, quick and agile and a great passer at times does not shoot enough, Tender is big and strong and has a good shot he likes to use.

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Old
03-16-2008, 11:32 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Koivu always seems to make those he plays with better...last night Tender gets a goal on Saku's line, is it just me, or does it seem like everytime Tender and Koivu play together, Saku sets him up? If Tender can pot them, Saku definitely can set him up, this could be a combo that benefits Koivu,Tender, and Ryder...giving Koivu a winger with size, and ability to score...
I would like to see

Higgins-Plekanec-Kovalev

Latendresse-Koivu-A.Kostitsyn

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Old
03-16-2008, 11:44 AM
  #104
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Koivu isn't relied on to be the teams main scorer anymore, that doesn't mean he's uselss to the team, he still provides great secondary scoring on pace for 60 points which is very respectable. More valuable to the team then the points he scores I feel is his leadership, experienced veteran players are scarce on the Habs roster, they're an extremly young team and veteran players like Koivu are important to have and will become increaslingly important as the season winds down and into the playoffs.

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Old
03-16-2008, 12:53 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
It's not you who is retarded.

Some people won't be satisfied unless their team's first line consists of
Wayne Gretzky at C
Mario Lemieux at RW
Alex Ovechkin at LW

and even then, they would complain because the line doesn't win enough faceoffs.

What a lame argument jesus christ, we have a real first liner in Kovalev, Plekanec is not so far away, almost there, Kotstitsyn is far behind though.. he will get better yes, but the fact remain that for now, most of the time when a coach oppose its best line ( first line) to our first line, we have a lot of difficulty to < compete >.. Because it's not a real first line.

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Old
03-16-2008, 12:56 PM
  #106
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He's been fine, he needs two shooters with size with him which is why he worked well with Ryder and Latendresse. I liked Grabovski's line too, I'm hoping they stay together.

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Old
03-16-2008, 01:03 PM
  #107
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Koivu is still a great player and as much as S.K. (74) has been great this year he is still learning. I think they need to give Ryder another shot with Higgins and Koivu.

Last year everyone was on Kovalev for not producing and now its Koivu. The question I have is why don't they ever play together?? When it was Zednik, Koivu and Kovalev they were awesome. It does not make sense to break up pleky from Kovalev now but it could had worked last year...

I still have faith in Koivu and I think he can be great. Remember when we lost to Findland in the last Olympics it was him and Selanne that looked unbelievable. He will be great just give some of his linemates to mature a bit.

GO HABS GO

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Old
03-16-2008, 01:04 PM
  #108
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People blame Koivu because they have no hockey knowledge, both in general and for the season in question.

Koivu's "problem" all these years has been the team's failure to acquire top players to relieve the pressure and provide primary/secondary scoring. Even if we assume Koivu is worthy of being a #1 center (he is with proper linemates), there was never any #2 center of worth either since Damphousse

So you have scoring of the two top lines relying on 1 or 2 players (Koivu & whoever is having a good year). Not a very encouraging situation.

If there's one thing you can really blame Koivu for, it's for pretty much never stepping up his game. He's rarely a dominant player, he can't turn games around on his own. Even 2nd liners should be able to do that once in a while. He misses countless chances, screws up 2 on 1's etc.... doesn't look comfortable on the ice except on the powerplay. Then then there's the stupid penalties and his nasty habit of ending up in the minus column.

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Old
03-16-2008, 01:06 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlandry77 View Post
Koivu is still a great player and as much as S.K. (74) has been great this year he is still learning. I think they need to give Ryder another shot with Higgins and Koivu.

Last year everyone was on Kovalev for not producing and now its Koivu. The question I have is why don't they ever play together?? When it was Zednik, Koivu and Kovalev they were awesome. It does not make sense to break up pleky from Kovalev now but it could had worked last year...

I still have faith in Koivu and I think he can be great. Remember when we lost to Findland in the last Olympics it was him and Selanne that looked unbelievable. He will be great just give some of his linemates to mature a bit.

GO HABS GO
Please, keep Higgins and Koivu away from each other. They've been good the past few years but their games don't mesh together right now and it seems counterproductive to have them on the same line. Having Higgins be the veteran on his line will help him.

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Old
03-16-2008, 01:08 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
I would like to see

Higgins-Plekanec-Kovalev

Latendresse-Koivu-A.Kostitsyn
Good idea to break up our top line. If the top line were ever to be switched i'd put Sergei with Plekanec and Kovalev.

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Old
03-16-2008, 01:08 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Koivu always seems to make those he plays with better...last night Tender gets a goal on Saku's line, is it just me, or does it seem like everytime Tender and Koivu play together, Saku sets him up? If Tender can pot them, Saku definitely can set him up, this could be a combo that benefits Koivu,Tender, and Ryder...giving Koivu a winger with size, and ability to score...
Did you notice the way he set up Lats ? It was off the boards behind, and GL took it perfectly as it caromed in front of him. I've seen him hit Lats a few other times on that same pass. It lets GL receive the puck with some steam, and he has the hands to gather the pass in while in stride. Just one of those nice plays you see time to time.

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03-16-2008, 01:12 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Did you notice the way he set up Lats ? It was off the boards behind, and GL took it perfectly as it caromed in front of him. I've seen him hit Lats a few other times on that same pass. It lets GL receive the puck with some steam, and he has the hands to gather the pass in while in stride. Just one of those nice plays you see time to time.
That goal also showed the ability that Latendresse has to score goals, he has a great shot and if he has someone to feed him passes then he will score goals. That is why he is more effective with a real player like Saku than a 4th liner like Smolinski.

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Old
03-16-2008, 01:12 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Did you notice the way he set up Lats ? It was off the boards behind, and GL took it perfectly as it caromed in front of him. I've seen him hit Lats a few other times on that same pass. It lets GL receive the puck with some steam, and he has the hands to gather the pass in while in stride. Just one of those nice plays you see time to time.
I too have noticed him make this exact pass to Latendresse on multiple occasions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
while I agree it is a nice move, (and I haven't said anything bad about it.) I'm just saying he does it all the time and that it has become predictable.

That move is nice, but does it work all the time? no...

All I was saying is that a player's shootouts success was not enough (meanning that, alone) to say that he was a RELIABLE hockey player...

that move isn't like a glitch at nhl09 ... lol while its a nice deke, if goalies are prepared, his rate of success will drop a bit.
You're missing the point. Even if it is predictable it is very hard to stop. It isn't fullproof but if you actually understood it you'd see what I mean. He has 3 spots he can put it depending on how the goalie reacts. It's a very tough move to stop and many players do it on shootouts because it WORKS.

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Last edited by Beakermania*: 03-16-2008 at 08:44 PM.
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Old
03-16-2008, 01:15 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by HallyHabsFan21 View Post
That goal also showed the ability that Latendresse has to score goals, he has a great shot and if he has someone to feed him passes then he will score goals. That is why he is more effective with a real player like Saku than a 4th liner like Smolinski.
I've also been critical of Lats play in his own zone, but he's starting to win more battles and he seems to have a knack for hitting whatever forward is breaking in stride. That's a good sign, because my fear of the current line is that they'd get hemmed in their zone .

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Old
03-16-2008, 01:16 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontrealHabitant View Post
I was reading some fan's post on multiple hockeys board and, it seem's like a huge bunch keep on < whining > about Koivu all the time, they do along with providing hilarious solutions such as retrograding Koivu to the third line and moving up Grabovsky to the 2nd line...


The Fact is...

Koivu has been stuck for YEARS with some weak players on his line or total rookies.
This is the points for players on first line 46 PTS 64 PTS 74 PTS
Look at the first Line A Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Kovalev

Right there, we don't even have a < real > first line...

let's have a look at the second line and the multiple team mates that Koivu had on it.
Koivu: 53 PTS

Ryder 27 PTS
Higgins 45 PTS
S. Kostitsyn 23 PTS
Latendresse 25 PTS

Pretty pathetic,Koivu's 53 PTS this year while playing with this bunch of 3rd/4th liners is awesome to me, not to forget he's on the second line.

Koivu is not a scorer, he's a playmaker( same as Adam Oates), how can fans expect him to reach let's say 80 + points with such n00bs on his line ? Does not even make sense.

Koivu got greats hands ( as seen in shootouts, he's a beast) but you can't expect him to do more then 60 points per season when you stick him with complete rookies.. it's just plain dumb.
People want to dump all over Koivu? Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

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Old
03-16-2008, 01:18 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by KostitsyntheBagBaby View Post
People want to dump all over Koivu? Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Ya think this has been played out ? What's next a Rib..., no way, I'm not saying it.

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Old
03-16-2008, 01:26 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Did you notice the way he set up Lats ? It was off the boards behind, and GL took it perfectly as it caromed in front of him. I've seen him hit Lats a few other times on that same pass. It lets GL receive the puck with some steam, and he has the hands to gather the pass in while in stride. Just one of those nice plays you see time to time.
but it was just Koivu making a poor pass behind Lats

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Old
03-16-2008, 01:29 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by ari1160 View Post
so if saku is a 3rd liner who is our second line center?
if all the wingers i mentionned are on the 3rd and 4th, who are our 2nd line wingers?



I'm not saying (and I never said ) he shouldn't play on the 2nd line... but saying he only plays with a bunch of 3rd or 4rth liners to explain his ordinary year is just being retarded.

higgins, ryder, lats ,s.kos ... are not the only ones responsible for little saku's ordinary year.

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03-16-2008, 01:34 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
As of tonight, Saku Koivu is 26th in scoring centres.

Last year, Saku finished the year 20th in scoring centres.

You're disappointed with a 6 place drop?
Go look at his stats and tell me without laughing that its not his worst season over the last 10 years. If your happy with it then good for you but im definatly not...

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...pid%5B%5D=2771

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03-16-2008, 01:38 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by DrMailloux View Post
Go look at his stats and tell me without laughing that its not his worst season over the last 10 years. If your happy with it then good for you but im definatly not...

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...pid%5B%5D=2771
Look at the teams standings, that's all that matters.

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03-16-2008, 01:42 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
You're missing the point. Even if it is predictable it is very hard to stop. It isn't fullproof but if you actually understood it you'd see what I mean. He has 3 spots he can put it depending on how the goalie reacts. It's a very tough move to stop and many players do it on shootouts because it WORKS.
you're the one missing the point my friend... but keep on thinking others don't know **** about the game... my argument isn't about the fact that koivu's move was great or not... but you can go on and say what you want.


Until you find yourself in front of me with you skates, a puck, and a hockey stick ... I suggest you stop being a *** and say that you know the specifics of the game better than anyone...

you talk too much about how others '' don't know , or don't actually understand'' the game... who do you think you are? because you have 10 000 posts or so does that make you a hockey insider, or a better hockey player?

you're the one off topic anyways... why do I care.


Last edited by THE HOFF: 03-16-2008 at 01:49 PM.
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Old
03-16-2008, 01:44 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by DrMailloux View Post
Go look at his stats and tell me without laughing that its not his worst season over the last 10 years. If your happy with it then good for you but im definatly not...

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...pid%5B%5D=2771
I was on the roof of my parent's house yesterday with 2 - 12 year olds, shovelling. At a point, when I wasn't catching my breath easily, I let up and let the kids do most of the work. You shouldn't be frustrated over your lack of ability to reverse time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13 View Post
but it was just Koivu making a poor pass behind Lats
That's the beauty ehh, you can make anything mean anything, but I'm confident you know what you're seeing.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 03-16-2008 at 08:47 PM.
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Old
03-16-2008, 01:46 PM
  #123
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So people knocked him for putting up points last year because he had an abysmal +/- as the first line center.

Now he puts up his average point total for his career as a second line center but with a much better +/- and people still crap on it.

Please, people tells us what more you want out of an aging second line center. He plays the PP, PK, plays late in the game, and playing for the the top team in the North Eastern division and a top 3 team in the conference. He hasn't complained once this year about a reduced role and even admitted Pleks is now the number one center.

I swear some of you rather have Superstar putting up a 100 points on the worst team in the league.

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Old
03-16-2008, 01:46 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
you're the one missing the point my friend... but keep on thinking others don't know **** about the game... my argument isn't about the fact that koivu's move was great or not... but you can go on and say what you want.


Until you find yourself in front of me with you skates, a puck, and a hockey stick ... I suggest you stop being a *** and say that you know the specifics of the game better than anyone...

you talk too much about dumb people and '' don't know , or don't actually understand'' the game... who do you think you are? because you have 10 000 posts or so does that make you a hockey insider, or a better hockey player?

you're the one off topic anyways... why do I care.
What does my post count have to do with anything? Why even bring that up?

You said it was a predictable move. That is what I am harping about. It is anything but predictable, even if you know exactly what he's going to do.

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03-16-2008, 01:49 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
What does my post count have to do with anything? Why even bring that up?

You said it was a predictable move. That is what I am harping about. It is anything but predictable, even if you know exactly what he's going to do.
don't bother bringing up the shootout (maybe it wasn't even you, too lazy to go back) but from just reading through GDT of shootout games, there is at least 3 posters in each one questioning why Koivu is used despite being one of, if not Montreal's best at it.

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