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Joe Sakic - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM (Part II)

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Old
04-20-2017, 09:05 AM
  #276
Cousin Eddie
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Still hoping for some type of big splash news like both Lombardi AND Sutter come in. Sakic "promoted" to president.

I know a lot of people don't care for Lombardi but he turned a bottom team in the NHL into a multiple cup winner. A very young team in a similar situation as the Avs are in now. I'm sure he has learned from his mistakes as well. I highly doubt he would come in here and sign Gaborik's and Brown's to 8 year extensions after seeing what happens to guys like that. Lombardi has been around the game long enough to see it change. He knows what hockey used to be, he knows what it is now and he knows what it's becoming. I'd trust him.

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04-20-2017, 10:32 AM
  #277
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The Habs reportedly had it down to Marc Bergevin and Julien BriseBois for their then-vacant GM position. I'm betting Montreal ownership is regretting their decision. If not, they will.

Then again...for years Steve Tambellini was a hotshot front office candidate, and we all know how that turned out.

Here's a question, and please know I'm not one to advocate for heads to roll just for the sake of it: When is the last time you recall a sports franchise finishing dead last by a pretty sizable margin and no one, not a single, solitary soul, getting fired afterwards?
I honestly can't think of one. But I also can't think of another professional North American sports team with the lack of accountability that this organization has. We don't even get an end of the year press conference where management has to answer for the season, we just get a hallway interview where Sakic basically says "we sucked, deal with it. Younger and faster."

Oh, and the Sabres just cleaned house.

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04-20-2017, 11:43 AM
  #278
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It is pretty surprising that not one staff change has occurred. Not even firing Tim Army? I expected Sakic to be back after the comments throughout the year from him and knowing the Kroenke's, but I thought we'd at least see one change occur to display that clearly there was / is some accountability up top for what just happened. This was a historically bad season....and we haven't even had a damn press conference or any interview with the media to talk about it. I do find the lack of communication to be pretty disappointing, even if a lot of the comments they would make go without saying. Wonder how badly season ticket renewals are. Not doing a thing and not saying a thing after what everyone just watched can't exactly be instilling confidence.
I still maintain that THE ONLY way that happens is if Josh Kroenke has been on board with this season being a lost one, all along.

Otherwise, Sakic and the coaching staff would have all been canned by now, imo.

As far as Tim Army is concerned, I don't think it's a slam-dunk that he's going to be back. I would think that if they are going to replace him, it won't be until after the playoffs as people are being let go here and there unless a candidate emerges from the junior ranks.

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04-20-2017, 11:48 AM
  #279
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I still maintain that THE ONLY way that happens is if Josh Kroenke has been on board with this season being a lost one, all along.

Otherwise, Sakic and the coaching staff would have all been canned by now, imo.

As far as Tim Army is concerned, I don't think it's a slam-dunk that he's going to be back. I would think that if they are going to replace him, it won't be until after the playoffs as people are being let go here and there unless a candidate emerges from the junior ranks.
Given the talks before the season started, I doubt it. Especially considering Sakic's quote that he'll quit if they miss playoffs this year.

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04-20-2017, 11:52 AM
  #280
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I still maintain that THE ONLY way that happens is if Josh Kroenke has been on board with this season being a lost one, all along.

Otherwise, Sakic and the coaching staff would have all been canned by now, imo.

As far as Tim Army is concerned, I don't think it's a slam-dunk that he's going to be back. I would think that if they are going to replace him, it won't be until after the playoffs as people are being let go here and there unless a candidate emerges from the junior ranks.
I just think the Kroenke's don't actually care. They'll care when they probably see next years profits - and then their solution will be to slash the budget, which means we'll get years more of haphazard spending rather than genuine accountability. That's the way these things go. And Army should have been fired already even just to send a message. I'll also repeat again that I find the lack of communication from anyone in management pretty gutless. Sakic built this club, Bednar is his boy. He could have given the fans an open talk apologizing for the season, telling them where things are at and what their plans are. Most of it would just be rhetorical, but it still should have been done. Other GMs like Francis already did that and outlined what their off-season goals are. Instead, our management is hiding.

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04-20-2017, 12:09 PM
  #281
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It's really starting to grind on me that not one person will pay for this terrible season and the lead up to it over the past few seasons. Sakic and the FO are pretending this was just an unlucky season not this was a long time coming along with being the worst season in about two decades. This is going to irk me all summer and through the next season where the team under achieves because the FO/Owner are five years behind the rest of the league in every department. I'm starting to believe there won't be a replacement for Alliare or even JIF.

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04-20-2017, 01:04 PM
  #282
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I don't know where to post this thought so I'll let it fly here...

I guess what I don't understand about this season is wasn't it known that it was supposed to be a "developmental" season this year and that is why Roy left? If that is so then who were we supposedly developing.. Zadorov and Rantanen?? I mean if they were expecting a down year why would they let bad veterans play and not make room for some kids.

I might be way off base or maybe it's just cause I am just getting annoyed watching good hockey knowing that were so far away.

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04-20-2017, 01:07 PM
  #283
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Roy left because Sakic and him had a disagreement about how to build the team and what should be done with the core.

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04-20-2017, 01:08 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Flow View Post
I don't know where to post this thought so I'll let it fly here...

I guess what I don't understand about this season is wasn't it known that it was supposed to be a "developmental" season this year and that is why Roy left? If that is so then who were we supposedly developing.. Zadorov and Rantanen?? I mean if they were expecting a down year why would they let bad veterans play and not make room for some kids.

I might be way off base or maybe it's just cause I am just getting annoyed watching good hockey knowing that were so far away.
I was fully on board with it being a developmental year, I supported that, and Zadorov and Rantanen did get their shot and did do well. They also did give Compher, Jost, Lindholm, and Greer a taste of the NHL. However, where there needs to be accountability is that whatever intentions they had of this being a developmental year did not come to fruition. It's not a developmental year when 15 guys actively regress and the club is historically bad. They should have finished around 10th again - on the bubble but looking out, yet building a solid supporting foundation for the club - but instead they had a season that an intentionally tanking team could only dream about. That's the big issue with what happened this year, in my opinion. They completely lost control of whatever development was supposed to be going on.

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04-20-2017, 01:10 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flow View Post
I don't know where to post this thought so I'll let it fly here...

I guess what I don't understand about this season is wasn't it known that it was supposed to be a "developmental" season this year and that is why Roy left? If that is so then who were we supposedly developing.. Zadorov and Rantanen?? I mean if they were expecting a down year why would they let bad veterans play and not make room for some kids.

I might be way off base or maybe it's just cause I am just getting annoyed watching good hockey knowing that were so far away.
No, that was something that supposedly was said by a French reporter on RDS and for some reason it grew to be this "it was known" fact, probably because fans want to believe it's true because it would show some semblance of foresight and awareness. And exactly, if it was a punt it away year then they still half assed it. Nobody will know what the plan was, if there was one. I believe that Sakic saw it wasn't a Cup contender and maybe decided on pulling things back a bit but still believed in the core and figured surrounding them with veteran leadership that it would be enough to stay in the playoff bubble, which doesn't exactly take much anyway.

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04-20-2017, 02:37 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
Still hoping for some type of big splash news like both Lombardi AND Sutter come in. Sakic "promoted" to president.

I know a lot of people don't care for Lombardi but he turned a bottom team in the NHL into a multiple cup winner. A very young team in a similar situation as the Avs are in now. I'm sure he has learned from his mistakes as well. I highly doubt he would come in here and sign Gaborik's and Brown's to 8 year extensions after seeing what happens to guys like that. Lombardi has been around the game long enough to see it change. He knows what hockey used to be, he knows what it is now and he knows what it's becoming. I'd trust him.
This is what I'd like too

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04-20-2017, 02:54 PM
  #287
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Me, too.

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04-20-2017, 06:36 PM
  #288
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What bothers me about Lombardi is that way the Kings were built under him. Yes, they won two cups, but trying to build a team that way is a very dangerous thing, and they also had help having a generational defenseman and an elite goalie. Unless Lombardi could come here and luck into both of those again, I don't think his model would work as well. At the very least, it would require dumping nearly every core piece and starting a true five year ground-up rebuild to acquire those kinds of core players, while the rest of the league builds towards speed and mobility. I think the LA model is a bit of a dinosaur and I'm not so sure I want to see it implemented here.

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04-20-2017, 06:50 PM
  #289
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What bothers me about Lombardi is that way the Kings were built under him. Yes, they won two cups, but trying to build a team that way is a very dangerous thing, and they also had help having a generational defenseman and an elite goalie. Unless Lombardi could come here and luck into both of those again, I don't think his model would work as well. At the very least, it would require dumping nearly every core piece and starting a true five year ground-up rebuild to acquire those kinds of core players, while the rest of the league builds towards speed and mobility. I think the LA model is a bit of a dinosaur and I'm not so sure I want to see it implemented here.
The question is...

Did Lombardi see what he had with Kopitar and build the team correctly to augment his star players? It sure looks like it...

Or was it all really just luck? Because they did a pretty good job of filling in the depth around their core, and we as Avs fans should know how important that is.

They've also drafted pretty well in the depth rounds, and if you are going to trade late first round picks, then you need to hit on some of your 2nd and 3rd rounders.

Take a look at their draft history http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00006664.html

There is quite a few names in those mid rounds that have seen time in the NHL.

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04-20-2017, 06:53 PM
  #290
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It's really starting to grind on me that not one person will pay for this terrible season and the lead up to it over the past few seasons. Sakic and the FO are pretending this was just an unlucky season not this was a long time coming along with being the worst season in about two decades. This is going to irk me all summer and through the next season where the team under achieves because the FO/Owner are five years behind the rest of the league in every department. I'm starting to believe there won't be a replacement for Alliare or even JIF.
Duchene will. Landeskog might. That is why I want to forget about this stupid organization and never look back. Don't agree with anything they do anymore. What's the point.

AARARRGGGGGGG.

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04-20-2017, 08:12 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
The question is...

Did Lombardi see what he had with Kopitar and build the team correctly to augment his star players? It sure looks like it...

Or was it all really just luck? Because they did a pretty good job of filling in the depth around their core, and we as Avs fans should know how important that is.

They've also drafted pretty well in the depth rounds, and if you are going to trade late first round picks, then you need to hit on some of your 2nd and 3rd rounders.

Take a look at their draft history http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00006664.html

There is quite a few names in those mid rounds that have seen time in the NHL.
If only we could find a few more Paul Stastny's, huh. Drafted 44th overall. Absolute gold.

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04-20-2017, 11:54 PM
  #292
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No one has ever fired themselves for incompetence. Our front office has no incentive to change.

As long as the Kroenkes don't care, we'll be the laughingstock of the league.

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04-21-2017, 06:26 AM
  #293
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No, that was something that supposedly was said by a French reporter on RDS and for some reason it grew to be this "it was known" fact, probably because fans want to believe it's true because it would show some semblance of foresight and awareness. And exactly, if it was a punt it away year then they still half assed it. Nobody will know what the plan was, if there was one. I believe that Sakic saw it wasn't a Cup contender and maybe decided on pulling things back a bit but still believed in the core and figured surrounding them with veteran leadership that it would be enough to stay in the playoff bubble, which doesn't exactly take much anyway.
It WAS said by a french reporter and then brought here by Frenchy and I believe him because neither he nor the reporter have anything to gain by making it up. The team was around .500 at the time as well, it's not like it was said when we were 10 points behind 29th.

I love how THAT is questioned and scoffed at but someone comes here claiming they have inside sources and that this player and that player were offered for this player and it was turned down and everyone goes with it and believes it as 100% true.

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04-21-2017, 06:44 AM
  #294
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Still hoping for some type of big splash news like both Lombardi AND Sutter come in. Sakic "promoted" to president.

I know a lot of people don't care for Lombardi but he turned a bottom team in the NHL into a multiple cup winner. A very young team in a similar situation as the Avs are in now. I'm sure he has learned from his mistakes as well. I highly doubt he would come in here and sign Gaborik's and Brown's to 8 year extensions after seeing what happens to guys like that. Lombardi has been around the game long enough to see it change. He knows what hockey used to be, he knows what it is now and he knows what it's becoming. I'd trust him.
Don't set yourself up for disappointment.

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04-21-2017, 10:29 AM
  #295
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Hearing Pegula's comments.. Sure wish we had ownership like that.

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04-21-2017, 10:44 AM
  #296
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It WAS said by a french reporter and then brought here by Frenchy and I believe him because neither he nor the reporter have anything to gain by making it up. The team was around .500 at the time as well, it's not like it was said when we were 10 points behind 29th.

I love how THAT is questioned and scoffed at but someone comes here claiming they have inside sources and that this player and that player were offered for this player and it was turned down and everyone goes with it and believes it as 100% true.
That's not the point. I'm not doubting Frenchy or RDS but that's a little different than the org letting everyone know what their plan is upfront. So if one person hadn't heard this comment in French we would have all missed out on their master plan? It's a little tough to glean full context from a comment that nobody has heard either. It was after the disaster in Montreal, we were not at .500 then.

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04-21-2017, 11:53 AM
  #297
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Originally Posted by tigervixxxen View Post
That's not the point. I'm not doubting Frenchy or RDS but that's a little different than the org letting everyone know what their plan is upfront. So if one person hadn't heard this comment in French we would have all missed out on their master plan? It's a little tough to glean full context from a comment that nobody has heard either. It was after the disaster in Montreal, we were not at .500 then.
I said we were close to .500...I just looked it up, we were 9W 15L before that 10-1 loss...behind the eight-ball for sure but not exactly in the 'we are completely ****ed category either'. (I think Calgary had an even worse start but still managed to turn their season around and make the playoffs)

As far as your overall point, I'm not sure I get what that is. The organization would never come out and publicly state that they want to finish near the bottom to get a high draft pick.

It comes down to this, do you really believe that the Avs signed :

- Cast-off Fedor Tyutin
- Cast-off Patrick Weircioch
- Joe Colborne for 2 yrs instead of giving Boeker a 4yr term
- Rene Bourque on a PTO

because they thought those guys were going to make them us a better team?

Or do you think they signed those guys as stop-gaps because they knew it was going to be a tough year regardless of what they did???

Some people seem to be choosing to believe that Joe Sakic knows LESS about hockey than 95% of the fans on this forum. I personally don't believe that...not even close. I think Sakic stopped Roy in his tracks with his "try to win at all costs with an already flawed roster" and decided that if they were going to be AT BEST a playoff bubble team that it might as well be a lost season and might as well get a top pick + make the necessary moves to get this team on the right track.

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04-21-2017, 12:12 PM
  #298
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I said we were close to .500...I just looked it up, we were 9W 15L before that 10-1 loss...behind the eight-ball for sure but not exactly in the 'we are completely ****ed category either'. (I think Calgary had an even worse start but still managed to turn their season around and make the playoffs)

As far as your overall point, I'm not sure I get what that is. The organization would never come out and publicly state that they want to finish near the bottom to get a high draft pick.

It comes down to this, do you really believe that the Avs signed :

- Cast-off Fedor Tyutin
- Cast-off Patrick Weircioch
- Joe Colborne for 2 yrs instead of giving Boeker a 4yr term
- Rene Bourque on a PTO

because they thought those guys were going to make them us a better team?

Or do you think they signed those guys as stop-gaps because they knew it was going to be a tough year regardless of what they did???

Some people seem to be choosing to believe that Joe Sakic knows LESS about hockey than 95% of the fans on this forum. I personally don't believe that...not even close. I think Sakic stopped Roy in his tracks with his "try to win at all costs with an already flawed roster" and decided that if they were going to be AT BEST a playoff bubble team that it might as well be a lost season and might as well get a top pick + make the necessary moves to get this team on the right track.
What necessary moves has he made to get this team on the right track?

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04-21-2017, 12:14 PM
  #299
henchman24
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What necessary moves has he made to get this team on the right track?
Picked up Barbario on waivers.

The win at all costs stigma that is associated with Roy, is incorrect though. Roy wanted aggressive, Sakic didn't. Aggressive does not equal win at all costs.

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04-21-2017, 01:23 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by Gigantor The Goalie View Post
It's really starting to grind on me that not one person will pay for this terrible season and the lead up to it over the past few seasons. Sakic and the FO are pretending this was just an unlucky season not this was a long time coming along with being the worst season in about two decades. This is going to irk me all summer and through the next season where the team under achieves because the FO/Owner are five years behind the rest of the league in every department. I'm starting to believe there won't be a replacement for Alliare or even JIF.
This is bothering me to no end. I'm not even so mad that Bednar is still around although I do believe the whole Bednar needs a fair chance rhetoric is such a cop out from Joe. The guy had a full training camp and the team went undefeated in pre season. Don't sit there and tell me he was ill prepared. Bednar lost that room a few weeks into his tenure and bringing him back next year will not help anything. What happens if the Avs start off 1-10 or something? Do you continue the clown show? Will Joe finally fire him? Now guess what happens. The new guy is ill prepared because now hes gotta reverse everything Bednar did. And on and on it goes. The fact that Tim ****in Army has survived regime change after regime change is also bothersome. How can someone suck this much at their job and still be employed? How do you continue letting this guy run the PP year after year and the results are always ******?

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