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2017 Draft Discussion - Part I

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Old
04-20-2017, 07:13 AM
  #701
lanky
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Heiskanen is now clearly the top D available in my eyes. I think he should go between 3-7, which is where we'll be picking. He's not flashy but he's effective. Similar to Juolevi in that respect but he's much quicker. I wouldn't touch any other D in the top ten. My second D would probably be Liljegren.

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04-20-2017, 07:32 AM
  #702
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I hope we'll take Vesalainen under MIN 1St.

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04-20-2017, 08:27 AM
  #703
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He looks good for sure. Another LW though?

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Old
04-20-2017, 08:41 AM
  #704
rt
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I've seen very little this season. TPG, the whole WJC, one playoff game, and one U18, so far. I'll watch the MemCup when it's on, but other than that, I've only seen highlights and shift-by-shifts. I've tried to watch everything on YouTube, but it's not much. I'm pretty darned ill-informed when it comes to this draft.

It's a crazy draft. Everyone is all over the place. The D at the top looks weak and I really don't want anything to do with any LHS wingers in the first 100 picks. So my rough top ten, based on very little, and with heavy positional-handedness bias looks something like this right now:

1. Hischier
2. Patrick
3. Necas
4. Vilardi
5. Glass
6. Mittelstadt
7. Suzuki
8. Tippett
9. Pettersson
10. Thomas

...and will probably be totally different in a month.

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Old
04-20-2017, 08:49 AM
  #705
Jakey53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lanky View Post
He looks good for sure. Another LW though?
Who cares. Just because we are strong at LW now, may not be the case when this player is NHL ready. Select the best player available regardless of position. My opinion of course.

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04-20-2017, 08:54 AM
  #706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonche View Post
I hope we'll take Vesalainen under MIN 1St.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lanky View Post
He looks good for sure. Another LW though?
LHS, but it was my understanding that he plays on RW more often...

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04-20-2017, 08:57 AM
  #707
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Who cares. Just because we are strong at LW now, may not be the case when this player is NHL ready. Select the best player available regardless of position. My opinion of course.
Vesalainen rhs and i think he can play on right side.

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04-20-2017, 08:59 AM
  #708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonche View Post
Vesalainen rhs and i think he can play on right side.
According to Elite Prospects Vesalainen is a LH shot.

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04-20-2017, 09:41 AM
  #709
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Google images is the authority.

He's a LHS. And he's a winger. If he's there at pick 101 I'd grab him. Haha. Or if we trade Keller or Perlini elsewhere.

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04-20-2017, 09:49 AM
  #710
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Originally Posted by Jakey53 View Post
Who cares. Just because we are strong at LW now, may not be the case when this player is NHL ready. Select the best player available regardless of position. My opinion of course.
Very hard to fit all of Keller, Domi, Perlini, Crouse, Reider, Duclair, and Martinook into four LW spots. Yes, some of these guys can play offwing but that doesn't mitigate the fact that RH shots command a premium that we should pay attention to if all other things are (roughly) equal.

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04-20-2017, 11:17 AM
  #711
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Owen Tippett is a righty. Tolvanen is a lefty but plays the right side almost exclusively (not unlike Ovechkin). I see Vilardi as a wing at the pro level, but he's a righty, too. Kole Lind and Nick Suzuki should both be good right wings in the pros. That's it for right wings in my top 25. After that, I've still got Klim Kostin (a lefthanded RW), Ivan Lodnia and Joni Ikonen rated as first rounders. Kailer Yamamoto and Nick Henry are close.

Definitely not worth putting much of a premium on, but it's a useful tiebreaker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lanky View Post
Heiskanen is now clearly the top D available in my eyes. I think he should go between 3-7, which is where we'll be picking. He's not flashy but he's effective. Similar to Juolevi in that respect but he's much quicker. I wouldn't touch any other D in the top ten. My second D would probably be Liljegren.
More dynamic than Juolevi, too. Still not a flashy player but very efficient in transition with a terrific point shot. Don't think he'll QB a top powerplay unit but he's a useful #2 on the point. I've likened him to Hampus Lindholm for his mobility and versatility, but there's a little bit of Alex Goligoski in his game too. I'm very impressed by his willingness and ability to go up against bigger, stronger forwards.

He's the only defenseman in my top 10, too, though I have Brannstrom 11th. Liljegren (who is 16th for me) is not doing himself any favors at the U18s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonche View Post
I hope we'll take Vesalainen under MIN 1St.
I've got him 14th. Terrific prospect with a wide range of skills. He's a little raw and will need some time to develop, but if a team is patient with him, he's got Loui Eriksson-ish potential.

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04-20-2017, 11:17 AM
  #712
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Originally Posted by IPreferPi View Post
Very hard to fit all of Keller, Domi, Perlini, Crouse, Reider, Duclair, and Martinook into four LW spots. Yes, some of these guys can play offwing but that doesn't mitigate the fact that RH shots command a premium that we should pay attention to if all other things are (roughly) equal.
I pick the BPA period. There are trades, injuries that can occur etc. Perlini, Crouse and Duclair are still an unknown at this time, and one or more could still bust or not live up to potential.

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04-20-2017, 11:22 AM
  #713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakey53 View Post
I pick the BPA period. There are trades, injuries that can occur etc. Perlini, Crouse and Duclair are still an unknown at this time, and one or more could still bust or not live up to potential.
Great. If I perceive two players roughly have the same skill level and/or upside, I'll take the right shot as a tiebreaker. That's all I'm saying.

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04-20-2017, 11:44 AM
  #714
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Originally Posted by IPreferPi View Post
Great. If I perceive two players roughly have the same skill level and/or upside, I'll take the right shot as a tiebreaker. That's all I'm saying.
I agree.

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Old
04-20-2017, 03:01 PM
  #715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IPreferPi View Post
Very hard to fit all of Keller, Domi, Perlini, Crouse, Reider, Duclair, and Martinook into four LW spots. Yes, some of these guys can play offwing but that doesn't mitigate the fact that RH shots command a premium that we should pay attention to if all other things are (roughly) equal.
Possibly a dumb question, but if we had to get rid of one player with a LHS, who would it be?

I could see picks and players trading hands that would come with us giving up Duclair, Rieder, or Martinook. And the sole reason for that is b/c Domi, Perlini, Keller, and Crouse all appear to be better players in the long term than those 3.

Would suck to give up Martinook or Rieder, but that would be one of those ideal scenarios for us and Dallas to talk trade.

DAL 1st (assume #8 OA) and Nichushkin

for

AZ 1st (assume #5 OA), Martinook, and 2018 conditional 5th round pick (becomes a 4th if Nichushkin skates in 60+ games for AZ)

???

Out of curiousity, how low has Nichushkin's trade value fallen?

Edit: Meh, Nichushkin is a RW, but LHS. And may not be worth the risk.

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04-20-2017, 03:19 PM
  #716
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Perhaps "best player available" would be better expressed as "most valuable prospect" available. Positional need should not really factor into that equation, at least not early on and definitely not with the expectation that the player you're drafting will be contributing in the near future. Neither should traits like size or physicality, in terms of current need. If you're team philosophy is built around patience and cycling, then by all means target those sorts of attributes, but don't just draft someone fast because you're team is slow (at least not at the expense of other abilities).

Including handedness as a small part of the calculation makes sense, however, to the extent it affects trade value. There is great enough scarcity of right-handed players that a righty has more trade value than a lefty, all else being equal. Part of why you draft purely for value is because, theoretically, if the player turns out well but isn't a perfect fit for your lineup, he can be traded for someone of comparable value who does fit, as opposed to drafting someone of lesser value for the same goal. It didn't make sense from a positional need perspective for Nashville to take Seth Jones when they had Suter and Weber on they're top pairing, but when he turned out to be redundant (after Suter left but Josi, Ekholm and Ellis emerged as contributors), they moved him for Ryan Johansen. I'd take Johansen over any player, center or otherwise, the Predators could have taken at that slot.

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04-20-2017, 05:07 PM
  #717
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Quote:
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Vesalainen rhs and i think he can play on right side.
Vesalainen's position is LW / RW.

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04-20-2017, 05:12 PM
  #718
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Too bad Jesse Ylonen ( son of Juha Ylonen who played Coyotes in his NHL career) is late birthday ( born in October) and 2018 eligible.
He's 1999 born RW and he's played good tournament in these U18's. He would have been 2nd or 3rd round selection for Coyotes.

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Old
04-21-2017, 02:07 AM
  #719
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Hawks lost. Does that help the MIN pick?

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04-21-2017, 06:42 AM
  #720
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Originally Posted by FinnHockeyFan View Post
Too bad Jesse Ylonen ( son of Juha Ylonen who played Coyotes in his NHL career) is late birthday ( born in October) and 2018 eligible.
He's 1999 born RW and he's played good tournament in these U18's. He would have been 2nd or 3rd round selection for Coyotes.
Oh man I remember Ylonen, great name.

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04-21-2017, 06:54 AM
  #721
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Hawks lost. Does that help the MIN pick?
Yep. One of NAS/STL will make it to round 3 (assuming STL wins round 1). The pick would then move from 25 to 24. If NYR and OTT both win round 1 then we'll be guaranteed to move up another spot to 23.

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04-21-2017, 08:31 AM
  #722
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Yep. One of NAS/STL will make it to round 3 (assuming STL wins round 1). The pick would then move from 25 to 24. If NYR and OTT both win round 1 then we'll be guaranteed to move up another spot to 23.
Go blues. Go rags. Go sens.

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04-21-2017, 11:27 AM
  #723
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Oh man I remember Ylonen, great name.
I carpooled in the late 90s with a guy who came to Arizona from Newfoundland, of all places, who always used to called him "Yahoo". I can't get that out of my head. (He also called then-GM Bobby Smith "the man with the cat on his head")

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04-21-2017, 12:30 PM
  #724
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We were decent then because we had Finns. Now, nothing.

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04-21-2017, 02:01 PM
  #725
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We were decent then because we had Finns. Now, nothing.
Well, at least we evolved!

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