HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

Roster Building Thread DCLXVIII:

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-21-2017, 08:42 AM
  #76
Mittelstadt Nemesis
...One
 
Mittelstadt Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 21,152
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Yeah - unless Shattenkirk is willing to take a significant discount to play here then he's not signing here. He'd be leaving money and years on the table and there's nothing to indicate Gorton & Co. want to pay that price.

Sign Smith. Sign the Russian kid. Do something with Staal. Move Klein. G on 3rd pair. Move Hayes for a D prospect.

The more that time goes on the less I want this guy here.
I am frustrated with Hayes as well but if we're moving a 6'5" 24 year old center who just nearly hit 50 points it better be one hell of a defensive prospect. Talking Honka-esque.

And that doesn't solve the issue of who fills in at center. Maybe Lindberg could take the third line role but you would usually prefer not to have that be the first option come training camp.

I suspect something with Staal/Girardi will happen this summer. Klein is a goner, no way he is back after being the 7th option in the postseason. I bet a team like Toronto or Edmonton would give some picks for him.

__________________
Proud Eternalist since... ever.
Mittelstadt Nemesis is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 09:27 AM
  #77
Thirty One
k.
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,088
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
I assume he would be out there too, does 5v4 or 4v5 count towards +/- ? I guess short handers against, all the same close enough.

That just seems kind of odd, ~-14 in empty nets, not sure I have ever thought that was possible.

Thanks for the info, and now I know more and how to use corsica a little.
4v5 GF and 5v4 GA count towards +/- only. Shattenkirk is not really a minus on the PP, I assure you

14 EN GA over two seasons doesn't seem outrageous. Yandle had 9 last season by mid-March when I pulled this data:


Thirty One is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 09:45 AM
  #78
Rangers in 7
Registered User
 
Rangers in 7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,038
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
I am frustrated with Hayes as well but if we're moving a 6'5" 24 year old center who just nearly hit 50 points it better be one hell of a defensive prospect. Talking Honka-esque.

And that doesn't solve the issue of who fills in at center. Maybe Lindberg could take the third line role but you would usually prefer not to have that be the first option come training camp.

I suspect something with Staal/Girardi will happen this summer. Klein is a goner, no way he is back after being the 7th option in the postseason. I bet a team like Toronto or Edmonton would give some picks for him.
id do hayes for vatanen as well but thats just me

Rangers in 7 is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 09:50 AM
  #79
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 22,696
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty One View Post
4v5 GF and 5v4 GA count towards +/- only. Shattenkirk is not really a minus on the PP, I assure you

14 EN GA over two seasons doesn't seem outrageous. Yandle had 9 last season by mid-March when I pulled this data:

Very interesting!

I have never seen anyone point this impact out before.

Ola is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 09:55 AM
  #80
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 22,696
vCash: 500
Good left Ds are growing on trees out there. I've seen a lot of Borgman, he is a very good prospect. Not (nearly) as ready as Bereglazov, but a very interesting player. Makes a lot of really good plays, but he is also a bit raw. His first year in the SHL, maybe not a late bloomer in terms of how he is built, but he has developed a ton as a player the last 3 years taking huge steps every year. Like this year he has taken his high level play from the 2nd tier division to the SHL more or less straight off, but sometimes when he get tired etc he might lose his positioning a bit, make some illadvised plays etc.

I love Skjei as much as anyone else, but shouldn't we consider moving Skjei straight up fro Trouba? Like if we make that trade, and sign Borgman besides Bereglazov -- Left D would STILL be our strongest position AINEC on the depth chart. RD is our weakest today.

Ola is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 09:55 AM
  #81
SnowFort
Registered User
 
SnowFort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 115
vCash: 500
Random question. Everyone talks about how we need to negotiate with Vegas to not take Lindberg or Fast. But don't the rangers need to resign them this year? Why not wait until after the expansion draft to resign? Then they wouldn't be tied to Vegas and be free to stay with us?

SnowFort is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 09:58 AM
  #82
Geoff Gorden
Fire me
 
Geoff Gorden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 5,992
vCash: 1050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Good left Ds are growing on trees out there. I've seen a lot of Borgman, he is a very good prospect. Not (nearly) as ready as Bereglazov, but a very interesting player. Makes a lot of really good plays, but he is also a bit raw. His first year in the SHL, maybe not a late bloomer in terms of how he is built, but he has developed a ton as a player the last 3 years taking huge steps every year. Like this year he has taken his high level play from the 2nd tier division to the SHL more or less straight off, but sometimes when he get tired etc he might lose his positioning a bit, make some illadvised plays etc.

I love Skjei as much as anyone else, but shouldn't we consider moving Skjei straight up fro Trouba?
No.

I'm not even sure its an upgrade (or much of one) anymore and the salary differences after this year are going to be huge (Trouba will be on contract #3 next summer, Skjei #2.)


Skjei is also showing ability to play in the post season. No need to move him what so ever short of an overpayment.

Geoff Gorden is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 09:59 AM
  #83
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
 
Oscar Lindberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 3,982
vCash: 500
Even though Fast and Lindberg aren't signed they are still able to be chosen in expansion. Anyone that isn't protected can be chosen.

Vegas has to select a certain amount of players who have a contract next year as well

Oscar Lindberg is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 10:12 AM
  #84
Thirty One
k.
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,088
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowFort View Post
Random question. Everyone talks about how we need to negotiate with Vegas to not take Lindberg or Fast. But don't the rangers need to resign them this year? Why not wait until after the expansion draft to resign? Then they wouldn't be tied to Vegas and be free to stay with us?
If they are unsigned and claimed, they would be RFAs and need to be signed to an offer sheet which Las Vegas could match. And chances are Las Vegas would have a lot more cap space. Plus I think there's a rule about players claimed by Vegas not going back to the team they were claimed from for a year.

Thirty One is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 10:16 AM
  #85
haveandare
Registered User
 
haveandare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 11,532
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Good left Ds are growing on trees out there. I've seen a lot of Borgman, he is a very good prospect. Not (nearly) as ready as Bereglazov, but a very interesting player. Makes a lot of really good plays, but he is also a bit raw. His first year in the SHL, maybe not a late bloomer in terms of how he is built, but he has developed a ton as a player the last 3 years taking huge steps every year. Like this year he has taken his high level play from the 2nd tier division to the SHL more or less straight off, but sometimes when he get tired etc he might lose his positioning a bit, make some illadvised plays etc.

I love Skjei as much as anyone else, but shouldn't we consider moving Skjei straight up fro Trouba? Like if we make that trade, and sign Borgman besides Bereglazov -- Left D would STILL be our strongest position AINEC on the depth chart. RD is our weakest today.
I wouldn't move Skjei for much of anything right now, especially not for some handedness issue. We drafted a player who has come in and been absolutely tremendous. He's young, he's inexpensive, and his ceiling is still unknown. He, McD and Smith should be the core of our D going forward.

haveandare is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 10:17 AM
  #86
SnowFort
Registered User
 
SnowFort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 115
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty One View Post
If they are unsigned and claimed, they would be RFAs and need to be signed to an offer sheet which Las Vegas could match. And chances are Las Vegas would have a lot more cap space. Plus I think there's a rule about players claimed by Vegas not going back to the team they were claimed from for a year.
Oh! I forgot the RFA status. Thank you. It all makes more sense now.

SnowFort is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 10:34 AM
  #87
offdacrossbar
draft the BPA
 
offdacrossbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: da cuse
Country: Tuvalu
Posts: 12,735
vCash: 500
any talk of moving brady skjei is lunacy.

signing kevin shattenkirk for 6 years at age 28 isnt ideal but look at it this way, would you sign mcdonough for 6 years at 28 ? they are the same age. i believe you would do that.

6 yrs of shatty give us minimum of 3 or 4 more prime years.

at 28 shatty is exactly the kind of point producer puck mover right handed Dman we covet. he's keith yandle but 3 yrs younger.

hes at 13/45 for 58 this season.

mcdonough has 6/37 for 43

add that to this roster and tell me were not a better team. you cant.

he's NOT a shutdown defender. we have 27 and 42 and 5 for that.

hes NOT an even strength monster but he's an solid 2 way defender who adds skill to the blue line.

what he IS however, is a very good offensive dman who can transport pucks, make passes and play in the offensive zone AND point the PP with a serious shot from the point that teams will need to respect.

its only money and won't require a trade. im NOT for lateral moves. keep skjei and miller.

offdacrossbar is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 10:59 AM
  #88
Amazing Kreiderman
@StatBoy_Steven
 
Amazing Kreiderman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vienna
Country: Austria
Posts: 18,614
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Very interesting!

I have never seen anyone point this impact out before.
Actually, I posted this last year:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazing Kreiderman View Post
The biggest issue is that Skjei could have replaced Staal but he is not able to replace Yandle. While he was not a defensively elite player, the offense Yandle brought, made him one of the most important players on this team. Sure, he was a -4 but people forget Yandle is responsible for our PP improving to the best since Jagr was with us. The offense Yandle brought to the team more than makes up for the defensive lapses. Losing Yandle will hurt more than people think.

I don't use plus-minus to judge a player and here's why:


__________________
"You can't score if you pass,"

- Vince Pedrie
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJqAEM4DVoE/
Amazing Kreiderman is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 11:12 AM
  #89
Thirty One
k.
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,088
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazing Kreiderman View Post
Actually, I posted this last year:
Do you know where to find empty net stats post war on ice?

Thirty One is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 11:14 AM
  #90
Off Sides
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cankickville
Posts: 3,620
vCash: 2727
The +/- stuff is interesting, really I never thought about breaking it down into situation or that EN would have such a big impact.

Not totally sure about adding it up though, PKer are always going to look worse and PP players look better.

I'd think for a large chunk of cap space teams would want a player who can play well in all those situations. Like McD would be always worthy of that top end contract, but the others who are more on the PP or PK side but not both, maybe not worth as big of an investment. Then again there are probably not many McD like players out there.

Off Sides is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 11:28 AM
  #91
Gardner McKay
Global Moderator
You had to be there
 
Gardner McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SoutheastOfDisorder
Country: United States
Posts: 17,258
vCash: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty One View Post
4v5 GF and 5v4 GA count towards +/- only. Shattenkirk is not really a minus on the PP, I assure you

14 EN GA over two seasons doesn't seem outrageous. Yandle had 9 last season by mid-March when I pulled this data:

Can't believe you follow that Jared Sexton guy on twitter. What a huge scrub.

Lindberg is playing the best hockey of his career. I dunno if he can keep it up but he wouldn't be the worst option for the 3rd line if we traded Hayes.

__________________
--If we had no faults of our own, we should not take so much pleasure in noticing those in others. - Francois de La Rochefoucauld
--
Gardner McKay is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 11:41 AM
  #92
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
 
TheTakedown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 10,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
Staal has made himself a priority to be bought out. Since Girardi's deal costs less and ends earlier, keeping him around another year, limiting his ice time and resting him more throughout the year would be acceptable. The problem remains the head coach's willingness to manage him in such a manner. Bereglazov would benefit having Girardi as a partner, as would Graves. Trade Klein and Holden for 3rd/4th round picks. Get McDonagh a legit partner, and make re-signing Smith a priority.

McD/???
Skjei/Smith
Graves/Bereglazov/Girardi
then just buy both of these idiots out. They aren't worth a single cent of what they are being paid.

TheTakedown is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 11:43 AM
  #93
Thirty One
k.
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,088
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
The +/- stuff is interesting, really I never thought about breaking it down into situation or that EN would have such a big impact.

Not totally sure about adding it up though, PKer are always going to look worse and PP players look better.

I'd think for a large chunk of cap space teams would want a player who can play well in all those situations. Like McD would be always worthy of that top end contract, but the others who are more on the PP or PK side but not both, maybe not worth as big of an investment. Then again there are probably not many McD like players out there.
Yeah, I don't like adding them all up either. I think you should compare ES to ES, PP to PP, PK to PK.

Not too many McDonagh type players become available, through free agency or even trade.

I definitely see the case for not signing Shattenkirk. Whenever you're giving 6-7 years to a late 20s/early 30s players, there's a good chance it's not going to be pretty at the end of it. So you better be pretty sure that the player's going to make a significant impact in the early years. I think that is probably the case with Shattenkirk.

Thirty One is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 12:27 PM
  #94
rangers1314
Registered User
 
rangers1314's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Astoria, NY
Posts: 2,809
vCash: 500
the NYR twitter account has confirmed the Beregalzov signing.

rangers1314 is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 12:32 PM
  #95
Amazing Kreiderman
@StatBoy_Steven
 
Amazing Kreiderman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vienna
Country: Austria
Posts: 18,614
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty One View Post
Do you know where to find empty net stats post war on ice?
Man, I have been looking for a year, but still have not found any. Corsica, hockeyviz, stats.hockeyanalysis... None of them have 6-on-5 or 5-on-6 stats

Amazing Kreiderman is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 12:39 PM
  #96
Mac n Gs
Gorton plz
 
Mac n Gs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Country: United States
Posts: 12,612
vCash: 500
Bear gloves!! (Tawnos gets credit for the name)

Mac n Gs is online now  
Old
04-21-2017, 12:42 PM
  #97
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Da Big Apple
Country: United States
Posts: 13,463
vCash: 500
something to chew on:

1. McD 4.7 reduced 1.7 to 3+ Zuc 4.5 reduced 1.5 to 3 + Halverson 772,500 = 6.7+
for
Sam Reinhart 894,167 + expiring EKane 5.26 + Wild 2017 2nd + Buf 2017 2nd and 2018 1st = 7.1+

Cap virtually =. Rangers eat 3 in cap hit for 2 yrs but avoid taking back a bad salary and max picks in return. Rangers get potential 1C stud still on ELC, possibly ready to bust out. Kane useful. Sabes get stud 1LD they need and versatile legit scorer, and move out any potential challenge to Eichel status as top dog = no controversy, instant productivity results. Win-win


2. Buchnevich .925 for ELC for Dumba 2.55 and Rangers have the right to flip positions with first round picks for the next 2 available drafts both teams have those firsts, ie, 2018 and 2019.
Rangers eat a tiny bit more cap here, but get a solid puck mover RD and ability to move up in draft for next two first rounders after this. Minny is partially hand tied to options, and not clear if they get a better offer while still dealing with entry level draft. While Buch was 3rd round selection, he clearly would be first rounder if redrafted, no questions he comes to NHL, etc; Dumba was 7OA, not too shabby. Talented youngster for same. Minny pays for ELC value pre exp draft; but as only swap of pick placement, and not surrender of a pick, that is doable.

3. Buy out Staal. If he is willing to relent and give up NMC/NTC immunity, then try to trade him where he wants to go as a courtesy/appreciation for all he did. Market for him is not likely, esp. pre exp. draft, so assume buyout.

4. Girardi as soon as possible, trade. If nec wait until his NMC officially morphs into NTC, but if Danny boy may be amenable to move earlier if he is told this is writing on the wall and yield earlier. Return in assets not paramount, attempt to minimize cap eaten and cost paid. Expect a cap dweller will take 4th round picks for each year of his deal remaining and eat most of the cap at cost of 7th.

5 Sign Shatenkirk, but only one year at 7.25, with player’s option for 7.0 2nd year. No NMC, limited NTC. Shatty wants to prove he is worth [so he can get] HUGE $ long term, and getting this higher payment for 1-2 years with high flying solid F group helps his cause. Rangers do not overcommit.

6. Trade Stepan for best offer before his NMC kicks in. Not clear what that is, but Rangers can eliminate Montreal, it is likely, as announcers have ballyhooed, that NY much stronger in pivot was a factor. I could see Stepan for ELC McCarron, MaxPax, and, if not a 1st this year or next, then 2 2nds for sure instead of that first.

7. Nash. Like how he has stepped up this playoff so far. However, we can’t afford him at 7.8. I see SJ can juggle and takes him to incentivize Thornton to stay, esp if Marleau books. Firm about Sharks eating most of that whole 7.8 nut, and ELC RD Julius Bergman returning. Would like a 2nd also, some flexibility there.

8. If possible, EKane at 3 for the one year, reduced by 2.5 for Vatanen. NY would have a small add due to 2 extra years length term for Sami V. Ana plays hardball, and does not do straight up, but I can go this far. Let’s assume this is the case.

9. Raanta/+ to highest bidder.

10. Move Tambellinni, Kovacs, Stromwall for fresh picks.

11 Extend Smith, 3 years, 10 m. Clause, conditional: IF he is traded, NYR pays him 2 mil bonus.


Result

Kreider - Miller - Zib
McCarron - Reinhart - MaxPax
Grabner- Hayes - Vesey
Nieves* - Lindberg - Fast

ELC protected: Reinhart, McCarron, Vesey, Nieves
8 protected Kreider, Miller, Zib, Hayes, MaxPax, Grabner, Lindberg, Fast
require to expose Puempel, Glass

Skjei - Shattenkirk
Graves - Dumba
Smith - Vats
draft fodder: Holden, Klein

Hank, Hellberg (until Huska is ready)

survive draft, deadwood moved, lots of picks added!

bernmeister is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 12:48 PM
  #98
Thirty One
k.
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,088
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
TRADES
I'm impressed you didn't move Stepan until step 6. No idea why Montreal moves Pacioretty++ for him though.

Player options aren't a thing anymore, and you can't pay a bonus if a player is traded. The CBA is not as creative as you.

Thirty One is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 12:51 PM
  #99
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 22,696
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Gorden View Post
No.

I'm not even sure its an upgrade (or much of one) anymore and the salary differences after this year are going to be huge (Trouba will be on contract #3 next summer, Skjei #2.)


Skjei is also showing ability to play in the post season. No need to move him what so ever short of an overpayment.
I don't think it's an upgrade either. Heck I like Skjei so much I even would considering trading McD too. But for me it's no little handidness issue. We have no RDs on the team or in the system. There are so many good LDs out there, almost none RDs...

Ola is offline  
Old
04-21-2017, 12:54 PM
  #100
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 17,424
vCash: 500
I'm willing to move Stepan for Azona's 2017 1st rounder and our 2nd we gave up for Yandle.

jas is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:29 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.