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Patrick Roy- could he have played one more year?

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Old
04-20-2017, 03:49 AM
  #1
ChrisK97
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Patrick Roy- could he have played one more year?

Looking back in retrospect, I honestly was very surprised when Roy announced his retirement after 2002-03.

He was only one year removed from probably his best season in Colorado- and with all due respect to Iginla/Theodore, he would have gotten my votes for the Hart and Vezina.


That 2002-03 season was not exactly a big dip from the prior year:

35-15-13, 2.18 GAA, .920 save percentage

Was an All-Star: heck, he won the goaltenders competition of All-Star Saturday

Led Colorado on a major post-Christmas tear to steal the division title from Vancouver

If anything, I would have thought that after blowing that 3-1 series lead and the OT losses to Minnesota, Roy would have wanted to redeem himself given how fiercely competitive he was as a goalie.

He was 37, but that wasn't exactly ancient by goalie standards- remember, Belfour was only one year younger that season and he had a Vezina caliber season (and he had a fine year at the age of 37 himself).

And also remember Brodeur's last playoff hurrah was at the age of 40. Heck, even one of his felllw goalie GOAT's Hasek was still able to goaltend well. Heck, he was 39 going on 40 when he was with Ottawa for that one season.

Considering the impending 2004 lockout doomsday and the all-in feel that season had, could you have seen Roy going all out for one last Cup hurrah with the Kariya-Selanne all-in gamble before calling it quits?

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04-20-2017, 04:11 AM
  #2
Michael Whiteacre
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I say Patrick Roy would've helped carry Paul Kariya and Teemu Selanne to a Cup, instead of having to put David Aebischer out there as Colorado's top goalie when Roy retired at the conclusion of '02-'03.

Kariya did okay for Colorado despite being injury prone, but Selanne proved to be a disappointment because he's only good for offense, which Colorado didn't allow him to be an offensive-minded guy on ice like Winnipeg and Anaheim allowed him to be in his early career. Put the defensive gameplay shackles on Selanne, and you'll create a potential troublemaker in him because he won't care to play defense.

Having Patrick Roy carry the talented Finnish winger to a Cup would have done wonders, but Selanne eventually won a Cup in '06-'07 with Anaheim as a rejuvenated RW who finally got his chronic knee problems sorted out by the time the lockout ended in 2005. Selanne was never right for Colorado with his chronic knee pains, and Tony Granato could've shied away from Selanne but went through with signing Paul Kariya.

Kariya wasn't that bad in Colorado, everyone.

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04-20-2017, 08:06 AM
  #3
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He was hurting pretty badly at that point, so unless Colorado was defending a Stanley Cup championship from 2003, there wasn't much incentive to return for 2004. I don't know that he makes a difference in that San Jose matchup anyway. But he could still go (22-4-4, .939 in his final 30 games to take the division title). It may have been detrimental to his quality of life after hockey to do so, and by his own admission, he could tell it was the end during the Minnesota series.

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04-20-2017, 08:34 AM
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Bonzai12
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I remember when he retired that I thought it was time for him to hang em up

His play had been declining somewhat - it was noticeable.

We watch so many guys that hang on for years and years to break records or collect more money or whatever. I actually give hats off to Roy that he went out with dignity. A lot of athletes don't, so it's hard to criticize guys who decide to leave the game before taking their last gasp of athletic livelihood. I didn't want to watch him play until 40 or until he was 25% of the goalie he once was.

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04-20-2017, 08:40 AM
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The Panther
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I was kinda surprised when he retired then, too. Certainly he could still deliver the mail then.

Remember, though, that age 38 for a guy who had a bunch of deep playoff runs as the undisputed top guy (and Roy had had about eight by 2003) is more wearing than for guy who barely made the playoffs every year. Those eight deep runs are probably the equivalent of one or two extra seasons on Roy.


Off-topic, but has anyone read the bio of Roy? Despite the cheesy title, I was thinking about reading it until I saw that Roy's Dad wrote it.

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04-20-2017, 09:20 AM
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quoipourquoi
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Originally Posted by The Panther View Post
Off-topic, but has anyone read the bio of Roy? Despite the cheesy title, I was thinking about reading it until I saw that Roy's Dad wrote it.
I read the English version. My French isn't perfect, so I haven't tried Le Guerrier yet which is a much better title. It's pretty solid, and Michel made a point to focus more on media reports and interviews to tell the story of the on-ice performance and the insight as an immediate family member to dive into the off-ice portion.

Worth a read, for sure.

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04-20-2017, 09:28 AM
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Jaromir Blogger
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I think he could have kept on going and made an impact. He was declining, but he still had some gas left in the tank. I think he just felt it was the right time to bow out, and to his credit, he did so before he became washed up.

Is there a good thread that does an in-depth examination of Colorado's decline in the 00's?

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04-20-2017, 02:55 PM
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BraveCanadian
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Yeah I'm sure he could have if had wanted to... I think it was a little similar to Denis Potvin though in that he didn't want to be the veteran hoping a rebuild would happen in time to contend before he personally declined (which he already was starting to).

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04-20-2017, 07:42 PM
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He was still great in terms of performance, but his hips had been causing him problems for years and were getting worse. Hip trouble is apparently endemic to butterfly goaltending, and who played more games in that style than Roy?

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04-21-2017, 09:47 AM
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vadim sharifijanov
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it's an interesting question, what could have been in '04. injuries are probably still injuries (to kariya and forsberg, and selanne is still hobbled), and i think we all know that there is no way roy would not come back to try to avenge giving up a 3-1 series lead to a lowly expansion team unless his body said no. if not for how the detroit series went the year prior (the embarrassing game 6 gaffe and then getting shelled in game 7), i doubt he even would have come back for the '03 season.

but as a thought experiment, the idea in '04 was the boys would handle themselves. they were all superstars, they all had been around for a while, except i guess tanguay and aebischer, four of them had been captains of other teams (and forsberg and foote were future captains), and so they hired a country club coach (granato) because i don't think lacroix thought the team needed a coach. of course it did, and granato was in way over his head. part of that i think is you lost a lot of veteran presence when bourque retired after '01, you lost keane, drury, guys like that, and it wasn't really as much of a veteran team as you'd think. and maybe roy would have been the one to take control of that room, put granato (and everyone else) in his place, and will that team to its potential. or maybe not, but aebischer was more than fine that year; the team didn't necessarily need an aging roy in the crease, at least not to the degree that it would have made a difference on the year. but they maybe did need him in the room and behind the scenes.

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04-21-2017, 10:17 AM
  #11
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Good point, vadim. Lemieux, Deadmarsh, Bourque, Keane, and Roy - that's a lot of leadership heading in the wrong direction every season. ESPN isn't exactly HBO, but did their two-part series on the 2004 Colorado Avalanche give any indication that the team was lacking that element? Going down 0-3 to San Jose is probably uncharacteristic enough.

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04-22-2017, 04:54 AM
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Jaromir Blogger
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Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
Good point, vadim. Lemieux, Deadmarsh, Bourque, Keane, and Roy - that's a lot of leadership heading in the wrong direction every season.
Agreed 100%. Bourque and Roy (i.e. the big names) aside, I always got the impression that Mike Keane in particular was one of the most important leaders on that squad. He just seemed to bring a little extra glue to the room, or whatever you want to call it. His inclusion in the Roy deal always struck me as one of the most underrated strokes of genius in Lacroix's heyday dealings. I think Keane was a not-insignificant part of what put the Avs over the top in 96.

And agreed re: everyone else you mentioned.

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04-22-2017, 10:31 AM
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tony d
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It was an awful way for Roy to go out though. Got to think that 2004 Avs team with Roy in net could have done a bit more damage had he been there.

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04-26-2017, 07:51 PM
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Big Phil
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I'm not saying it hurts his legacy, but one of the slowest skaters in the NHL - Andrew Brunette - was allowed to walk right into the lip of his crease and pull a fast move on him and thus eliminating the Avs and then Roy for good. Not the way you want to see a legend go out, but either way, I'll tell you, 2003 was funny that way, if the Avs won that game, or any of the two previous ones, they could have won the Cup. The 2nd round would have been the same with Dallas/Anaheim but it would have been Colorado/Vancouver. I think the Avs win that series for sure and while Giguere was hot I think the Avs would have taken out the Ducks.

The Avs had Blake, Foote and Morris on defense. Sakic and Forsberg are there and Tanguay and Hejduk are the top wingers. I'll admit it gets a little thin on the wing after that, but this is where Sakic and Forsberg step up. If you have that 1-2 punch at center the sky is the limit. So I don't see how they can't win the Cup in 2003 and if Roy returns then even 2004.

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04-26-2017, 08:26 PM
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MadLuke
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Originally Posted by Michael Whiteacre View Post
instead of having to put David Aebischer out there as Colorado's top goalie when Roy retired at the conclusion of '02-'03.
Would he has been a big step up over 2003/2004 Aebischer ?

Aebisher had a .924 save percentage is full first season after Roy retirement, better than Roy last season, and he was at .922 in those playoff, better than Roy 2001/02 and 2002/03 playoff performance.

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04-26-2017, 09:43 PM
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FrozenJagrt
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I always felt that if Roy thought anyone would actually threaten his records, he might have stuck around a bit longer to put them out of reach. He seemed like that kind of guy.

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04-27-2017, 07:56 AM
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vadim sharifijanov
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I always felt that if Roy thought anyone would actually threaten his records, he might have stuck around a bit longer to put them out of reach. He seemed like that kind of guy.
he most certainly was that kind of guy. i distinctly remember that he announced his retirement during the 2003 finals, while two french-canadian goalies were the big stars. talk at the time was he wanted to upstage those two younger rivals.

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04-27-2017, 01:01 PM
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while Giguere was hot I think the Avs would have taken out the Ducks.
Colorado only managed 6 goals in their final 3 games in blowing a 3-1 series lead vs Minnesota. Given that I don`t see them doing any better vs Anaheim. The Duck`s and Giguere did shutdown two top 10 offenses (Detroit, Dallas) on their run to the finals.

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04-27-2017, 01:14 PM
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Mike Farkas
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Both had similar defensive structure. Giguere was the easiest goalie of the group to advanced scout for...advanced scouting combined with their offensive talent, I would put my money on Colorado too...

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04-27-2017, 02:41 PM
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Burnaby Joe
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He was still a great goalie when he retired. He's not the type of guy to keep playing and be a decent goalie, ala Brodeur. There's no doubt in my mind Roy would have more wins than Brodeur if he kept playing.

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04-27-2017, 04:27 PM
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Mike Farkas
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Is Roy playing til Jagr's age...?

I'm not looking at the numbers but wasn't Roy at 551 and Brodeur ended up at like 675 or so? It's not like Roy retired young, he played for 17 or 18 seasons...

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04-27-2017, 04:29 PM
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MadLuke
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He was still a great goalie when he retired. He's not the type of guy to keep playing and be a decent goalie, ala Brodeur. There's no doubt in my mind Roy would have more wins than Brodeur if he kept playing.
Brodeur has 140 more wins, it is a lot.

If Roy would have got 34 win a year (a possible but high number for him), he would have needed a bit more than 4 seasons, considering that you have a lock out were he cannot play, that push him 5 year's at around 43 year old's, that is a lot, considering how much he played in is life.

It is possible, Hasek had the same age and won 101 game after Roy retirement, while playing only 14 games in 2003-2004, but even him a goaltender with a weird long longevity of excellence didn't do what Roy needed to do.

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04-27-2017, 07:44 PM
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Sadekuuro
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Is Roy playing til Jagr's age...?

I'm not looking at the numbers but wasn't Roy at 551 and Brodeur ended up at like 675 or so? It's not like Roy retired young, he played for 17 or 18 seasons...
If memory serves, he had also played way more playoff games than anyone (goaltender or otherwise) else when he retired.

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04-27-2017, 08:06 PM
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Jaromir Blogger
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Yeah, I kind of get the impression that basically every decision Roy makes was (and is) ultimately about his ego, for better or worse. That's illustrative of the drive that made him such an incredible goalie and brilliant clutch performer, but I agree with the idea that if there had been some ego-related reason for him to keep playing, he would have. And there was almost no way in hell that he would've hung up his skates following the -02 WCF Game 7 debacle.

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04-27-2017, 09:41 PM
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bobholly39
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Originally Posted by FrozenJagrt View Post
I always felt that if Roy thought anyone would actually threaten his records, he might have stuck around a bit longer to put them out of reach. He seemed like that kind of guy.
Your reasoning is sound but your conclusion is wrong.

Roy absolutely did/does care about his legacy. But I doubt he cares all that much about longevity records such as career wins. To him it's always been more about actually winning.

He probably thought his level of play was declining slightly and so decided to retire. He couldn't stand the idea of playing without being the absolute best goalie in the world (or just about).


In retrospect I think he may have made the right call. Go out on top - why not?


As to the OP - of course he could have played longer. He was 1 year removed from his best season ever. He could have lasted 3-4 more years if he really wanted to but would have started to decline

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